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Freddy is B tier at best and doesn't need nerfs.
- Almost all of his add-ons are complete and utter dogshit, either doing nothing appreciable or being actively detrimental.
- No, "Forever Freddy" is not OP. Even with the rest of his add-ons being as awful as they are, it's only second place (double teleport CD is better). It's a TWELVE PERCENT SLOW at its maximum potential, is usually gonna be a whole lot WORSE than that due to people being awake, and it does NOTHING in the early game, when a killer can lose three gens for one chase even IF they end it in 30 seconds.
- So what if he counters BT? One favorable interaction with survivor perks does not a strong killer make. Hell, the interaction isn't even entirely favorable; if somebody does manage to trigger it, smacking the unhooked survivor doesn't put them to sleep. Why? Because it was a solution they added back when BT's timer progressed outside the terror radius, and they just forgot to revert it when they fixed the underlying problem. Also, there are a ton of other perk interactions that balance out BT by interacting terrible with Freddy. The most obvious one is Object of Obsession, but there's also a ton of killer perks that Freddy can't use (infectious being the main one, but also any kind of stealth perk).
- At the start of the game, when killers are most vulnerable to losing gens with no recourse, Freddy literally has no power. Snares do nothing since nobody's awake, Projection is on CD, and you have completely normal stats (no, survivors misjudging your lunge due to your height is not a power),
- "OH MY GOD HE CAN CROSS THE MAP INSTANTLY THAT'S SO OP"... is what I would say if I was an idiot. Freddy can only teleport once every 45 seconds (a bit more frequently due to sleep reducing the CD, but it's still lengthy). It starts off on CD, so it's worthless at the beginning of the game (when you most need to cross the map) and can only target incomplete generators, meaning that not only is it not useful in chase 95% of the time, but it gets less and less useful as gens get done, until the end game where it's literally unusable.
- Snares are REALLY EASY to use, but they aren't that good. People like to call him a better Clown, and you're not entirely wrong there since the unlimited ammo is very good if you've been playing the same tile for a while already, but honestly there are a LOT of situations where Clown is outright stronger than Freddy, because Bottles can be used actively to catch up with a survivor the first time at a loop or in the open, where Snares are completely useless in those situations, since you need to spam them so much that you can't exactly have a bunch of them in 300 IQ spots to catch people in transit. Also, again, they're completely useless until survivors fall asleep, meaning they're completely useless for the first stages of the game.
I ain't saying he doesn't need changes; he's way too easy and boring as hell even when you're winning.
That said, changes shouldn't be aimed at making Freddy weaker; they should be aimed at raising his skill ceiling and removing the ability to play Freddy while simultaneously doing your taxes, wrapping Christmas presents, and making a quiche.
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I hope people read the end, because I was going to disagree but actually you mirror my exact thoughts on how Freddy changes should go.
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With everything he has it stacks up against the survivors which at least to me makes him A tier but at the bottom, if he gets nerfed yeah B tier.
He is literally brain dead easy to play it shows in his stats, as long as you are good at the basics of killer you can't do bad with him and some players doing bad is what brings down the kill rates for killers just look at nurse's below 50% kill rate.
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He surfers gebrush like all other killers, bit he is really strong. Teleport for map control, anti loop if a surv dreams, slow down addons, and oblivious after teleport. I think remove oblivious cane be good honestly.
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I just don't agree; his kill rate isn't so high by accident. Freddy has strong anti-loop, stealth, high mobility, passive slowdown, time wasting, and even tracking even in his base kit. He's the strongest user of PGTW & BBQ in the game due to his ability to teleport directly to gens. No other killer has passive slowdown add-ons, never mind one with this much else in his kit. You can't even remove dream pallets or snares without revealing your location, which is unlike other trap-based killers.
Having a weak power in the early game doesn't automatically drop you into the B tier. Most people would put Oni in A tier, for example, despite the fact that he's even weaker than Freddy in the early game due to his lack of stealth, his inability to get his power without hitting a survivor, etc. If you're having trouble in the early game, perks like Corrupt are great. Even if they just hide and wait it out, which is easier said than done against a killer that's invisible outside of the TR, you can still set up the map with snares or dream pallets, and by the time they start to push all survivors will be asleep and your teleport will be ready to use.
I agree that raising the skill ceiling is important for Freddy, but he needs a nerf too. I would remove his passive slowdown add-ons, remove the speed penalty for survivors waking each other up multiple times, and make his snares weaker (for example by forcing him to slow down to place one).
Edit: I would also rework his teleportation such that he is locked into a teleport by the time his husk physically starts appealing, even if the husk spawn animation is sped up. As is his husk can be all the way out of the ground and he can still cancel his teleport, which I think is pretty silly.
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I think he is fine the way he is personally. Its a good thing to have some killers with low skill ceiling to get new killer mains out there.
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Yeah, I mainly agree with these points. Freddy has a bad early and late game due to his power not being at his full potential. He for sure needs an addon pass as well. I don't really struggle too much against a Freddy, he's a strong killer but I don't think he's overpowered. His easy to use basekit is probably what accounts for the high kill rate.
All that aside, I just wanna play the old Freddy again. Please BHVR bring him back :(
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On the one hand I totally feel you, but on the other hand this probably won't be as useful for a killer that's part of a paid DLC along with goblin Quentin and six bad to mediocre perks. Iirc Freddy isn't playable on the Switch yet either, so that's another subset of the player base that's locked out. It kind of reminds me of putting beginner perks like Technician and Visionary on survivors that are locked behind a paywall (at least on most platforms); like, these things should be in the game, but as is they're not really helping the players they were made for.
I'd rather see nerfs to Freddy and buffs to mechanically-simple base-game killers like Trapper and Wraith. Trapper and Wraith are pretty easy to pick up but they're also pretty weak. Huntress, Nurse, and Hillbilly are strong, but they're also pretty hard to get good at. Meanwhile most of the base game survivors are pretty strong and easy enough to pick up. Some of their perks are prone to misuse by new players, like Self Care and Sprint Burst, and some are much more useful for experienced players, like Saboteur and Dead Hard, but still.
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Ive thought this for awhile but i think Freddy is actually one of the weakest killers in game people just kill themselves against him because dbd.
Wouldn't surprise me if they nerfed him for that reason, hes not fun for survivors. Good thing the killers that are fun are even weaker
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Freddy doesn't have a killrate by accident he has a high killrate because most people just "opt out" and suicide on hook against him because they find him boring. If you don't believe me just start any game in red ranks with at least one slow down perk and one slow down addon he has and you'll notice how frequently people opt out by just suiciding on hook without going fully struggle.
Make Freddy's snares more engaging to survivor somehow and remove all his slowdown addons and you'll notice that killrate will drop a lot. Is he easy to use? Yes. However his killrate isn't high because Freddy himself is a god like killer aside from between ranks 20-15.
My honest opinion is his basekit should have both powers but his snares should be turned into some sort of skillshot like a hybrid of Pyramid Head's power and Clown's effect. Just make him slash at the ground and he'll create a temporary puddle of blood that has reach to slow survivors. Suddenly Freddy is much more engaging to play against because there's a dodge element to him.
In my view his teleport is perfect, the clocks mechanics are perfect and the pallets are perfect. The issue is Snares and the Dream World causing oblivious disallowing Borrowed Time saves which in my view that was an unnecessary change from the start. Yes Dream World halves Freddy's terror radius but there wasn't a reason to cause oblivious because of it.
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Honestly, the issue is that Freddy is too easy to play not that he’s too strong at the highest level. The Devs don’t want him stomping Green and Purple ranks
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Just delete Freddy.
Jobs a good un
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I think I'm fine with him being the same, the only think I hate about him is dream snares and pallets, he can just through them down all willy nilly without any time or slowdown, you can't even crouch over them. And dream pallets are also annoying if you injured, you can't do any against it as pallets are useless if he has it. And although you have to be asleep to be effective your asleep most of the time during thr game and getting hit automatically puts you asleep making these problems more apparent.
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Freddy is S+ tier. The best killer in the game if used with good perks. Just because you don’t know how to use him doesn’t mean he’s not the best.
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People who complain about Freddy, it is because they lack skill for the game. They are people who complain about everything because they lose.
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*laughs in nurse
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Another thing, you know who else counters BT if played properly? Wraith, Myers, pig, huntress even, and Ghostface.
I feel like he should be on A tier though. I will admit though, he needs something to make him more skillful.
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The issue isn't that he is a strong killer at the top end. He's not. His skill ceiling is quite low.
The issue is that his skill FLOOR is fairly high. He's brainlessly easy to play as and win if you know almost nothing about him. He has too many answers to issues Killers deal with, despite how mediocre they might be.
I completely agree that he needs a rework, and I agree on how he needs to be reworked. He needs a higher skill ceiling while being way less brainless and forgiving when played badly. Right now, his numbers are high because he mindlessly eats players that play badly. That's not good. A bad Freddy vs bad Survivors should be a fairly equal match, but right now its weighted heavily in Freddys favor. That needs to change. On the other hand, a great Freddy should be able to thrive against great Survivors. It should feel equal.
Freddy totally needs a rework, but not because he's OP.
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I gotta disagree with pretty much everything except your last statement which I really agree with.
Freddy is a low skill, high reward autopilot killer. Everything is pretty much done for him and that makes him extremely boring and unengaging. Brings survivors into the dream world automatically. Antiloop Drop-and-forget snares that have both decent slowing power and duration that he never has to reload. A teleport that can allow him to pressure any generator on the map that he can cancel way too often. Nothing about this man is engaging. I don't want the devs to nerf just the numbers, I want them to nerf him in a way where he becomes engaging to play and requires some thought and effort.
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Love how the first thing you bring up is his add-ons. Yeah most of them are crap, but Paint Brush + Swing Chains is Freddy's version of Iri Head. If anything, this is the single best reason to rework Freddy.
I encourage you to play a dozen games with those add-ons and report how many 4Ks you got. I guarantee you'll win 90% of your games just because those add-ons break his kit.
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Nope. Freddy is better if used right with the right perks. Not only can he counter looping, he can apply tremendous pressure. Something that nurse can’t do amazingly well. Unless you slug.
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This is the problem imo. Pressure for free with passive sleeping (more with add ons), easily spammable snares, INSANE perk synergy (this is honestly the big one imo).
I've said this before but I mained old Freddy for close to two years, I dropped rework freddy after two weeks. He was stronger, yes. But his skill ceiling did not raise at all and I found him incredibly boring to play.
His uniqueness in the dream world visuals was also almost completely removed.
Old Freddy had no real power so his power was entirely in how knowledgable you were about when to drop chases, go for hooks, or find 3 survivors together and sleep them all whilst healthy to force regression or them wasting time.
New Freddy is the same basic M1 killer gameplay wise with an absolute shedload of additional utility and all the actual micro management aspects removed. You don't have to try or care about if survivors are in the dream. Because passive sleeping is so oppresive they almost always are. There's no brains with new freddy.
Throw on 1 or 2 gen/stalling perks, find a survivor, if they make it to a loop spam snares as setup is for low tiers. Hook them and tele to a gen, use pop and immediately get into another chase, rinse + repeat.
Old freddy was a true test of skill in your gen management and M1 chasing abilities, new Freddy is a true test of how many slowdown perks and addons you can use and win purely by attrition because no one is having fun (not even you) and the survivors just give up
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I agree but I don't. I have never felt so conflicted.
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Does the nurse not do that better? She can just say f u to all survivor strategies.
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How can they nurse apply gen pressure? She’s the best killer if you looked at all the killers without any perks. But Freddy with tinkerer, ruin, undying, and either bbq or pop goes the weasel is easily the best killer and loadout rn. Unless ruin is taken out early game, you’re guaranteed to win. Most of my games they don’t even get a gen done, maybe sometimes 1 or 2. Even against 4 SWF with flashlights and meta perks this build destroys.
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She can but shes considerably harder to play. Don't get me wrong, Nurse is stupid. But the devs seem to be okay with it as so few play her well.
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And as gibbly said, you can easily mess up when blinking with nurse. Where as that loadout with Freddy works just as well, possibly even better, without having to master the killer and be a damn pro.
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Lol, Freddy annihilates most solo groups, which is what I look into when I compare killer power. Only really bad Freddy's lose to the typical solo. It's ridiculous. No, he's definitely A tier the way he is. He has very strong map pressure, chase potential and everything has been done to make it stupidly difficult to see him coming.
Sure, don't nerf him, but change something about him. Maybe actually /earn/ survivors falling asleep instead of it being passive.
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I think the core problem with Freddy is his stall potential vs solos is truly absurd and without having people sharing information he is very oppressive.
I don't think much about him should change, but I would say maybe remove the oblivious effect. Slower repair for being asleep, being vulnerable to snares, and the teleportation already is huge, and obliviousness mostly affects solos compared to SWF and is the main 'difference maker' there. The teleportation also is strong vs solo, but at least serves a real purpose to the character in SWF matches other than making him a solo bully. Obliviousness takes his natural stall potential and pushes it up to 11 because now in addition to slower repairs and his ability to defend gens really well, you also just can't safely repair without lookouts tracking Freddy across the map with you and kinda NEED to go for those clocks, which is just too much overall. It becomes like he has old ruin mixed with Pigs' traps auto-trapping you constantly in solo.
I do overall like his design though, and its great killers are getting multiple abilities that synergize into one set despite being usable in different scenarios so its harder to lock a killer out of the game like some of the older killers. He just has ooooooooooooone too many things going for him in the same category (stall potential) to feel good to play against.
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Freddy is B tier, the problem with him is that he is by far the easiest killer to play and has way to much power for how brain dead he is to play. He's a pub smasher plain and simple, and I do agree that is not a good thing.
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Hilarious. Freddy is the only killer I can watch TV while reading a book, while having game minimized and still easily get a 4k without.
I agree we shouldn't nerf him either, because I only play killers later for the stupid farm of blood points, but my god, he is easily the best killer by a mile. He is the definition of easy mode.
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Lmaoo, exactly dude
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Lol the last part.
I agree, as much as I hate Freddy I don't think he's super strong. Just boring to play as and face.
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Just because you can mess up easily as nurse doesn't mean that freddy is better though. Nurse in the hands of an experienced player can destroy any survivor group. A full loadout makes her almost unstoppable, considering the player knows how to play her well.
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i didn’t say that though, I said that you have a chance of messing up as nurse but with Freddy you can get the job done as well as you could with nurse, possibly even better, without having to have 5k hours played as nurse just to master her. A full loadout makes nurse really good, but you’re across the map and gens are getting done on the other side there’s no way nurse will catch up in time. Nurse is the best killer if everything is played correctly and 100%. But Freddy with the correct loadout is right there with her, if not above her.
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Tbh most killers need nerfs that just fly or teleport across the ALREADY SMALL maps and hit and down people so quickly. It’s a stale experience playing survivor. 5 gens actually is quite a lot to do because teammates are constantly going down and dying.
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The thing is, Freddy is a one "demon" army. He can do everything for himself. He has map pressure, spamfest ability (which should not be a thing on any given killer), infinite uses with no reloads needed, no slowdowns, he can fake his teleport to apply pressure before he even gets there, his lullaby prevents terror-radius perks from being used, broken lunge, normal move speed, slowdowns while survivors are in the dream state and interactions to slow the game down (getting out of the dream world). As much as for killers like Spirit it is true that no killer power should be countered by perks (every power should have a way of countering it without a single perk equipped, or it means there is close to no counterplay for that), it is also true that Freddy has got it all. As he is now, he doesn't require minimal skill. As he was before, he was redundant and way too slow in his ttk.
What I would do, is to cut his charges in half. 6 snares and 4-5 pallets. That way he would actually have to be strategical on where he places stuff, without just going spamfest on everything he sees. He would then need a slowdown while placing snares/pallets. Teleport can stay as it is. Then, ofc, I would work on his lullaby denying TR perks, which is bs. Other than that, I don't see any more changes, really.
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"I ain't saying he doesn't need changes; he's way too easy and boring as hell even when you're winning.
That said, changes shouldn't be aimed at making Freddy weaker; they should be aimed at raising his skill ceiling and removing the ability to play Freddy while simultaneously doing your taxes, wrapping Christmas presents, and making a quiche."
aka a rework...a look at, exactly what they said
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lul
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Pretty sure forever freddy is rope chains dying light tinkerer thanaphobia and pop once it gets going it gets really annoying ngl
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