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The Nightmare Should Be Used As A Reference For Changing Other Killers
Comments
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They made bubba weaker by removing his insta saw imo.
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So you’re not interested in actually making the game better and you just want another survivors vs killers thread. Gotcha
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I don't understand why these things are bad things? Killers need to slow you down, both slow gen repair and try to hook you to kill you. Am I missing something?
I wasnt aware that it was the killers job to let you speed through gens? Am I missing something?
And freddy's snares/traps don't work if you're awake. Go wake yourself up. It's not hard.
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Having natural slowdown isn't a bad thing, I literally never said it was, infact it think its necessary against even half decent teams. The problem is along with natural slowdown, Freddy has a TON of other abilities and a super easy skill cap. No other killer in the game has as much tools as he does, and even if they are stronger than him they all take a considerable amount of effort to get good as. Deathslinger, you'll have to practice your shots constantly and learn what you can shoot through, Blight, you'll have to know what objects you can and can't bounce off along with knowing how far you can hit and from what angles you can hit from, etc. Its undeniable that Freddy is super easy, and while having a easy killer isn't a bad thing giving them incredibly powerful tools is. Imagine if nurse had 4 blinks base kit or Billy had instasaw and doom engravings base kit.
I am not going to repeat myself on waking up isn't a full counter against Freddy. It'll work maybe once or twice but then it starts being a waste of time, plus you fall asleep pretty quickly and sometimes taking a hit is inevitable.
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Thats exactly what i meant. Thank you. Playing a strong character should always be difficult.
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If they're your friends and they knew you were playing Freddy on... Haddonfield, first of all they can run OoO which... is permanent wallhack on like one biggest maps in the game, like how do you even lose. Beyond that, if you know your on haddonfield, balance landing is huge cheese perk on the map in general. Sounds a bit of a phony story. Even than, I find it doubtful that they're "The best survivors on Xbox" and if that is the best, than that's pretty low standard.
Haddonfield is just an insane map for good survivors. it just has so many insane loops, like often on side houses, you can get windowed opened on 2nd floor where you can literally just watch a killer walk up the stairs into a drop down, than there's classic house of pain which can have insane window spawns with an amazing pallet, than there is sometimes crazy fence loops, loops around the house with pallets you can pre-drop ahead of the killer and loop around the house till killer gets like bloodlust 1 or 2 only to drop the garage pallet to instantly reset bloodlust. Most of the filler outside pallets unsafe besides middle street pallets. Haddonfield is paradise map for survivors. its the map that i see the most 3 and 4 man escapes on even on soloq, the last time i remember ever losing(Dying) on Haddonfield was when i was facing double iri add-on Spirit with Ebony mori. Freddy snares won't be doing much on that map and if they respect your freddy, they'll just stay even though haddonfield can probably beaten while being asleep entire time.
Freddy is good on maps that inherently have weaker loops like hawkins,dead dawg saloon, midwich, arguably shelter woods due to low pallet count. he can reliably dominate on these maps vs good teams. maps like those were balanced for normal killers as those maps either have unsafe loops or fair loops but freddy snare's is anti-loop mechanic so whatever is fair becomes unfair in his case as his snares were designed for safe conventional loops. Either way, I would consider most freddy's toolkit a bandaid fix to many bad imbalances to killer such as his generator teleport fixing big map design(for how it hurts their map pressure to walk to each gen), TR being a free alert for survivors to hold W against killers before they even get into a chase that freddy midly masks with his Lullaby, Snares for safe loop design, Add-on's that reward the killer with slower generators for injuring and down survivors quickly and winning chases. His entire kit is like everything that killer players want from a killer. Its for that reason that Freddy can be consider gold standard for a killer. Nothing Freddy's kit is inherently unfair or overturn but yet he has all the tools to succeed so it is somewhat of surprise that they would consider changing him. I guess we will see what changes about him.
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1) The cooldown is faster when people fall asleep, which happens passively. I literally never feel like I have to wait for my teleport, it's always ready when I need it.
2) Well they didn't do a very good job because you can still totally get bloodlust while placing snares. It doesn't reset the bloodlust timer it merely pauses it, so if you spend 3 seconds placing a snare you get bloodlust 3 seconds later than normal.
3) The lengths survivors have to go to avoid being put into DW in order to use BT almost completely negate any benefit from BT. All it takes is for him to hit you, now you can't give BT. That means no hook trading. That means Freddy can camp and ensure you never get BT. It's not at all hard I do this kind of BS all the time if I want to play like a dick.
4) 12% slowdown is quite a lot. On a gen thats 80/(1-.12) is 90 seconds. You added 10 seconds to the gen JUST from being asleep. Add in another 20% from Thana and now it's 80/((1-.12)*(1-.2) which is 114 seconds to solo a gen. Now add in Pop, every time he gets a hook he can almost definitely get Pop on any gen he wants. That 25%, or base 20 seconds is now 20/((1-.12)*(1-.2) which is 28 seconds. He gets an extra 8 seconds of time off the gen because of how Pop, Thana, and Rope/Chains interact with each other. I regularly win games with no more than 2 gens done, and usually I stop pressuring gens hard after someone dies. Literally not even a contest to stop gens.
5) He is a stealth killer. If you are awake you can't see him past 32m, and he disappears randomly between 32 and 16m. When you are asleep his lullaby is non-directional and non-range, so you can only tell how far he is by physically seeing him. It is super easy to sneak up on survivors, at least getting close enough so that they cannot run very far once they realize you are there.
He is quite OP when the killer knows what they are doing and how to exploit all these little mechanics he has to their benefit. He has more tools in his base kit than some killers have with add-ons COMBINED with another killer. It's ridiculous.
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It's always bad survivors Mainers wanting nerfs to killers lol.
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They didn't know I was their killer.
And they did run OOO. 2 of them. Normally my build includes Sheep Block for that exact purpose but I switched to a memey build to mess with them. After a few chases and gens it was clear they didn't want to meme even though I offered Haddonfield. So I play for real when the game was more than half over and I got a 2k, could have probably got 3k if I didn't mess up near the end. So yea, if I can make a massive comeback like that on a heavily survivor sided map against REALLY GOOD survivors with OOO then Freddy is probably, just maybe, a tad too strong. As literally any other killer I don't even think I would have got the 2k (which yes was a 1k because I dropped my friend on the hatch but technically it was a 2k because he was dead at this point).
And yes they are some of the best survivors on Xbox. We played in tournaments together, we've know each other for a while. We all play both sides (one of them is a good killer, the rest are average I'd say). Besides the fact they were in a 4 stack, which gives them even more of an advantage.
And speaking of tournaments, wanna know which killer out of like 10 games was the only one to get a 4k in a tournament match? Back to back (as in their team got a 4k then our team got a 4k)? Yep, Freddy. Literally every other killer gets completely bodied, you'd be lucky to get a 2k. Freddy on both sides got a 4k, the only 4k's in the entire set of matches between the top 2 teams.
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I think its becoming a bit more apparently how little credibility the post has. I'd imagine a player who "mains" or one tricks freddy would understand his own game mechanics. Bloodlust is instantly reset upon placing a snare. It was apparently a bug in first month of release for Freddy but its been like this ever since. NO BT does not mean that you can't save people from hooks, in fact one of most common strategies to save people from hooks in end game(at least for SWF) is to purposely take a hit to put killer recovery, begin unhooking process while one player blocks the killer from hitting the unhooker, than form a kongo line where injured players go ahead of the group in straight line and uninjured players block in straight line to exit gate. Its super easy to do in SWF vs M1 killers and only the perk STBFL can counter this. Lastly, All slowdown memes have been dractically weakened to obilivion and if freddy in position to get this kind of value, He would won without the perks in the first place because your play is sub optimal. now a days meta freddy builds centered around Undying+Ruin+Tinkerer and those add-on that people use on freddy is because there is nothing really better. Lastly, Tournament team do not mean good, it just means competing for something. Overwatch had a team called Shanghai Dragons that went like 0-40, Tournament team just means competing for something, there is such thing as bad teams.
Nobody really fears Freddy but everyone knows he had opportunity to win if he plays his cards right and his opponent messes up. It is what balanced killer look like. Billy used to be that.
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"Bloodlust is instantly reset upon placing a snare."
It's not you can try it. I literally get Bloodlust while placing a snare sometimes still.
" in fact one of most common strategies to save people from hooks in end game(at least for SWF) is to purposely take a hit to put killer recovery"
Yea it's called a trade and it's done to save the guy on the hook from death. The problem is it's kind of a one time thing if the killer is camping, then you'd just end up trading until you are all dead. You need BT in some instances to get out of the trade vacuum. BT doesn't work against Freddy and therefore all you do by saving in his face is trade hooks and lose Benevolence (because he will down the guy right away). Now he has 1 hooked (you) and another slugged (potentially another hook if DS was already used or something). Trust me if I don't want someone to be saved as Freddy I can make sure it doesn't happen. You will both go down.
"Lastly, All slowdown memes have been dractically weakened to obilivion"
They haven't actually. They are weaker than before but I can assure you that the slowdown is still real. As any other killer in a normal game, even when I steamroll, at LEAST 3 or 4 gens get done. As Freddy survivors are lucky to finish 2 because I run a rope and Thana, and I have Pop to negate any progress they make easily.
"Lastly, Tournament team do not mean good, it just means competing for something."
Spoken like someone that never played a tournament game in their life, for any game.
"Nobody really fears Freddy but everyone knows he had opportunity to win if he plays his cards right and his opponent messes up. It is what balanced killer look like. Billy used to be that."
Yet he has the highest kill rate at all ranks AND red ranks by a wide margin since his rework. I think people don't fear him because 1) how he used to be was a joke and they never got over it, and 2) they are too busy worrying about Spirit and Nurse to care about Freddy.
Also LOL at "only STBFL can beat SWF". Right yes, this one perk is the thing that gets the win against players on comms.
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If you going to respond, at least try to read my comment properly
1) There is no where in my comment where i stated that STBFL beats SWF. After re-reading it, the word "this" refers to bodyblocking which i describe can be used to save anyone on a hook without hook trading and without borrow time against non-instant down killers when properly executed. The reason i bring up the perk is because perk allows you to recovery from hits quicker, you will see that it is exponentially harder to save a person from a killer with 8 stacks STBFL than without the perk in the EGC. Saving people from a hook from freddy is no different than what it would be if it was wraith and this becomes a lot easier if you have perks like Adrenaline proc on the hook etc.
2) It just means your bad at other killers. The amount of generators that gets done is based off skill level of the survivor and how good their coercion & looping skill is. Like all perks, they do help contribute to the win but do not define the win. if your "steamrolling" as you say, than you should be winning quite hard regardless. that being said, Haddonfield is known to be very strong survivor map and if the team is good, surely they could easily handle Freddy blind and "steamrolling" good players on Haddonfield just isn't a thing for a variety of reasons.
3) Even in professional tournaments such as NHL hockey league, there are star teams and bad teams. I was actually in a local tournament for a different game where i won like 100 dollars but not for DBD. There is always star players that often elevate their team to next level in all competition.
4) The snares part looks like a bug like many other bugs that come out every patch but I'm unaware irregularity so no comment.
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Why is OP defending freddy so hard like it’s the last thing in their life? he’s getting changed and it’s been confirmed on the dev stream, 70% kill rate is NOT OK.
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Why do so many people think that playing survivors is soo easy?
It really isn't.
The majority of survivors i see on high ranks pretty much proves that.
Also,people don't mind strong killers as long as they are interactive (e.g Blight,Oni,Huntress etc.)
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Strong disagree with the OP. Freddy is not a balanced killer, he is overtuned. He is good at all the important points for a killer: chase, mobility, map presence and gen disruption. He has a bloated kit. That's why is doing so well.
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And there are casuals on the survivor side who don't genrush and don't play SWF at all, and map design has been fixed and reiterated over and over to remove all the broken god loops.
You say casual killer players without thousands of hours should be given the tools to compete with the cream of the crop survivor players with thousands of hours of play time. But you should be comparing them to casual survivors as well.
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Balanced, huh? Yeah, no. As much as the old Freddy was there just because they liked the license, this one can do far too much. Teleporting is ok to me, but the rest needs some work. Freddy players can just mindlessly spam their skill without even worrying about it being strategical. 10 fake pallets mean you can cover the whole map, for instance. Snares require A BIT of thinking, but, 10 are still too spam friendly. And it's not even like you can remove them without activating them, so. Not to mention Freddy's hitbox has been broken since release. Can't remember how many times I was hit by a Freddy who lunged in front of him, while I was behind him. Have you ever played R6S? If so, you must know about Maverick, an operator who still doesn't have a true and proper counter a couple years after his release4. Freddy is like that, as there is no counter for a Freddy who tunnels you (and let's be honest, every single killer player will tunnel the s**t out of you when he spots you).
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A Killer should have a kit that allows them to use all the skills that comes with Killer, just like how Survivors are built to be able to perform with all skills that comes with Survivor. The Killers that don't have map pressure, chase/anit-loop abilities, and the ability to distract Survivors from their main objective are far too weak, and need to be buffed to this standard.
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Why are you so passive aggressive in half of your replies? lmao
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Lol
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According to the kill rates nurse needs massive buffs
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Actually a good point
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Playing dumb are we? nurse is an exception, her power is very different and unique and wasn’t her kill rate something like 46%? which is like 4% off the wanted percentage, unlike Mr.Fredrick here with his 70% kill rate, 30% off the preferred percentage.
he literally sticks out like a sore thumb it’s hilarious people still have the audacity to call him balanced.
30>4
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Her kill rate was 40% if i remember correctly. My point was that you cannot just cherry pick statistics how you please. You know what is funny fact? killers had already 2 kill 2 escape ratio back in 2016 when survivors were pretty much gods, but according to the statistics survivors shouldn't have been nerfed. Also last thing. 50-70% is now 30 % difference? how does your math work
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And casual survivors can win against those stronger killers. So what's your point?
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Yes I consistently 4k as pretty much every killer, I must be bad at killer in general. Yet of all the killers I try the LEAST with Freddy and still win convincingly. When I can literally throw the first half of a game against a 4 stack of good survivors on a survivor sided map and STILL almost make a comeback then Freddy is indeed too strong.
"Even in professional tournaments such as NHL hockey league, there are star teams and bad teams."
Yea, and any one of the "bad" teams will still demolish a team made of random people that don't play together. Go play some tournament matches in something before you speak about this. The mentality of a competitive player is way different than that of a casual, and when you play in a tournament setting you'd realize this.
And I never said they were good players because they played in tournaments. That's just another checkmark to them being good. I've know these guys over a year at this point and we play together regularly. I know how good they are. You can dismiss it all you want but I guarantee you would get 4e'd by our group if we were playing sweating. That's how literally 99% of our tournament matches go. Lo and behold the only killer that actually ever killed all of us, more than once mind you, was Freddy.
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Developer Logic .... They make a good assassin that most top assassins enjoy and it's a good challenge to beat and nerf him. They have 150 Bugs 80 percent bad p And they prioritize nerfing this killer. Haha and they wonder why there are so many pathetic Survivors who are red rank and play like rank 30 haha
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Perhaps I misunderstood your vocabulary but the term you used was "Steamroll", I could be misunderstanding the term but steamroll implies that you are dominating your opposition, like lately I've been playing a lot of leatherface and getting situations of 2-3 man slugs where i am decimating opposition from my experience, and those games, they're pretty one sided with like 4-5 gens, so when you said "3-4 generator are getting done" on other killers that you claim you were steamrolling, it just sounded very strange because being down to 1 generator made it sound like your on brink defeat, yet you claim of steamrolling with everyone else. It makes little sense.
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Steamrolling as in quickly ending chases and getting hooks. Even as Spirit my map pressure isn't even close to the level of Freddy and therefore I have to accept that 2 or 3 of the farthest gens are going to go. As Freddy, I can cross the map instantly so if I'm winning chases at the same rate I'm applying pressure much faster and more efficiently than as Spirit. Like if I get a hook and see 2 survivors on a gen clear across the map, even as Spirit I have to say "that gens probably done I can't stop it". As Freddy the only time this is true is if the gen is about to be done right after the hook, and even then you can start the teleport and go to that gen to start chases with those survivors IMMEDIATELY after a hook.
Spirit's best map pressure add-ons are ring and amulet. Combined you can travel a distance of about 70m is 8.5 second. As Freddy I can cover a distance of infinity in about 2 seconds. Do you understand what I'm saying now?
You can steamroll a group, but doing so as Freddy you will find you are MUCH more oppressive than any other killer just by the sheer speed you can go across the map. Add in his really strong chase potential (comparable to Clown, who despite being a bad killer overall is still REALLY strong in a chase at least). In fact that's actually what makes Freddy as good as he is compared to Clown, the teleport. If Clown had a teleport he would be insane because he'd have super strong map pressure AND strong chase potential. Or in other words, he'd be Freddy. But even then Freddy has semi-stealth, passive built in slow down, and semi-passive anti-BT.
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With matchmaking this bad, kill rate means next to nothing.
Nurse has the lowest kill rate. You gonna tell me she needs buffs?
Freddy kills a lot of people for two reasons.
- He's somewhat powerful while being very easy.
- The majority of survivors are awful.
Simple as that.
If you get one dipshit who goes down super quickly because they underestimate Freddy's lunge, you're all #########.
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Sure, that is just standard kill pressure, not steamrolling. steamrolling is pretty strong word, glad we cleared that up. Freddy teleports are clear point A to B. The map have finite size so the term infinity sounds like exaggeration. Spirit's phase walks are anywhere between 1-70 meters and her movement application both work for gen presence and the chase. she ends chases very quickly with good reads. her power is very versatile. Freddy power is not as versatile as hers. he is very linear and somewhat predictable paired with a somewhat weak early game. Freddy's mid game is his strongest suit which is why you did not struggle later in the match but Freddy is type of killer that is suppose lose hard early which is fairly ironic as his kit was designed to prologue the game. Point being that freddy is not exactly as indestructible as the kill rate would suggest. I am not denying that Freddy tools are effective but I'm saying that his tools are good benchmarks for what 115% killers need to be successful. I feel like it might lower standard of future killers though I would like to keep an open mind with that.
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I'm not cherry picking, every killer is relatively close to each other in terms of statistics, like they're gradually increasing from 2%, 4%, but freddy has a very big noticeable gap that no one can deny is pretty noticeable, and i did miscalculate, it was 20% instead of 30%. Point is he's being changed and this conversation is completely pointless tbh
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I'm very unsure if you're trying to defend him or support his upcoming changes, you call him powerful and very easy while calling "Majority" of survivors bad, also nurse is an exception because she's extremely hard to master and deadly in the right hands, and her kill rate isn't as low, it's a 46% iirc, 4% off the preferred percentage, instead of being 20% off the preferred percentage
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I just looked recent statistic and her kill rate was 40%. You keep spewing 46% which is old
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Yes, every killer needs everything. Give slinger teleportation abilities, and make every gen start regressing whenever spirit phases.
Better yet, delete every other killer and rebrand as Fred by Daylight.
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I can't say I support the changes until I see them.
He didn't outright say they're nerfing him; he edged around it while very intentionally not saying it outright. As such I'll withhold judgement until specifics come out.
Freddy isn't bad balance but he is a bad design. I categorize him the same way I do Pyramid.
Most survivors are borderline on the whole "sentience" thing. I've played this gave 4500 hours since 2016 and if one thing has been hammered home, it's that.
He may be a high B, low A tier killer, but he's a high B, low A tier that I can play with one hand tied behind my back while doing my taxes and making a quiche. There's nothing to him.
Combine the ease of playing Freddy at peak with how most survivors can't tie their own shoes, and it's no wonder he keeps getting kills.
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please explain how a killer with built in stealth, strong anti-loop, high mobility and insane gen lock potential and stalling ability is in any way balanced
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Other than the fact that there is literally no skill involved in spamming Freddy's Snares/pallets, you clearly do not understand the concept of what being "balanced" means. Balanced means that a killer would have strong points and weak ones, pros and cons. Old Freddy had almost only cons. This new version, on the other hand, has got no cons. You see where I am going? I'll word it in a simpler way: think about the way you can have a nuke in CoD multiplayer games. You have to reach 25 kills in a row, without dying. If you do, you kill every player on the map and win the match instantly. But you have to score 25 kills without dying, and that is hard even for campers. If you do, tho, you win the game. That is balanced. Freddy? He has the nuke as soon as he starts the match. Again, and please try to follow me on this: balanced characters cannot do EVERYTHING. Freddy can. Or, you know, let's have survivors with Dead Hard, Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time already built into their kits, plus 4 other skills of their choosing, plus the ability to destroy hooks while the killer is carrying them. Sounds about right, doesn't it?
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Maybe I'm a little bit racist but imo ppl below at least 2k hrs shouldn't be able to post here on the forum because then ends up with post like these
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Pffft.
IdV gives sub-skills to killers. One of those is an indtant blink 5m forward.
Another is a teleport to a gen with shorter casting time than freddy, and i think only 2min CD. Additional to their ability kit.
Its not rreddy thats overblown. Wraith etc are too lackluster.
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Wraith being lacklustre and Freddy being bloated can both be true.
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i like the idea of the clocks but i dont get it why people want him nerfed he is in no way op just annoying to play against but so is doctor and hag hag is better then freddy yet not many people cry about her its just a trend to hate on freddy
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Agreed. I have been playing since the games release. Get lost noob.
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I agree, Freddy is the powerful killer all killers deserve to be. This is how a power role should be handled. The killer should be the one who gets to make the survivors sweat. Not the other way around.
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With ruin undying on Freddy, good luck with the gens
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That's not bloated, all Killers should have that so you know, they can actually be killers.
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Actually my dog can play Freddy and 4k. Pog.
Ok just kidding.
The problem is not Freddy is a perk called "Pop goes 3gen". So insane ... this perk need a rework.
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Yeah I stopped taking their posts seriously when they replied to multiple people at the same time with just: OMG you didnt read my original post !!!111!one!
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