"Hillbilly and Nurse are still strong"

Nurse got created by the same people who put in Moris without hooking, BNPs which repair a full Gen, Infinites and many other stuff. This should show that the decision making during this period of time was not the best. Nurse is basically a design failure, which is still in the game because they cannot just remove her. And I am 100% sure that if she would not be in the game, she would never be created like this anymore.

The same people also created Killers like Wraith or Trapper and the rest of the game. Stuff that still works quite well these day. The time period, when she was created isn't that important. Even though she was already nerfed from her original state. Besides that I wouldn't call a Killer a design failure. While beeing strong, the majority of the player base always took her quite well. The great thing about Nurse is, that her base mechanics is that it is just a game changer. A killer who is designed to move mostly with her ability, and with complete different rules during chases is actually a quite great design. Besides that compared to other newly designed killers, she was designed with a lot of tells in mind. Survivor just rarely use it against her and she had a bunch of busted addons, that circumvented those tells.

And to be honest looking at Blight or Victors base mechanics it does look like the devs actually are getting back in designing killers with Nurse like playstyles. Blight is actually the closest who comes close to nurse in his style. On the other hand it's true, that Devs wouldn't probably design her that way directly. But mostly for "consistency" reasons. And there is still a lot wrong with their current design philosophy as well. Or at least questionable decisions.

Fun is 100% subjective. If you dont think certain Killers are fun, dont play them. You have many to choose from. Killers you dont like might be fun for others and Killers I dont like are a blast for other players. So "not fun" is not really an argument, since this is your opinion.

Problem is, that Nurse and Billy are base game killers. The others aren't. Thinking about the base game itself that argument is quite flawed. And yes, you can unlock killers with shards, but that takes quite some time. Not comparable with unlocking characters in other games. Of course with a good reason in mind. They are DLCs. (Even though I have to admit that Billys changes barely changed anything for me. The problematic stuff of him is still there, only his skillfull aspects aspect is affected by the change and doesn't really matter if you compare him to other stronger killers like Oni, who is a DLC killer)

Besides that. saying "fun is subjective" is a flawed argument as well. By that argument killers could camp you to death each game and say "well fun is subjective" or your opinion, that she is a "failed design" as well etc. Not everything is subjective in Game design. Otherwise there wouldn't be any critical acclaimed games, that are considered well designed etc. There is something like game feel. Something that might sound subjective in your mind, but is actually quite a thing that is kinda mutual shared between humans. Mostly because we all are humans, so perceiving thins mostly similar because of it is part of it. Actually our sense of fairness plays a role as well. Mutual experiences in a group lead to similar perceived feel of fairness. There wasn't that one person in DbD who decided certain things like tunneling/camping are unfair e.g. and shared that knowledge to everybody. Several people made the experience and perceived it that way.

And like said, there is good reason why so many players are calling current Nurse clunky. No matter how you look at it, but putting two cooldowns in parallel on a killer whose primarly movement is via her ability is not intuitive design. Also it's strange, when the majority of the player base is either ignoring the killer or every other new AddOn they designed for her over the ones, that reduce that second cooldown to bring her as close as possible to her old playstyle. I would call that a "failed design", because why even design those other AddOns. Why even design the those cooldowns?

And let's not forget the bugs, that need to be adressed and other clunky stuff of her ability like unblinkable spots on maps, which is unintuitive as well.

It is easier for Killers. Sorry if you still struggle to play Killer, this might just mean that you are not good enough.

That point I have to disagree as well. DbD is not a skill orientated game. There are so many things that influence the outcome, where losing a game meant bad luck or other circumstances. That counts for survivors as well. Especially because a single survivor has limited influence on the game as well. Besides that I would argue that people are actually good at adapting. And it's a game where 4 brains fight one after all. The killer might be the power role, but nothing change that fact. Their mistakes mean more and it's always more stressfull than survivor. But that's the core design of the game. And it works. So...

But really I heavily dislike the argument telling others they are just bad, because they struggle. I hate it when killer do this. I hate it when survivors do this as well. It's not really an argument, just denouncing people.

And BTW: I loved facing a good Nuse. Still love it and will always love it. I barely play her and when than with Spasmodic Breath, because that AddOn is more fun, then it should be on paper. Billy is also a killer I miss facing. Even though there was a time I was annoyed by him a long time ago, when he was basicly almost the only killer you faced in red ranks a long time ago.

When I needed a break from the monotony of other killers, I'd choose Nurse and throw on a one-blink, max movement speed combo.

That was the most consistent fun I could have as killer, but as you say, playing Nurse is not going to happen in the current state of the present or future.

I suppose we just used him differently. I loved to use his chainsaw in spots that should never work but that once in a blue moon would net me a hit against a survivor who temporarily became a potato. The number of whips and ludicrous shots I could try allowed me to have so much fun even though I had an accuracy of about 9%. On top of that, my high mouse sensitivity means I often miss back-revs, and I was accustomed and resigned to that.

Now, none of that is allowed. The devs didn't change how effective he could be and only made him less fun to play inefficiently. I really dislike that kind of design philosophy, and I didn't buy the game with the knowledge that that was the case. That's the main source of my discontentment: a disconnect between my expectations, what it used to be, and what it is becoming/has become.

but the roar is still the main reason I despise him now... lol

Really? Idk the fact that she renders practically any object or defense useless still makes her a top pick for me as i enjoy having the ability to basically free roam the plane. The cooldown as much as it may suck coming from old nurse is definitely justified as well. It helps to stop nurses from just zoning survivors so they can get easy hits/downs and makes them have to use their blinks more precisely rather than just spamming whenether they want.

I do agree that the billy base changes were silly and did make him less fun, but regardless he's still a fun killer I know alot of ppl still enjoy playing, me included. Flick billy was nerfed yes but it's still possible, you don't need charge addons to play flick billy and I can understand why charge addons were removed becaues they were very strong.

I will never not have fun with Hill Billy, long as I get to zoom around the map.

Yeah, I used to really enjoy old basekit nurse once I finally got halfway decent with her (easier said than done on console) but I guess playing her now just kind of... feels like work. Most of the time, when I stop playing a killer, it's because I had a horrendous 0 or 1k match. Last match I played with nurse was a 4k beatdown, but I am still always skipping her dailies whenever they pop up anymore. Guess we might have to agree to disagree about old basekit needing changed. I think omega blink and 3-5 blink nurse was ridiculous but old basekit seemed perfectly balanced to me. Extremely punishing if used the wrong way, extremely rewarding if used correctly. High risk, high reward to make up for the dozens of nurse matches where you got bodied by survivors while learning how to play her. Now, the high reward is still there, but the punishment is so much more extreme than it used to be.

Honestly, all my complaints would go away if they would just let dual recharge add-ons give you old basekit nurse. That way, you'd have the option to play old basekit, but you still wouldn't be able to use anything busted on nurse, since both her add-ons slots would be used up. I think there are still several killers in the current version of the game that would be more deserving of a nerf than old basekit nurse

Yep, I should've clarified that - I do agree that flick billy can still work, it just feels a whole lot more difficult to pull off than before. I guess the ideal add-on pass for me would've just been to make spark plug the only charge add-on or something like that. Or just remove the charge reduction from using a single engraving. I do agree insta-saw was an issue

Well,nobody is going to argue that her addons were absolutely busted and carried a lot of players.

I just think that the blink recharge mechanic is pretty useless,because the original aim of this change was to make good nurses less oppressive in chase and give survivors a bit of a chance,but the thing is it didn't do anything against good nurse players.They still absolutely murder your team in seconds.

All it did was making it harder and annoying for bad and average nurses (which were already manageable to play against).

Define "Spamming their blinks" for a killer who primarly moves with that ability and that had already a downside in visuals/cooldown before the changes.