Decisive Strike
In my opinion, Decisive Strike should be removed for higher rank players. That would nearly fix the balance problems in higher ranks.
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They'll change it. (With that No Mither State)
I think that will do it^^-1 -
We are still planning on changing DS.
The tests we shown during stream didn't go through so we are looking into other ways to change DS right now. It won't be on the upcoming PTB sadly
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In my opinion, non-obsession DS should activate randomly between 35-99% wiggle meter without notification.
That would make it super hard and lessen the chance to activate before the killer reaches the hook and you really need to focus on that
Also, make obsession DS unable to keep (use or gone) may be good. What do you guys think?
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I think the DS should be removed and replaced by some kind of item, like a shard of glass or knife.
That way you could counter DS with a franklin's.5 -
@AnimeChannelDE said:
(With that No Mither State)It won't actually give you No Mither afaik, it'll just make you unable to heal back to healthy state.
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I'll x-post some of the ideas I had on the reddit.
1) Survivors can only hit the button for x seconds after being picked up, not save it until right before they're hooked (thereby wasting the killer's time walking to a hook).
2) Stun the killer in place, reduce the wiggle bar by a %, change the perk entirely to something else that doesn't cause the killer to instantly drop someone.
3) Can only be used on your first or second pickup.
4) Only the obsession can use the perk and it does absolutely nothing for anyone else who takes it in.
5) Just tie it into No Mither and give Laurie a new perk entirely. No Mither is garbage as it is, anyway.
As another poster in this thread suggested further up, DS could activate on it's own randomly. You'd still get off the killers shoulder, but the situation may not favour you as much as it would upon desired activation.
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DS needs real, hard counters. It already has soft counters like Enduring and situational soft counters like dropping on stairs.
DS isn't so bad in its current obsession form, and could even have the numbers buffed more so the survivor can fully get away. But if so, it should have a negative. Such as they can't heal ever again. This would be a buff to No Mither.
For everyone else, i think a short stun would be best. It should be a stun almost right away. A stun that is reduced in length by Enduring. And that can also be countered by IG. It would also help distinguish AG and IG, as AG seems by far the better one currently. Any one who escapes killers grasp after a stun should also not be able to heal ever again.
A powerful perk needs a harsh downside. Such as Ruin and Devour Hope have.
I think once more, stronger obsession perks come out for killer, or if they buff dying light for example, it should make peope less inclined to use it.
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To be honest i think the incoming DS nerf is enough.
It will now be a last resort perk instead of a perk that will save you if you get downed at the beginning of the game so that you can continue the loop.
And even if you survivors DS you early game it will be a lot easier for you as a killer, sure people will still escape end game with it but that is the purpose of the perk.Never mind, it seems that is not how they are going to change the perk.
Still think they should do it this way, anyway i am in for surprises.0 -
I like the idea of not being able to heal for the rest of the match after using DS. Think that's a good enough nerf for now. Just gotta wait and see how it works out before making anymore changes to it.
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Funny thing is Mclean said in the second to last stream that... its OP if you use it early. And its OP if you use it late. So the 3 of them just kind of agreed its always OP. The no healing thing is only good if they have to use it early.
I'm almost down for this, so long as it has a genuine counter. I think that for non obsessions, it should be either AG or IG. Make it activate after 75 or 80% so that a skilled killer can avoid it. I'd rather just see 20% buff to wiggle speed for non obsessions. AND it still has to be activated. So basically you have to decide early on if you're going to risk using it now or save for later. OR it should be forced to be used on first carry only.
Its simple really. Make people use skill. And provide counters.
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DS for BBQC, fair trade.
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@Visionmaker said:
DS for BBQC, fair trade.Only two killers can fully make use of BBQ and its aura reading. I do agree that the perk is insane on those two characters but, I don't believe that BBQ is comparable to DS. DS much more comparable to NOED as they both reward bad players for messing up their objective.
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Nothing is currently worse than DS, except maybe SB. Those two are hands down the most OP in the game by a mile. BBQ is no where near on that level. But i do agree BBQ needs a perk that can hard counter it. Something to allow pure stealth players to not have to suffer because someone else messed up. A perk like that would be good for most killers anyway, as its one less perk that can cause them real problems. If everyone is using BBQ, it should have a counter perk.
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@Techn0 said:
@Visionmaker said:
DS for BBQC, fair trade.Only two killers can fully make use of BBQ and its aura reading. I do agree that the perk is insane on those two characters but, I don't believe that BBQ is comparable to DS. DS much more comparable to NOED as they both reward bad players for messing up their objective.
And you only see two killers consistently at Rank 1.
NOED is a crutch, but it's a less frustrating crutch than BBQC, which counters are as pointless and gimmicky as hook dribbling, spinning, or timing attack CDs...
Killer has BBQC? Better exploit generator auras or perform acrobatics to confuse the killer! Honestly promotes such dumb gameplay, just because your teammate made a mistake across the map.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Techn0 said:
@Visionmaker said:
DS for BBQC, fair trade.Only two killers can fully make use of BBQ and its aura reading. I do agree that the perk is insane on those two characters but, I don't believe that BBQ is comparable to DS. DS much more comparable to NOED as they both reward bad players for messing up their objective.
And you only see two killers consistently at Rank 1.
NOED is a crutch, but it's a less frustrating crutch than BBQC, which counters are as pointless and gimmicky as hook dribbling, spinning, or timing attack CDs...
Killer has BBQC? Better exploit generator auras or perform acrobatics to confuse the killer! Honestly promotes such dumb gameplay, just because your teammate made a mistake across the map.
Yeah, it at the very least needs a perk that counters it. Preferably buff sole survivor.
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If they could do it, i think a kind of scan effect would be cool. Or make it so that for 5 or 6 seconds, when you look in the direction of a survivor further than x metres, you see a glimpse of them for 1 second. Basically make it over less quickly, but not have to walk one way for 4 seconds and then turn around. Its kinda silly.
Actually what i think would be even better is to simply reveal to the killer which generators have been worked on for say... the last 30 seconds. That way you can either keep doing a gen throughout the carrying and hook phase, or you can stop the moment someone is downed and not give away your location.
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@not_Queen said:
We are still planning on changing DS.
The tests we shown during stream didn't go through so we are looking into other ways to change DS right now. It won't be on the upcoming PTB sadlywere those changes that were shown the ones that leave the player who uses it unable to heal to full? i personally was a big fan of that idea and i'm just wondering if it's going to go through as of now
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The idea isn't thrown away, the execution wasn't what we needed right now.
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@not_Queen said:
The idea isn't thrown away, the execution wasn't what we needed right now.Love the fact that you, our hero (Not_Queen - wait should that be heroine?) is actually reading all this stuff on here. I know you guys read steam forums too, but i imagine this forum will be the main place you check. A lot of us with 1k+ hours have some good ideas and want to help the balance team to get it right. So its great to have a whole balance section to talk about this.
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Im fine with the current state of DS. What gets annoying when you come across a group of survivors that all run DS and Self Care like its mandatory. Maybe add in a diminishing returns system when you have players running the multiple of the same perk.0
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@not_Queen said:
We are still planning on changing DS.
The tests we shown during stream didn't go through so we are looking into other ways to change DS right now. It won't be on the upcoming PTB sadlyPhew.
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@sgtfuzz said:
Im fine with the current state of DS. What gets annoying when you come across a group of survivors that all run DS and Self Care like its mandatory. Maybe add in a diminishing returns system when you have players running the multiple of the same perk.SWF group all running self care, ds, dead hard, and sprint burst is rage inducing.
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It’s my most hated perk besides sprint burst which I have big issues with. I like that it’s being changed thoughnot_Queen said:We are still planning on changing DS. The tests we shown during stream didn't go through so we are looking into other ways to change DS right now. It won't be on the upcoming PTB sadly DS just makes all the time you spent chasing and downing a wast in the end 0 -
I completely agree. And a diminishing return system done right would promote a the use of a variety of perks to be used. And right now i feel like there are too many "mandatory" perks that survivors and killers have to take in order to have a chance to be successful.Michael_Myers said:@sgtfuzz said:
Im fine with the current state of DS. What gets annoying when you come across a group of survivors that all run DS and Self Care like its mandatory. Maybe add in a diminishing returns system when you have players running the multiple of the same perk.SWF group all running self care, ds, dead hard, and sprint burst is rage inducing.
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I'd be fine with just giving non obsessions nothing. Completely wasted perk. Yes that does benefit swf but thats a whole other issue. Theres really no reason 3 other players should get a perk equal to the obsession. That one player should be carrying all the pressure and risk. At the very least the other 3 should get a very weak version. 1 second on the escape instead of 3.sgtfuzz said:
I completely agree. And a diminishing return system done right would promote a the use of a variety of perks to be used. And right now i feel like there are too many "mandatory" perks that survivors and killers have to take in order to have a chance to be successful.Michael_Myers said:@sgtfuzz said:
Im fine with the current state of DS. What gets annoying when you come across a group of survivors that all run DS and Self Care like its mandatory. Maybe add in a diminishing returns system when you have players running the multiple of the same perk.SWF group all running self care, ds, dead hard, and sprint burst is rage inducing.
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I've always wanted DS to either be an exhaustion perk that you can't pair with SB or require an item to use. If you can't tie it with SB I feel like a massive amount of its problems would be solved. If it required an item it would be countered by Franklins and would be seen less on flashlight squads. DS is at its best when you pair it with other perks and items, I think we need to take those combinations away from it in order to make it more fair.
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DS is like Ruin. Both are useless and should be taken out. It prolongs the trial if both are over used.
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DS makes the time of chasing and downing feeble. It’s not useless it’s just OP.0
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DS and SB are broken and OP right now both facilitate looping.SaltyKiller said:@sorrowen said:
DS makes the time of chasing and downing feeble. It’s not useless it’s just OP.It's horribly OP. That's why its constantly used at high rank.
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exhaustion is now a downside. any more than 'not having a perk' is a bad side for DS after you use it.
SB has infinite use and enables someone to get to a pallet who otherwise may not. DS pretty much guarantees they get to a pallet when they definitely couldnt have - and its a bonus. but its also one time.Both are crazy OP.
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@not_Queen said:
We are still planning on changing DS.
The tests we shown during stream didn't go through so we are looking into other ways to change DS right now. It won't be on the upcoming PTB sadly@not_Queen said:
The idea isn't thrown away, the execution wasn't what we needed right now.I believe the best course of action, would be to have only the obsession ha e the capability to use it, but with it being one person, have it a little stronger; say 5 second stun or so, with no drawback. This would keep the perk in its roots, while greatly reducing the pressure and damage of having four Desicive Strikes.
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@not_Queen said:
We are still planning on changing DS.
The tests we shown during stream didn't go through so we are looking into other ways to change DS right now. It won't be on the upcoming PTB sadlyI would suggest having DS either slow the Killer down while carrying the Survivor for X amount of seconds or having it force the Killer to stop moving for X amount of seconds. The instant escape part should be removed. The Obsession could either have instant use or increased wiggle speed. Non-obsessions would still have to fill up the wiggle bar to X%.
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@not_Queen said:
We are still planning on changing DS.
The tests we shown during stream didn't go through so we are looking into other ways to change DS right now. It won't be on the upcoming PTB sadlyOh thank you. Those new changes were pretty terrible.
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Well, I still believe my idea has merit. It would make decisive strike almost never used (due to risk of having a perk that does NOTHING if you’re not obsession) and would keep the core idea, while not being OP whatsoever. What would be better than only taking one DS a game, while having the survivors waste perk slots? That’s really beneficial to killers. Changing it completely seems a little too much.SaltyKiller said:@Jack11803 said:
I believe the best course of action, would be to have only the obsession ha e the capability to use it, but with it being one person, have it a little stronger; say 5 second stun or so, with no drawback. This would keep the perk in its roots, while greatly reducing the pressure and damage of having four Desicive Strikes.
No. Change it completely. Have DS do something else.
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The main thing about decisive strike that people forget, the perk itself is strong, but NOT that strong in concept, what’s too strong is pallet looping, and DS enables that. DS does need a nerf, definitely, but pallet looping is the main culprit to blame regarding that perk.Jack11803 said:
Well, I still believe my idea has merit. It would make decisive strike almost never used (due to risk of having a perk that does NOTHING if you’re not obsession) and would keep the core idea, while not being OP whatsoever. What would be better than only taking one DS a game, while having the survivors waste perk slots? That’s really beneficial to killers. Changing it completely seems a little too much.SaltyKiller said:@Jack11803 said:
I believe the best course of action, would be to have only the obsession ha e the capability to use it, but with it being one person, have it a little stronger; say 5 second stun or so, with no drawback. This would keep the perk in its roots, while greatly reducing the pressure and damage of having four Desicive Strikes.
No. Change it completely. Have DS do something else.
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@SaltyKiller said:
@ThePeeje said:
DS needs real, hard counters. It already has soft counters like Enduring and situational soft counters like dropping on stairs.Enduring is not a soft counter to DS. Not unless, by some chance, you have level 3 Enduring and they level 1 DS. If they have level 3 DS then Enduring is not going to do anything meaningful. There's still going to be enough time for them to get half way across the map. The only exception to that is if you get extremely lucky and down them near the basement stairs.
That's why i called it a soft counter. It does counter it in some weak way. Therefore its a soft counter. But DS, like many other things, needs a true counter.. I think BBQ should have a counter too. More counters please BHVR
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@HookMeDaddy said:
DS is like Ruin. Both are useless and should be taken out. It prolongs the trial if both are over used.Ruin is needed if you want the game to last more than 5 minutes
but yes, in high ranks, it's pretty much useless since survivors find it in 10 seconds1 -
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It would be nice if DS was removed for higher ranked players.
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notice back in 2018 when DS change is coming..... its still the same in 2021....... but ruin undying made it was 3 months before started getting nerfed? hey devs do any of you play killer at high rank? I am asking this as a serious question and if so do you stream? I want to see some of our devs go against what high rank killers go against and say " yea this is fine"
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dude what the hell. Why would you necrobump this. Notqueens post got my hopes up. God it sucks knowing the hope I felt back then was a massive DS buff.
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No point trying to revive a dead post.
People see a DS thread and see a dev replied to it and think it's current. Don't reply to this thread.
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