Exhaustion perks need to have an ACTUAL downside.
If you use an exhaustion perk (except Head On or Adrenaline), you are effectively getting at least three bonus health states mid-chase per trial.
If you ever manage to weasel your way out of getting downed after using an exhaustion perk (killer abandons you after you sprint burst to Asylum, you get your DS off after getting "tunneled", or you unbreakable up), that number increases by one.
This is busted as hell, and with something this strong you'd expect downsides... but you'd be wrong.
"Downside" Number One: "Exhaustion"
All this means is that Exhaustion perks have a shared CD, so you can't have more than one extra life per chase (at least, not in this category).
Obviously "I only get one extra life per chase" is not a valid downside to that extra life, so lets move on to other "downsides".
"Downside" Number Two: "Outside Debuffs"
"If the killer exhausts me, I don't get my extra life!"
There are three killers with Exhaustion add-ons: Huntress, Pig, and Clown.
Pig doesn't count, because she only gets to apply the effect after she chases you.
Huntress and Clown can use their add-ons to counter Dead Hard, and maybe Lithe/Balanced if they're lucky (if the survivor pops the perk before giving LOS, not gonna happen). They CANNOT stop Sprint Burst.
There are two perks that can apply Exhaustion: Mindbreaker and Blood Echo.
Mindbreaker's effect is so tiny that you can shrug it off mid-chase, so it only serves to amplify other exhaustion effects. Hell, if you don't do that, Mindbreaker can even work against you by letting a Sprint Burst user 99 their perk more easily.
Blood Echo is actually pretty OK, but the "mass injury" requirement means it's only good on the select killers that have an easy time getting injuries on multiple targets... a large portion of which (Legion, Ghostface, Myers, and Wraith) are hard countered by Sprint Burst.
"Downside" Number Three: "But it's haaaaaaaaaard"
"I keep Sprint Bursting into the killer" or "I'm using Dead Hard on 150 ping", therefore the perks aren't overpowered.
Forgive me, but I'm gonna have to have a laugh at your expense.
The path around most loops is usually only about 8 meters. The ability to misjudge by a meter or get outplayed and then press E to course correct is absurd.
The distance between tiles, save for pre-programmed dead zones, is rarely more than 20 meters, so the ability to cover 18 meters in 3 seconds and then cover an additional 28 meters before the killer is actually able to close the distance you created is absurd; you're basically just guaranteed safety no matter where you go as long you aren't playing blindfolded.
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Yep, all exhaustion perks (except maybe Head On) need to be toned down a whole lot so they’re more in line with other non-exhaustion perks. The fact that you can get more value from 1 game of dead hard than 100 games of Babysitter or No One Left Behind is asinine.
I agree they should be slightly stronger than the average perk but to the degree they are now??? Hell no. At this point you may as well have a dedicated exhaustion perk slot because you’re TROLLING if you aren’t running exhaustion.
Finally someone else spoke up about this. There’s always the threads about dead hard or sprint burst, but honestly all the exhaustion perks are just wayyyy too impactful.
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They are better because the other perks are dog poo.
Depending on how you play you can get more use out of baby sitter than dead hard. As for No one left behind that perk is genuine trash now so I don’t know why it’s even being brought up.
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Other perks don't suck it's just that there are too many god-tier perks in the game. Alert is a great perk that provides a lot of info, but I wont ever run it because there are just so many better options.
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One side effect is that Dead Hard fails so often it's almost a joke. I don't think killers have any idea how often that perk just flat out does not work.
But sure, I get three free bonus health states mid chase when I'm exhausted on the ground three times a game.
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Exhaustion does feel a little inadequate. It's just a timer that doesn't go down if you're sprinting. I'd like it to add proper panting noises that make stealth impossible and make it easier to track mid-chase.
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More exhaustion nerfs? Are the previous ones not good enough because the perks are still useable?
Sure nerf exhaustion perks once you add a downside for using gen regression perks.
The only exhaustion perk nerf i'll ever consider is dh, the rest are fine as they not only are situational but need you to actively do something in a chase to proc them. Learn to play around them. If some has dh don't lunge, learn when they will dh through a pallet and expect you to lunge through so that you are able to just walk through and smack them. Proc sb's, go away and do somethign else and then come back. There are plenty of counters to exhaustion.
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Yeah, Lithe making slugs crawl faster on the ground after extended arm Freddy slaps the air 2 feet from the window is so OP.
Sprint Burst is literally the only one I could using tuned. Even then I'm not sure with the increase of dead zones.
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That would be a fair, legitimate downside. That way anyone using an Exhaustion perk in conjunction with Iron Will still has a period they can be tracked via audio until their Exhaustion recovers.
Perhaps if it also prevented fast vaults until recovered too?
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Entity forbid some perks AREN'T unusable garbage.
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You kept referencing Sprint Burst over and over like that's a relevant perk and it kinda invalidates your entire argument.
Just saying
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That would defeat the purpose of exhaustion perks since they are mainly used in chases. Making it slower to vault after using would make chases end way too quickly in my opinion. There has to be better downsides like making breathing more audible after its been used or something else.
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...no?
No it doesn't?
Sprint Burst is tied in popularity for most run exhaustion perk.
The fact there are one or two perks that are more overpowered than it doesn't make it balanced.
...lemme put it in a way you can understand.
GEE YOU'RE SURE REFERENCING SPIRIT A LOT, AS IF SHE'S RELEVANT. DON'T YOU KNOW NURSE IS THE BEST KILLER? WHY WOULD ANYONE PLAY SPIRIT? IT KINDA INVALIDATES YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT.
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Oh look it's the guy I mentioned earlier, who keeps trying to go for last second Dead Hards at 150 ping, dying because of it, and thinks that means Dead Hard isn't OP.
Well, I gotta keep my promise.
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Maybe. Wouldn't hit Dead Hard as much as the other perks, though, and that's likely the most problematic.
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Idk. Maybe im bias as a dr main. I love when survivors run sprint burst. It just ends their chases so quickly
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So I guess Bond, Botany, Deliverance, Desperate Measures, Detective's Hunch, Inner Strength, Iron Will, Kindred, Quick and Quiet, Self Care, Soul Guard, Spine Chill, We'll Make it, We're Gonna Live Forever, Deception, Flip Flop + Power Struggle, Alert, Any Means Necessary, Blood Pact, Breakdown, Breakout, Dance With Me, Empaty, Fixated, For THe People, Head On, Hope, Leader, Off The Record, Pharmacy, Poised, Resilience, and Appraisal just don't exist.
Nope.
The ONLY viable perks are DS+Unbreakable, BT, Adrenaline, and Exhaustion perks.
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No, because those nerfs didn't fix the damn problem.
All they did was make it impossible to use the effect twice in a chase.
They didn't do anything about fixing how insanely broken the actual effects were (except for Balanced Landing, and even then it's still top tier on maps where it's usable), which was the entire problem.
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First of all, Deliverance, Desperate Measures, Flip Flop, Power Struggle, Alert, AMN, Breakdown, Breakout, Dance With Me, For the People, Off the Record, Pharmacy, Poised ARE all garbage,. Seriously, did you sneak Off the Record in there thinking no one would notice?
And for the majority of the actually decent perks you listed. they do not have even remotely the same purpose as the Exhaustion perks, namely, to create distance in a chase. You run them with an Exhaustion perk, not as an alternative.
Exhaustion Perks are fine as is. There's nothing broken about perks being functional.
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- Free Kobe, nobody has to come save you
- Reset off of mass injuries in seconds
- Save yourself if the killer slugs you for even a few seconds
- Always know where the killer is, and always know where dead zones are
- Re-use pallets, as if you didn't have enough of them
- Create areas in which it is impossible for you to get hooked
- Render basement hooks impossible.
- Lose scratches, make a play
- Heal somebody to full after they get downed vaulting
- 80 seconds of using Object with ZERO downside
- Heal yourself in 10 seconds and get a massive hoard of medkits
- TEN SECONDS OF NO SCRATCHES, GOOD LUCK TRACKING THAT
A perk doesn't need to be busted to be functional.
As for "not serving the same purpose", that isn't a purpose a perk should serve, not directly anyway. Opening distance is what pallets are for.
A perk that gives you distance "just because", without even requiring you to DO anything, is absurd.
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I just wish Dead Hard had been combined with No Mither right from the very beginning. That way it wouldn’t be the nuisance perk that it is today.
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Reuse pallets.. That has a massive cooldown and only works if a killer avoids breaking pallets. At that point it's the killers fault.
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Exhaustion perks should apply a small hindered debuff
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No
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Why not?
Killers pay for crazy strong chase powers with movement speed.
Why shouldn't survivors have the same standards?
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Thing is, "not breaking a pallet" is often a good thing, since if you can chase them off the pallet without breaking it you can down them faster.
On a lot of unsafe or semisafe pallets, there's little value after they're dropped, so there's no reason to kick them in chase. If you come in with Any Means, that pallet is once again useful.
It's also somewhat useful in solo play against more casual players, because if you try to lift a safe pallet immediately after dropping it, a lot of killers will just look at you like you're an idiot, expecting a free hit. If you then cancel it at 99, you just bought your time 3 extra seconds AND asserted dominance.
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OK, make it a large hindered debuff
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There needs to be a perk that causes exhaustion upon hit or maybe even negates the use of exhaustion perks.
Dead Hard needs an actual counter.
As for a mechanical counter, maybe exhausted survivor(s) run at 3.8 m/s instead of 4.0 m/s
I mean YOU ARE EXHAUSTED, have it do something..
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Exhaustion perks are fine, more perks should be brought to the level of usefulness exhaustion perks have.
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