The reason the mori nerf was so simple
We all already know what they changed to mori's but i keep seeing people complaining about it being lazy, unfair, or whatever. Truth is this was the safest and honestly best option they could have done. It also is balance wise fine, Mori's were too strong they alone won killers games if abused even just once in a trial, a nerf is better than no nerf. I'm sure the devs wanted to do something more creative and i also wasn't expecting it to be this simple but simply increasing the number of hooks doesn't add any way for either side to exploit it, it makes it more fair to individual survivors, and it limits how severe a killer can tunnel. The best part about this is that it makes games play out more normal and it decreases the amount of DC's from players seeing a secret offering, unless your power hungry you can really only complain about how uncreative this nerf was.
Now Mori's are an offering, offerings are simple they do one thing and one thing only. If Mori's where to stay as an offering than no idea, rework, or added restrictions were likely to be put on it in the first place since it would complicate them. This is not my personal opinion ask yourself if you really think the devs would make a offering have a similar description as a perk wither it be a bunch of restrictions or requirements for it to work. If your with me on that it's easy to see them not doing any kind of changes like that.
Also any idea that made Mori's baskit in some way also had no chance of being considered without at least a lot of changes to balance it out. Some people disagree mainly all you who are yelling how useless they are now but Mori's ignore all game mechanics that prevent a survivor from dying other than having to down them, meaning they have no protection after you get them on last hook even if it's right after they get unhooked. Mori's being basekit would basically buff killers across the board, increase tunneling, and make already stronger killers more unbearable not to mention take away cone heads specialness and while i'm all for killer buffs that is not the way to do it.
Lastly as for those who will respond by saying "they don't listen to the community look at all the idea's" Your right they often don't take our feedback seriously and a lot of idea's even good ones die and get swept away however most idea's are awful, exploitable, or too complicated when it is about mori's. This was the only reasonable nerf that made it more fair to each individual while also limiting mori's power. If you think you have a better change to mori's post it let's hear it and compare it to this simple nerf.
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Agreed with all you said. Mori's were way too strong. And in the hands of a good killer, absolutely devastating to go against. If there are other strong perks in the game, slugging, and tunneling you would be lucky to get anymore than 5k BP for a match and back into waiting 5-10 minutes in survivor queue depending on your region.
I'm glad BHVR listened. Many of us wanted this change for all Mori's to be death hook. The only change I'd make now would be to remove Cypress and make that base kit for all killers.
Survivor side, Keys do need to be dealt with next they are also strong especially in SWF. The only balance I could see them doing would be to re-open closed hatches and maybe open hatch only when all gens are completed. If they removed the ability to open hatch altogether with a key, I'd be fine with that since the keys do have some aura reading which is fun to use.
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yeah cypress being base kit is the only base kit mori i would accept, there are very few situations where you wouldn't have escaped if it was base kit and i'm pretty sure they all involve DS.
I disagree in keys tho when it comes to your proposed changes and from the mod responses mentioning animations as a reason it will take longer for a key rework to release im pretty sure they will make hatch require time to open. Keys/hatch are not like mori's the devs can be complicated when it comes to changing them since it involves an escape route and in game interactions. Also making it so once hatch is opened it can be reopened would cause a lot of problems since the killer wouldn't risk leaving it.
Like keys can be balanced and allow survivors to escape before all gens get done, there are plenty of idea's out there for it and the devs could completely rework keys as they do it (which is what i'm expecting). All we have to hope for is that it is actually balanced.
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The people complaining about mories nerfsa are the ones that used in almost every match. I'm very happy that they nerf that broken stuff. Finally the players will need to put more skill and effort to their games. Now it's time for the keys 😈😈😈😈😈
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I personally just liked the idea of you have to hook every survivor once since itd kill tunnel mori for the most part. This just makes the survivor get tunneled longer in my opinion. But yeah agreed i wont fully weigh in until we see what they do with keys. If they "kill" moris but like slap on the wrist keys then yeah. Also mori basekit was already tested with ph.
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That is his power that has to have a survivor inflected with torment and it is already a strat to not use cages so you can kill them quickly with the mori by tunneling them off hook. He kinda shows why they shouldn't be base kit if anything, like imagine a mobility killer doing that or just do it yourself it would be awful/is awful.
As for that idea it is both exploitable by survivors and in part the killer. A single survivor can hide or play safe all game and good swf's apply so much pressure that you often won't see one of the survivors until late into the game. meanwhile a good killer against mediocre or even decent survivors can get the mori to activate a lot quicker. there is a disparity between solo's and swf as well as exploitation for the survivors.
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The problem is it feels lazy and weirdly rushed for something that could have done in the last 3 years. And still no change to keys since the first mori nerf. They obviously spent more time on working on generator animations then trying to fix keys. Good Priorities.
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Mori wasn't too strong.....it was perfectly fine. :(
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There were so many better options. This was the laziest thing they could have done. While it's better now than it used to be, what's utterly ridiculous is the rarity of an offering that has been reduced to an aesthetic. If it's not actually going to help, then the rarities should be brown, yellow, and green.
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Despite the mori nerf being extremely lazy which sucks, I'd be ok with it if keys get the same treatment.
I swear, if they eventually change keys and it'll be only minor tweaks and not complete annihilation (deserved one at that) allowing usefulness in only a few edge cases as now mories have, it'll be even bigger disappointment.
At this point I think they might even completely remove both and nobody would miss either.
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I would be fine if both where removed and Mori's just became part of base killer kit the way they are now. (Since they offer very very very few mechanical benefits, which makes them worthless.)
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provide one
I haven't seen a single suggestion that is as fair as simply increasing the amount of hooks needed.
is it boring? yes, would i want something else if it was better of course but so far i haven't seen such a idea in all my time in these forums.
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dude that would literally take away a 1/3 of all save opportunities survivors have, i don't think you understand how much of a buff that would be to killers across the board which isn't needed. Killer buffs should be per individual killer unless it's regarding early gen times.
it also buffs tunneling/proxy camping which was what mori's and PH are currently good at. It's just not good for balance or game health.
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Its not just boring, it makes it a worthless offering. And there is a great suggestion of requiring every survivor to have been hooked once, and then the more will be activated, or at least get a charge. That seems fine to me, doesn't encourage tunneling, and keeps the offering worthwhile.
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My suggestion was as follows:
Red Mori
4 Hook = 1 Mori unlocked. *It can be used on anyone whether they have been hooked or not.
*Each additional Hook unlocks one more Mori. This would encourage Survivors to make the shoulder saves (sabotage, flashlights, pallets, etc.) because preventing hooks also protects them.
Green Mori
4 Hooks unlocks the single Mori. *I can be used on anyone whether they have been hooked or not. Again, this would encourage saves.
Yellow Mori
It stays the same way as it is now.
This method, while certainly not as EASY as swapping a (1) for a (2) would have been dynamic, balanced the Mori, and encouraged more interactive play. It would not have invalidated all the BP spent on the various Mori over time. You will note that my method requires only one less Hook than the current one.
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How would you feel about changing keys such that they just allow one person to escape? In other words, if you use a key, the hatch opens and then shuts right behind you. That way you couldn't really exploit it in a SWF and would pretty much only be useful in an EGC/closed hatch scenario. If one survivor with a key uses it before then, they'd probably doom their remaining team members.
I think this would be decent from a balance perspective, but I'm curious how this would impact the "Where did they go?!" achievement. So long as that's possible to get with four keys I think this is okay. Still easier than "From the void she kills".
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I think that Keys should get EXACTLY the same treatment the Mori (unfortunately) got. That is to say making them largely pointless. I think Keys should be changed to only being able to open the hatch after all Generators are powered. You no longer have to open the Gates, you can use the key. That would give them about the same niche effectiveness left to the Mori.
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There are problems with that. The first is that it can be under the survivors control by having one hide more and play safe as they do gens, also against good swf's it's actually not uncommon to not see one of the survivors until the near end of the game. Meanwhile if the killer is good and the survivors can't keep up the killer can get the mori very easy which makes it no different then if it wasn't nerfed in the first pace. Remember Mori's needed a nerf not a restriction that situationally is either too easy to overcome or you wont be able to overcome it because a survivor is trying harder to stay out of the way and in a swf that is pretty easy to do when you know where the killer is.
Again the simply and boring nerf the devs went with was the best one. it didn't introduce any exploitations for either side, made it more fair per individual, and nerfed it in a meaningful way that helped the health of the game.
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That makes it less fair per individual and it can be used unfairly such as getting 2 survivors on death hook before killing a survivor you haven't hooked yet. Also it's not hard to avoid saves as the killer it will just result in the killer getting into another chase faster.
We don't need to encourage saves that are impossible to pull off most of the time against a good killer anyway without throwing the match. Also compared to the simple boring nerf the devs gave us your idea has too many flaws and it wouldn't be likely to be used since it isn't fair per individual and is more complex than the devs would be willing to add since they want offerings to be simple.
Like i said i haven't seen a creative suggestion without flaws, the mori nerf the devs gave us has no flaws it's just a straight up nerf which is what mori's needed.
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Mori nerf was a lot easier to do because all they needed to change was how many hooks it required. Keys need a lot more work put towards them to change them. it's already been said by multiple mods here. Idk why people do not understand that.
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I think keys need this kind of change, just read the first part no need to read my whole rework. What it needs is for the killer to be able to stop and find hatch anything resembling instant escapes are unfair and as for your question i would be against it since it screws the other survivors and if it starts EGC it will be broken still since they just bypassed the gens and if there are still 2 in a trial at least 1 will escape.
Edit: also obviously any values can be changed if needed but i think im close to it being pretty fair at least when it comes to opening the hatch.
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I see where you're coming from, but keys are in the item slot, not the offering slot. Unlike offerings, items are typically very useful in the match. A change like this would make keys useless compared to the rest of the items in the game, which I don't think is fair.
I wouldn't be opposed to turning keys into an offering, like imagine a purple offering that automatically opens the hatch once the exit gates are powered (perhaps for X seconds, if that's too strong), regardless of how many survivors are left. If they're going to stay in the item slot, though, I think they need to be able to actually be useful.
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Yes but in the Item slot they have OTHER uses too based on other Add-on(s). They retain that just fine. It is just the escape part that I'm talking about nerfing the SAME as the Mori.
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Key add ons are mostly useless, though. The Blood Ember is situational but occasionally useful and the wedding ring is actually quite solid in solo queue. Other than that they're all terrible. If the add-ons were worthwhile on their own we'd see more broken keys in matches. All other items are useful without add-ons, even maps (although that's a bit map dependent).
Edit: No pun intended
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So here we go. :) You guys are just fine making the Mori almost entirely pointless but adverse to doing the Keys the SAME way.
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This wouldn't start the EGC, though. Per the wiki, the EGC only starts when a gate is opened or when the hatch is closed by the killer; in theory this doesn't meet that criteria. I see the potential for selfish survivors screwing their teammates, but I don't think it's really any worse than the current system; it's already rare that solos will coordinate well enough to have everyone gather at the hatch, and on the flip side it's unlikely that a person in a SWF with this updated key would leave their SWF mates behind.
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That's not at all true. The Mori should not be impactful specifically because it is an offering. It should be as strong as the likes of Murky Reagents, Rotten Oaks, Salty Lips, and the like: that is to say, not very. Keys should be impactful and stronger than Moris because they are items. They should be as strong as Ranger Medkits, Utility Flashlights, Alex's Toolboxes, and the like.
Items are almost always generally useful. Offerings are almost always fairly useless and niche.
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The Key does the same thing the Mori does, it provides an easy escape where the Mori provided easy kills. It needs the SAME Nerf. You can still use it for other things.
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Moris provide almost a guaranteed 3k + hatch or 4k in a fair match. They impact every match in which the killer is not matched with survivors that are much better than them. Ebony Moris were the single strongest loadout item in the entire game.
Keys can certainly provide easier escapes, and they're therefore strong, but it's usually for just one survivor, and even then it's a minority of matches. Keys are irrelevant if the survivors win easily. Keys are irrelevant if the key is lost or disappears before it can be used (e.g. Franklin's or stashing it because of Franklin's). Keys are irrelevant if the last survivor escapes through the open hatch.
Keys also have many counters. Franklin's (especially with Hoarder), defending gens so that the hatch doesn't even spawn until there's one survivor left, tunneling/camping the person with the key (especially after the hatch spawns), or even dodging the lobby since you can see it before the match starts.
Old Moris had no counters. If matchmaking was fair, it was a 3k + hatch or 4k the overwhelming majority of the time. Keys might be able to salvage a 2k if the killer is slow with the first kill, but that's irrelevant because you can't bring a key to counter a Mori; the match is already loading by the time you can even suspect there's a Mori. You can't even dodge the lobby for the same reason.
Old Moris changed the progression of the match substantially. The second the first survivor gets Mori'd it's almost always a guaranteed 3k + hatch or 4k and the survivors are forced to just suffer a long, slow spiral to defeat. Meanwhile, keys would have almost no bearing on the match until the hatch spawns, and matches often end within seconds of a key being used.
As I said above, keys are often irrelevant, or at best the difference between a 4k and 1k/2k/3k in a minority of matches. They are not an automatic 0k/1k even if survivors bring four of them, which is what they'd have to be in order to be close to as strong as old Moris.
Still, the most important point of all is that Moris are offerings and keys are items. They are not meant to be the same strength. To be consistent with the rest of the game's balance, keys should be clearly stronger than Moris.
I do think that keys should be nerfed. They bother enough people that it would clearly benefit the game. They should still be useful if they're going to stay in the item slot, though, and especially at their current rarities.
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So your logic is because they bother people they should be left the way they are? Sony don’t we revert Moris back to the way they where for the same reason?
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Did you misread my comment by chance? I said specifically that I do think keys should be nerfed.
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Again, they have plenty of ways to be useful aside from opening Black Locks, and would still retain that ability if it was done the way I suggest. They simply cannot use it until all the Generators are done. That is not unlike not being able to Mori someone until they have been hooked twice (or reached the 2nd Stage). The Key would STILL allow you to leave immediately, and not have to wait for the End Game Collapse, but you would have to get those Generators up.
On the plus side, you would have fewer people giving up on Generators just because they would rather wait for their teammates to sacrifice out. They still need to work those last Generators to make the Hatch appear (or be able to unlock it). Problem solved.
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You put more thought and time into your post then they did coding the change to mori's. Tell me why, specifically, you think adding basekit mori's after 2nd hook would make killer's unbalanced. I'd really like to hear a thought out argument against that.
The upside to mori on third hook is it limits decisive strike, a reasonable nerf to DS is something that all killer mains have been asking for. The down side to not hooking on third is you don't gain the aura from BBQ. One final upside, perhaps the biggest, making mori's base kit so killers are no longer blocked on the blood web by being forced to buy offerings they don't want to use. Sounds pretty damn fair and a positive change to me.
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Yep I did; I apologize. :(
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Your suggestion would make them basically useless, unfortunately. I'm fine with changing them such that they don't open black locks by the way, but they do need to actually be useful in non-niche situations. This effect should not be like being able to Mori someone until they have been hooked twice. It should be substantially stronger than that because keys are in the item slot. They should be as strong as other very rare / ultra rare items.
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It's all good, no worries! :)
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This is an easy fix..reture these offerings and make them base but much as deviousness tracks killer power usage , add a trigger that if the killer fulfills a certain requirement via their power use then they unlock death hook moris as a reward for an honest well played match , can't abuse it of the restrictions require multiple survivors for said requirements and the power boost would be so minimal it wouldn't even matter as pyramid head proves as he's not even top despite his built in mori..amazing how I had this idea months ago and even shared it here tagging devs and all..even shared it to mclean and I had no complaints from any party involved..there was no excuse for this change to be lacking so much
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"Now Mori's are an offering, offerings are simple they do one thing and one thing only. If Mori's where to stay as an offering than no idea, rework, or added restrictions were likely to be put on it in the first place since it would complicate them. This is not my personal opinion ask yourself if you really think the devs would make a offering have a similar description as a perk wither it be a bunch of restrictions or requirements for it to work. If your with me on that it's easy to see them not doing any kind of changes like that."
But that's the missed opportunity we are speaking of. Especially Killer offerings have the big advantage, that there is always only one. And it has the opportunity to be quite game changing. That's what Moris always did. Even the change didn't completely nullify it.
The big question is, what you want offerings to be. Blood point wasters, blood point boosters or something far more interesting. I had a suggestion for the Ebony Mori as well. And the core idea was that it could change the general progress a killer makes from beeing per survivor towards a complete linear one with a Token system. It might sound complicated. As complicated as a perk, but it would provide an interesting way that should make it keep interesting for both sides. And that was only one example.
In their new form they seem balanced and they slightly might give the killer something. But that benefit comes with downsides as well like a long Mori animation and not benefitting from hook perks, when using a Mori. And most likely, it's not exciting. The cheer to see the killers Animation just wears off e.g.
That's why I dislike that simple change in the way it's done. Especially because it could have been done much earlier. And the fact that the Cypress Mori stays as it is. I truelly hoped/expected the Devs to adress such an unused offering, when adressing Moris in general. And I don't believe that it was the reasonable change. Not a bad one, but it opened it's own can of worms like how it effects Emblems, bloodpoint gain etc. It's not worth it in it current state and it's not what the Devs claimed, when they talked about Moris and Keys beeing changed in a way to keep them fun and interesting. That's not what happened with Moris. Just a simple and strict nerf. Like I said before.
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making an item useless is something different than making an offering useless. the hatch mechanic needs a big change, but the aura part should definitely stay and probably get a rework to make keys useful without addons in any way.
I also disagree with the mori change and that there were a lot of more creative solutions, but it is definitely more helathy for the game.
And regarding the argument that it should have been changed along with keys: the same happened to gen/toolbox speed nerfs and Hex:Ruin. SO Id say this is common. Just thinking about a case where the survivor side has been nerfed first and then adjust the killer side
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Except that it would NOT make them useless. It would make unlocking the Black Locks much more limited (just like the Mori). It would allow someone another way out after the Generators are up, but the End Game Collapse hasn't started. This can be great if you are trying to avoid NOED. The Killer is probably headed to the gates. The Key can STILL have the other Add-Ons to do OTHER things. That is how most Items work, you take them and add-on. Nothing about that will change for the Key by my suggestion. I'm just talking about nuking the ability to for an EASY escape in the same way they nuked the easy Kills.
Heck, I don't even mind if the Hatch still becomes visible (so people can find it early) based on the current formula. I just don't think you should be able to unlock it until all the Generators are up.
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I was referring to your statement "That is to say making them largely pointless" but you didn't restrict it to "the hatch unlock ability" to be largely pointless. which I disagree with. That's why I pointed out to leave the aura reading untouched. Your change suggestion regarding hatch mechanic is ok.
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If mori's are basekit it would affect killers across the board, as you know the devs won't limit a base game mechanic from a character because it would be too good for them which means god nurses, spirits, or whatever killer you hate/ is strong will have access to them. Now they are strong because as i said idk how many times it cuts save opportunities by a third and allows for easier tunneling. Say what you want but that is a simple truth and we do not need to do that simply because DS exists which btw isn't a problem at least in terms of how it directly interacts with the killer. As for perk interaction it is very much worth it to bypass DS and potential saves to not have a hook perk activate, unless you are wasting time slugging until it is safe to pick them up you wouldn't be able to use the hook anyway and whatever gen you could have protected will get done.
DS is meant to hinder tunneling and is effective at it, take a look at how a good player uses PH's final judgement ability and why it is considered very useful. That ability lets you kill off a survivor on their last hook and ignores DS that alone makes it good, it doesn't matter if it would be faster to use a hook with DS you can't use a hook if you tunnel anyway but mori's and final judgement bypass that.
DS is fair with it's interaction with the killer yes even if used with lockers, your taking that stun you could have avoided and even if it is used in EGC you should have went for the savior. the problem with DS is that you can work on gens with it active and have a minute of immunity with UB, DS itself isn't problematic in any other area and is very avoidable by simply not tunneling and applying pressure on healthy survivors. The devs can change DS itself to make it more fair they don't have to nor does it need it's amount of times it can be activated reduced by a third.
We don't need to encourage or even give all killers the ability to tunnel freely. Mori's are still useful whether you acknowledge that or not is irrelevant, the only way that it would be fair if basekit would be if the survivor couldn't be mori'd right away after they get off 2nd hook but that would make them even weaker than the current version so they might as well stay as they are.
As for the blood web that is not a problem and honestly needs to be addressed separately like do you really think removing mori's from them will make that much of a difference?, i don't use map offerings or bad addons/perks yet i get them constantly does that mean they should not be in the game? Obviously no, your opinion on mori's don't represent everyone and neither does mine but at least mine uses good logic that shows why mori's wouldn't be basekit. Your logic is simply "No they would be fine" without taking reality into account or providing good reasoning why. we have had this discussion before in other posts.
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Would it affect killers across the board? Sure, but is it really a significant buff? I think the trade offs match the advantages and Pyramid head as you mentioned is a prime example of that.
- Gives Killers more options.
- Removes additional clutter on the bloodwebs (now can we please get rid of the hazy and murky reagents on killers?)
- Could potentially cause more tunneling....
- But would also reduce slugging.
- Gives bEhavior more stuff to sell. It wouldn't be long until mori animations made it into the store and were selectable in customize.
- Puts a hard limit on last min saves with flashlight, body blocking, DS & pallets. Nerf to SWF teams specifically.
- This means more saves will be attempted for survivors on 2nd hook phase helping slow down the mid game.
- Reduces usefulness of all hook based perks, most notably meta perks such as BBQ and chili & pop. Blood warden would see less usage as well as minor impacts for carrying perks such as mad grit, iron grab & agitation and aura reading/denying perks.
- Helps increase fear of killers during the endgame.
- Limits the killer on closing the hatch and gives survivor the advantage of getting there first.
It sounds to me as if your biggest contention against this is how it impacts DS. You are either in the camp that DS is in a good state right now or you're not. I'm obviously in the latter as it gets abused far too frequently in red ranks. Sounds like you're in the former, fair enough. After all the nerfs killers have suffered over the last two years it's only reasonable they receive a mild, overall buff. Additionally, the animation locks could be increased with more unique and interesting animations if it were really warranted to give survivors more time to be productive.
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This change has given me motivation to play this game. Me & my SWF literally had to change our names & hide our profiles every so often as we were being targeted with Ebony Moris for playing with friends.
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Dude you're ignoring literally everything i said and including things in that list i already addressed. Also no your wrong, it is possible to actually not be a biased idiot and see the actual problem with the perk which is what i already explained. If you think all killers need a unhealthy buff i don't know what to say other than i hope you don't become part of a balance team and when discussing balance you don't include things that don't belong in that topic such as cosmetics which is what different mori animations would fall into.
If you can't explain things properly and want to make a list of points here is all those points flaw's. If we compare that to the simple mori nerf we got it's clear that it was not only better balance wise but also it didn't introduce any problems and having mori's basekit is nothing but a LIST of problems. Your right killers need buffs but if you seriously think the way to do that is to make tunneling easier is not the way to go, buffs should be per killer the only buff that should be across the board right now is something to slow the beginning of the game or small changes like how they increased pallet break speed.
- Killers have the same amount of options if they use a Mori and the only options that get introduced are tunneling options
- It won't affect blood webs that noticeably, go look at my post response i already disproved this and pointed out how stupid that is as using it as a point for mori's to be basekit.
- Obviously it's increases tunneling and that is NOT what the game needs, doesn't matter how you play it's the same argument as someone not abusing old mori's just because you don't doesn't mean others won't.
- yeah reduces slugging by killing survivors which is NOT a trade why do you think slugging exists its to help kill survivors. Your literally just buffing killings mate.
- LOL devs won't do that you just included BS in that list and this is about balance not about cosmetics
- Saves are extremely easy to avoid as killer and if they try it and fail they are wasting their time and you are getting into a chase faster. Only bad killers complain about SWF saves.
- Yeah that isn't likely, sure it will slightly affect how intense players will try but the impact as said won't be much. People don't even attempt saves unless nearby and only idiots follow the killer around doing nothing until that survivor goes down.
- BRUH you just complained about swf and now your complaining about perks that are not a problem, also it wont reduce them your wrong. If a player doesn't tunnel and they get a survivor on death hook they will use the hook, Mori's will be used for tunneling by avoiding save chances with any in game mechanic. Also getting a kill earlier is not equal to not being able to use a perk, it is always better to have a easier kill.
- That is unrelated to balance again you just added filler.
- It doesn't limit closing the hatch how TF does it??????? if anything it buffs the killer since they can mori survivors on the hatch and if a survivor is escaping by hatch they are not doing gens so the killer can wait off DS and hook that person or carry them to hatch and mori them. You don't understand how things impact games do you.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0 -
Your a survivor main, we get it. You think that the mori buff added balance to the game when it actually created unbalance. There are two things in the game that could quickly speed on the game in favor of one side. Survivors has keys and killers had mori's. That's not even debatable. I didn't knowingly dodge any of your points. If you want me to go through these all again I will.
- "Killers have the same amount of options if they use a Mori and the only options that get introduced are tunneling options
Just because you use a mori you automatically assume everyone will tunnel. That's a fallacy. Don't believe it? See Pyramid Head.
- It won't affect blood webs that noticeably, go look at my post response i already disproved this and pointed out how stupid that is as using it as a point for mori's to be basekit.
Yes, say that to people like myself who have over 200 ebony mori's alone on there killers. That equates to 1.4 million wasted blood points on a single offering, not including the other two.
- yeah reduces slugging by killing survivors which is NOT a trade why do you think slugging exists its to help kill survivors. Your literally just buffing killings mate.
It's not like when players are getting mori'd the rest are just standing around and doing nothing. Those animations take time and if needed could be increased.
- LOL devs won't do that you just included BS in that list and this is about balance not about cosmetics
Say's who? You honestly don't think they've already taken this into consideration?
- Saves are extremely easy to avoid as killer and if they try it and fail they are wasting their time and you are getting into a chase faster. Only bad killers complain about SWF saves.
Okay, you're just being silly now or you camp the hook, not sure what's worse but we can try it in KYF and see how well you do.
Yeah that isn't likely, sure it will slightly affect how intense players will try but the impact as said won't be much. People don't even attempt saves unless nearby and only idiots follow the killer around doing nothing until that survivor goes down
You are basing this on what exactly? To say that people don't attempt saves makes me think you play a lot of green rank solo survivor a lot.
- BRUH you just complained about swf and now your complaining about perks that are not a problem, also it wont reduce them your wrong. If a player doesn't tunnel and they get a survivor on death hook they will use the hook, Mori's will be used for tunneling by avoiding save chances with any in game mechanic. Also getting a kill earlier is not equal to not being able to use a perk, it is always better to have a easier kill.
I'm not complaining about them, I'm simply listing the pro's and con's if such a change were to be made. How would it not reduce them? That doesn't even make sense. If you don't hook how are hook based perks to work? If you don't slug how are slug based perks to work? If you don't carry how are carry based perks to work? You're arguing about things that are indisputable. If you wanted to put a good argument to that you would say ' is it enough of a tradeoff?'
- That is unrelated to balance again you just added filler.
Having survivors afraid means they are more likely to make mistakes and less likely to progress. Come on....
- It doesn't limit closing the hatch how TF does it??????? if anything it buffs the killer since they can mori survivors on the hatch and if a survivor is escaping by hatch they are not doing gens so the killer can wait off DS and hook that person or carry them to hatch and mori them. You don't understand how things impact games do you.
I'm fairly confident after reading all your points you either rarely play killer or know very little about them. Mori's cause the hatch to open instantly after the animation is played.
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my profile on xbox is achaoticprince go check my stats i have around 8k kills. I love it when someone doesn't have a good argument and tries to justify their bias by calling the other side biased when they just have better points. I already addressed all your points and you bring NOTHING new to the table at this point it is already clear that mori's being basekit is bad for this game. Also what buff? this was a nerf and it did make the game more balanced because mori's don't decide how matches go anymore. Keys are a separate issue that will get addressed and this isn't about keys.
- you don't speak for all players i simple speak the truth, if something is exploitable players exploit it. that is true across all games no matter how people feel about it.
- you have too many mori's? replace it with literally any offering/addon you don't use boo hoo again we can simply do something about the bloodweb removing mori's from them doesn't solve the issue and can't be used to argue for mori's being base kit because they are not affecting how mori's are used in a match.
- We don't need to increase mori time and you just ignored my point, simply responding with BS doesn't make you right. provide better reasoning that goes off LOGIC not your opinion.
- we are talking about balance again responding doesn't make you right and that's off topic.
- you suck at killer then, i play R1 and have been in R1 for nearly 3 years. Saves are not possible unless your in the open and didn't check for survivors or multiple survivors are taking hits so the survivor wiggles out. hell if you down survivors by walls simple looking at the wall removes the chances of a FL save happening you didn't prove me wrong you just showed me how much you don't understand how this game works good job.
- I base that off the fact that simply reducing saves doesn't increase or influence how saves go in game. the two don't go hand in hand players will simply understand that they don't have a chance at saves for survivors on lost hook it won't affect how well saves go or how often they would occur
- I literally explained why they wouldn't see that much of a decrease as well as the fact that a perk not activating is MORE than worth it to kill a survivor. if you can't understand that you are either ignoring it or pulling a strawmans argument.
- they wont be afraid what the hell are you basing that logic on? o look at that i pulled the same thing you did expect it makes more sense because that is a opinion based off no facts and you have to assume that this game actually scares people are for players that are good the only times you get scared is when the killer jump scares you. what do you think will happen this? "OMG IM ON LAST HOOK THE KILLER IS AFTER ME AAAAAAAH" no players are pretty calm when they understand whats happening.
- Yeah no again you just pulled a strawmans argument. you didn't prove me wrong or provide reasoning you just said "no"".
You didn't address my points and are calling me biased when you are the most biased on here because you don't care what happens on the survivor side of things. you points suck and i disproved them with actual logic based of reasoning you don't do that and if you continue doing that then this is no different than talking to a child who can't understand why he can't have something so he continues throwing a fit.
Again it is obvious that the change the devs made to mori's is better than the problematic solution you want, you call me biased but you fail to understand what your idea would do to this game so even if i was majorly based i still have a better point because i understand the game better than you and have provided reasoning that proves that.
what is your profile? show me your not bs'ing
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Im looking for a discussion not a meaningless argument. Saying I'm not answering your points or they are incredibly weak etc while being hostile and contradictory statements is not moving this anywhere. I'm on steam, I don't know about stats as I don't think steam tracks them other than time played and mine is more as I've played since launch. I have all killers, save the most recent 4, p3 with all perks and half the survivors done. But does this really have to be a pee pee measuring contest?
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you called me biased i provided bare minimum proof that i at least have way more time in killer in this game. Like without proof your claim of having all killers p3 and playing since release isn't very believable since anyone can say that. Not saying it's impossible but for someone to disregard balance knowing how this game is either shows you don't care about balance or you don't have the time you say you do. i said show stats because only new players or extremely biased ones say what you say and from what you say you don't have a good grasp on this game, like how saves are easy to avoid that is the truth for good players and since you claim to have all killers p3 surely you are good enough to rarely have a save be successful.
all your points were weak and you didn't counter mine, if that is not a meaningless argument to you yet losing one is then nice you should acknowledge when you have lost.
Im pretty sure you can see your stats on steam since i have seen some interesting stats like how many blinks someone has done as nurse on youtube but im unsure where you could find them maybe look at a separate site that tracks it. For now i won't believe you have the time you say you do in this game because it's hard to believe that you do based off what you say, feel free to prove me wrong or not at this point it doesn't matter since we are basically done here.
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Here you go :)
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I'm fine with the change, but I understand why people might be upset that it took like 4 years for them to change a 1 to a 2 lol.
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