The Nightmare Should Be Used As A Reference For Changing Other Killers
The only reason why Freddy does so well is because he is balanaced. Good survivors have no issue against him. Bad survivors complain the game is boring because they refuse to do gens, and get distracted by his power.
This should be a base reference for all Killers. All Killers should have the ability to traverse the map quickly, to create an additional objective for survivors to distract them from their objective, an ability to scout survivors, and have the ability to make looping more difficult.
The only reason Freddy does so well, is because he has all of this, and the Killer playerbase finally has a balanced killer that can reflect all of their skill.
People say he's an easy mode killer, but on the contrary new freddy's suck till they learn the basics of the game. People say he is boring to face, because they can't bully a Killer that can actually act as the power role in a match. People say he is easy to go against, because he actually is - as everything he can do comes with sound/visual notifications, can be avoided, and countered. Playing against him is easy, when you learn how to actually play survivor.
Comments
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yeahh as a killer main, Freddy is far too easy for how well he can perform, and his kit is far too bloated.
he’s boring to play against because his power is inevitable and slows the game down, not survivors “refusing to do gens”
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He's boring because his kit is a mix-match of other killers, not because he's strong or that I can't bully him. I don't disagree with you, but in the future I would prefer they prioritize creativity over strength. It's what I would prefer at least.
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If anything, Bubba is the clear winner for "rework done right". He is very strong in the things he does, has very well defined weaknesses, and when he wasn't performing up to snuff, he was given a significant but appropriate boost in his power.
Freddy is over-tuned. His base kit is literally "just give him everything" with no focus on strengths and weaknesses. He has no feel, no identity. He just does "everything". Need to move fast? Teleport. Need stealth? It's almost always on. Need loop traps and intel? Covered. On top of that, he is mostly immune to many perks that make use of the Terror Radius. He needs some of his kit stripped away, and what remaining kit he has can be strengthened to give him a set playstyle that he excels at.
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If he doesn't have gen slow down add-ons, his power can be ignored outside of chases.
If he has gen slow down add-ons, it only adds 3-5 seconds to the gen. 5 seconds with a fully stacked Swing Chains + Jump Rope.
At least know the basics of the Killer before dismissing my thread, kthanks
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His weakness is staying awake. If you are awake, Freddy get's his teleportation slower. He can't stop you in loops. He can't slow down gen speed. Also his terror radius isn't modified.
Literally the easiest Killer to counter, when you know how to counter it. People don't know something this simple is because the Survivor mindset makes people refuse to learn how to be better at the game.
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I don't consider Freddy overpowered at all but his kit is a bit overtuned. I think a few small nerfs wouldn't hurt him too much like slightly longer duration before falling asleep or allowing waking up at any clock, not just the furthest one.
I'd tone down him just a tiny bit and see how it affects him.
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It's a shame Freddy has both a passive and an active way to keep you awake and the only way to wake up without either running away from a gen or just straight blowing it up is to pray you find an awake Survivor somewhere else.
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Alternatively there is the doctor, who was tuned even less than Bubba was.
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you know Freddy is getting changed, right?
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At the same time, I can see the benefit to having a killer that is both easier to play and still quite powerful.
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How does his power slow the game down?
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It's a shame you don't take the time to learn how to play survivor well, or how to counter a Killer - but please ignore what I say next and continue with thinking all Killers should just only have m1 and can be looped indefiently (which is what Freddy is when you play against him right).
Don't waste time running across the map to wake up. Don't tell the Killer where you are by failing a skill check to wake up. When you save someone from hook, have that person wake you up immediatly. Also if the Killer goes in chase with a survivor from across the map, you can fail a check to force the Killer to decide to either continue chasing their target, or switch to you. Switching to you means he has to go across the whole map, or waste his power - if you know he used his teleportation recently (which you would since it has a global audio trigger) - even better to fail a check when it's on cooldown. If you fail the check, and he does choose to change targets. Then he is chasing you while you are awake, and is just a m1 Killer.
But yeah, I'm sure you're not going to read any of that and continue to think this character is broken when he is so easily countered and easy to beat. There are other tips too, like not running from a gen spewing blood, walk away / sneak away instead. Don't leave scratch marks, that's what Freddy has to use to find you.
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How is Bubba " very strong"? You use a few windows against him and he's a regular m1 killer
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Freddy rework is what I want all Killers to be.
Not op at anything, but basekit has full of tools to pick and use. (able to see highlight, slow Gen down, passively put to sleep, ignore BT arent ok though)
I love to see Killers have more tools in basekit like Fred, PH, or at least Doctor. Hope Clown & Trapper, Hag get a similar rework.
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As a former old Freddy main and someone that plays a LOT of new Freddy, he is not at all balanced. I literally play this killer if I want to win without trying. He has WAY too much in his base kit.
Don't get me wrong, Freddy needed to be better but he was overtuned with his rework. Remove some of his base kit effects and put them on add-ons (namely Oblivious in Dream World) and make his snares like 20% smaller and he would be just perfect. Also, let's just remove the slow down add-on effects. Ropes/Chain should do something else, Freddy of all killers doesn't need extra slowdown. He literally has the best map pressure in the game because he can teleport across the map instantly. Not even Billy can cross the map as fast as Freddy. His teleport is especially strong on maps with gens on multiple floors, like Game/Midwich, because unlike every other killer that has to take the stairs Freddy can just teleport there.
I can count on one hand the number of games I lost as new Freddy since his rework. More than 90% of my games are 4k with no more than 2 gens done. He is definitely EZ mode killer.
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Freddy is simply too good for how little skill is required to play him. He doesn't need a huge nerf, but some power adjustment to require him to need more skill to utilize his kit would be good for him.
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The reason Freddy does so well is because he's braindead. He has map-wide pressure because of his ability to teleport anywhere whenever he wants, and his dream snares are basically just an easier-to-use version of Clown's bottles. Both of these powers are easy to use and effective. He's not the best killer in the game by any means, but he's absolutely the easiest to make good use of.
Killers shouldn't have movement and extra objectives and loop pressure abilities and tracking abilities and stealth all at the same time. The reason Freddy is boring is that he has, like, 5 mini-powers that all make up one power that he can't do anything interesting with. He's a basic M1 killer who can show up at generators by holding a button and make chases end faster by holding a different button. The literal only depth he has is that you can teleport to a nearby generator during a chase to approach from an unexpected angle.
Freddy's skill floor and skill cap are nearly identical because his power is a replacement for having a good understanding of fundamentals and how to loop. There is no unique skill to playing as Freddy. There isn't anything inherently wrong with him in a balance sense, necessarily, however he is one of the worst-designed killers in the game, up there with Deathslinger. The only good thing I can say about him is that he's good for beginners. Freddy is training wheels for every other killer in the game, in his current state.
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He's one of the stronger killers in the game, easily top five in my opinion and has the lowest skill requirement out of the roster.
He's bloated in power and has abilities that are almost, just better versions of other Killers.
Teleport? Demogorgon's jealous.
Free slow down mechanic? Everyone's jealous.
Snares to counter any form of looping and force early pallet drops? Clown's only power is on Freddy.. and is better
He's just so stupid in strength. On my tier list, I'd place him only behind Nurse and Spirit.
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Yeah sure his weakness is you staying awake, but your missing something very crucial, and that is that all the options to wake up work in his favor. Blow up a gen? You just revealed your location and lost process. go to the other side of the map to wake up? You wasted a ton of time going there. Get a teammate to wake you up? Now it takes even more time to wake up, and plus if he hits you you go to sleep and from there your incredibly vulnerable.
Even though Freddy isn't the strongest killer, he has one of if not the 2nd most powerful base kit in the game. He has really good anti loop, he can teleport to gens, he has natural slowdown (Sleep mechanic), he counters BT, and one other thing I forgot. Freddy is literally just Demogorgon on steroids', and speaking of Demogorgon, lets look at his base kit since its sort of similar to Freddy's. Demo has anti loop but it can be baited and will leave you with a short stun, he can teleport from anywhere from the map but he has to take some time to place it down and then when he teleports to it he has a global audio queue. You can also remove his portals, although it takes a bit of time. Even despite all of this, most players will say that Demo is quite balanced, although most (including me) do agree that he needs a bit of buffs, but then he'll be truly balanced. How is it fair that Freddy just gets Demos base kit on steroids without a single drawback?
Edit: Also forgot to mention that how is it fair that Freddy is one of the easiest killers to play despite having one of the most powerful base kits in the game? Imagine if nurse or Hillbilly were as easy to play as Freddy is. It would be the equivalent of giving nurse 4 blinks base kit and giving Hillbilly instasaw and Doom engravings base kit.
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People who think Freddy is balanced are people who want to play a different game. They expect the killer to be able to dominate with little actual skill. They want DBD to be more like a horror movie where survivors drop like flies and maybe one escapes.
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Yeah, ez mode as in easy to beat you mean. Freddy is just a m1 killer if you know how to play Survivor.
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Read my response and OP again, kthanks.
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His power naturally slows the game down by heavily encouraging survivors to wake up, and by waking up you'll be wasting time in the process. Go across the map? Time wasted. Blow up a gen? Time wasted. Attempting to find a teammate that isn't asleep yet to wake you up? Time wasted. Somehow find a teammate that isn't asleep wake you up? The next time you find a teammate it will take much longer to wake you up (16 seconds I believe)
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If you would actually read it - typical Survivor mindset. Games too easy for them, so they refuse to learn how to actually play the game to get good.
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"He's just an M1 Killer".
Yet he isn't though, he has insane map pressure and can end loops extremely fast, to the point where you WILL run out of pallets to work with and just go down.
His power helps him get hits unless you drop the pallet early. An M1 Killer cannot achieve this.
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People don't read anything now a days
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An M1 killer that can...
- Teleport clear across the map in less time than it takes for Nurse to charge a blink.
- Beat every loop in the game by spamming snares. I mean seriously if you can't catch a survivor after the second go around you are a bad killer. You even get Bloodlust while you do it, yep because that's fair.
- Completely counter one the the best survivor perks in the game just by doing... nothing. Maybe hitting them. But yea survivors have to go so so far out of their way to save with BT against Freddy. If you camp hooks you should ALWAYS be able to slug the guy that just got save the instant they are pulled from the hook.
- Slow down gens/healing with add-ons. Tell me what other killer has this that is even close to as effective. Literally none. Just wait 60 seconds and you get a free stack of Thana basically. If survivors want to avoid it they either waste time waking up or lose time on gens by failing skillchecks.
- Be a stealth killer while doing everything mentioned above.
But yes he is totally fair. The fact I can fall asleep while I play him and still 4k 3 gen majority of my games just means I'm a god killer. Thanks for the compliment!
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"nO oNe ReAdS aNyMoRe"
*Proceeds to not read the replies he gets but still responds*
Well done champ
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When you know his counters - he's just an m1 killer with audio/visual notifications for everything he does.
Don't worry when you actually get good at Survivor the only Killers you're going to have a problem with is Nurse and Spirit (and Nurse isn't even much of a problem anymore).
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"Very strong in the things he does". You needed to finish reading the sentence. It also mentions he has well defined weaknesses, which is one of those things you brought up. Bubba has a very clear focus in what he is good at, and within those terms, he's extremely good at it. He also has well defined counterplay. That's good design. He's not the best Killer by far, but he is VERY good and very well defined.
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I am reading just fine, but if you think he's not easy to beat. Then you just gotta get better at the game. I literally have a harder time against most Clowns than I do Freddy. Some Clown got bottles coming from no where, while Freddy gotta spit blood for a good dance before he ever shows his face.
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Don't waste time going across the map? Ok, well one of his options to wake up isn't viable. Also, STRAWMAN. I NEVER said I wanted all killers to just be M1 killers who can be looped indefinitely. I just don't want killers like Freddy who not only have a massive base kit but are braindead easy to play. If a killer is going to have as much stuff as Freddy, make them difficult to play. What if I can't save someone? If someone else saves then going over there to be waken up is a waste of time. Also you didn't mention this but if you get woken up by a teammate once, the next time you get waken up by them it will take MUCH longer to do, all the way to 16 seconds which is a ginormous waste of time. Even if Freddy is chasing someone, if you blow up a gen that's still a lot of time your wasting and your alerting the Freddy which gen is being worked on so if the person whos chasing him is giving him a rough time he will teleport to your gen, screwing you over. Waste of time. For each survivor that is asleep, his power tele regenerates even faster and that's without including addons, so even if he teleports to you the positives beat out the negatives. He can also cancel out his teleport which will prevent it from being used, and since the global audio queue doesn't tell you if he's faked it or not, you can still be teleported too if you guess wrongly. You still fall asleep passively so even if you loop Freddy for a bit you'll go to sleep soon, and from there your incredibly vulnerable.
None of the options to wake up is good, the only good one is if you go to a teammate who is awake and get them to wake you up ONCE, anything after that will waste your time even more and slow down the game. Because he already has natural slowdown, if you combine his power with Ruin + Undying + Tinkerer he becomes 2x more powerful and will more often then not, win, or at the very least get 2 kills. Also I'm assuming that the survivors are playing decently optimal, and more often then not they aren't going to be playing that optimal, thus leading to a loss.
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Typical killer mindset. Automatically assuming that anyone that disagrees with him is a survivor main and refuses to accept that sometimes your opinion is dumb.
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What does "beat" a Freddy even mean? You escape alone? You escape as a team?
You can escape against a Freddy, but he's still an obnoxious Killer who's too strong.
You can also beat a Nurse or Spirit, but it doesn't change that they're still bullshit at the best of times.
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Read my responses again. What did I say about being asleep while working on a gen, compared to being in chase. When does it actually matter? Can you ignore being asleep? The only braindead thing I am seeing so far, is attempts at gaslighting people into thinking Freddy is.
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I guess you missed the part where I said I play him all the time?
Rank 1 both sides. Almost 4k hours. I main Spirit and I honestly find it easier to win as Freddy than as Spirit. At least for Spirit I need to focus on the game to hear survivors. Freddy I can just kinda do whatever and I win most games convincingly. The only survivors that give me any trouble are 4 man SWF and only then if I'm doing something other than my normal build.
Maybe you just don't understand how to play Freddy and get bodied. Try this... BBQ, Pop, Thana, STBFL, Red Pain Brush, Jump Rope/Swing Chains. If you don't body every survivor group you face with that then you are just not a good killer.
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Maybe, I feel like having a chase ability and map traversal ability could get a bit stale in terms of diversity. Maybe for some killers there should be just one base ability that helps them in a chase and get around like Oni or hillbilly. But not a bad idea, having a power for map pressure and chasing potential sounds nice, just remember that a mix of both can be interesting and keep things (ideas or abilities of killers) much more fresh and unique.
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Same Rank. I have over 7000 hours in the game though. I deffiently find it easier to win as Spirit. I have an easier time with Nurse than Spirit. It also surprises me that players still don't understand that Rank, and game time doesn't matter. The idea that you guys are not facing good survivors back to back to back is showing you clearly are not good enough at the game yet.
Hopefully when the MMR system get's properly implemented it will be an eye opener for you, but I doubt that based on your so far close mindedness.
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If your asleep on a gen and Freddy teleports to your gen, your screwed. Being awake in a chase is just relying hard on RNG. If Freddy finds you right as your transitioning into the sleep world or nearing the sleep world, your going to have a bad time.
The only braindead thing I'm seeing is your attempt into baiting people and your opinion on what a killer should be. Also noticed that you haven't countered the argument that Freddy is so damn incredibly easy to play as. How come Freddy takes next to no skill to play as while killers like Blight, Nurse, Demogorgon, and many others take hours to get good at while also having much less to work with?
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I told you how to counter that too. Maybe because Freddy does take time to learn as well, which is obvious with how weak he is against the best.
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His power is too easy to use, has too many bells and whistles, and his power affects survivors NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO. This is a perfect case of OVER tuning a character.
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The issue isn't whether or not he is easy to beat. The issue is that he his base kit is a complete buffet of Killer abilities that makes playing against him annoying. While his answers to most Killer problems are fairly basic or mediocre in their implementation, the point is that he has a built in answer for EVERYTHING. No other Killer in the game gets the sheer global capacity that Freddy gets. This also works to make Freddy feel like you aren't playing against a single strong playstyle, rather you're against a litany of weaker playstyles that add up to overwhelming nothing.
Blight is a strong Killer. Blight also has a well defined playstyle with a high skill ceiling. He has one ability, and after using it once, he can attack on subsequent uses of it until he attacks or just stops. He doesn't need a GORILLION little special abilities to be an amazing Killer. On top of all that, most people regard him as being fun to play against.
Freddy is none of those things. His playstyle is so poorly defined it barely exists (M1 Killer with lots of extra crap), he's not fun to play against, has a low skill ceiling, and thrives on his base kit just spamming mediocre answers to nearly every problem a Killer can encounter. It's simply not good design. To top that off, his kill rate is higher than almost the entire roster of Killers. Despite how easy he is to both play as and agaisnt, he scores lots of kills. More kills, in terms of percentage, than nearly the entire roster of Killers in the game. Mostly because his bloated base kit makes being bad at him hard. In another thread, I brought up this comparison:
An exceptional Nurse will always dominate over an exceptional Freddy. A terrible Freddy will always dominate over a terrible Nurse. Freddys base kit carries him to, at his worst, be better than any other Killer playing equally badly. He literally rewards the Killer player simply for picking him.
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I brought up way more points then he's a braindead killer, don't ignore them. I brought up reasons on why playing survivor normally doesn't "counter" him. Your refusing to acknowledge any of my points and are instead just spewing out nothing of substance. I'm fine with Deathslinger, I'm fine with Nurse, I'm fine with almost every killer in the game except for a select few, Freddy included.
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Amazing! I brought up many points on how all of Freddy's "counters" aren't actually counters and instead of responding on how I'm wrong you redirect me to your previous statement which was what I was responding to!
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The devs said Freddy's kill rate is too high so they're going to rework him. Whatever any of us think, the devs have decided he's too strong, and that being the case they're definitely not going to use how he currently is as a reference for future killer reworks.
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The Nightmare is boring af to vs and to play as. He isn't even fun to play he is just strong for how stupidly easy he is to play. I'm a killer main and I strongly believe killers should be the power role but Freddy is way to strong for how PISS EASY he is to play. It's not that I think Freddy is OP, he is mid tier at best, not even top 5 in terms of raw power; but he is a pug stomper, a good SWF will make short work of Freddy but solo ques get run over by him more than any other killer.
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The only problem Freddy has is his slowdown add-ons, take that away and he is balanced.
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I think people are caught up on the fact that he's easy to play as that's irrelevant to how strong he is.
The game would and probably still will die if we had no easy to learn but good killers just look at the (Nearly dead)Arena shooter genre for what happens when you have no easy to learn characters.
For his balance:The main thing I'd hope they would test first on freddy is just removing his passive generator slowdown add-ons as they are simply 2 extra slowdown perks in his build letting him overcap the normal slowdown perk cap of 4.
If that isn't enough I'd double his initial sleep timer and if needed increase the clock's sleep timer to two minutes to try to force freddy to get hits if he wants to use his dream projection a lot early into the game.
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I've won against good survivors dude.
Literally played a 4 stack of my friends, some of the best survivors on Xbox, a few weeks ago. I got a 2k on Haddonfield (I offered it BTW), and because I was trying to meme and they were playing really sweaty (they didn't know it was me). After 2 gens popped I decided to just play normal, and I had 1 dead and my friend dead to rights but I dropped him on hatch. Had I played a normal build and played serious from the beginning of the game (and offered a map that favors killer, IDK Midwich) I could have definitely got a 3k, possibly 4k against some of the best survivors on the platform IN A 4 STACK.
So yea I've played against many good survivors.
Oh and before you say anything about me being on Xbox, I was forced into crossplay when I got my Series X and I honestly find it easier than playing on Xbox no crossplay because literally 90% of games on Xbox no crossplay are 4 stacks. It's almost not even a challenge most of the time with crossplay on.
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I know this sounds weird, but I don’t want dbd to have a Meta Knight
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