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Face camping and Leaving players downed and unhooked
Why are there not stronger penalties for this? This makes me not want to play at all. More and more terrible players are maining killers and relying on face camping and leaving players unhooked to guarantee a full clear win. Why isnt there a mechanic that will allow players to get up if they are left to bleed on the ground? They just leave you there and you cant fix generators, open the gate or do anything. You just sit there and watch the screen for however long it takes you to bleed out.
Comments
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Facecamping almost guarantees a Survivor win.
Slugging everyone guarantees a Killer de-pip.
You could bring Unbreakable, which let's you get up off the ground.
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I feel this is a new player and sees Unbreakable as a wasted perk slot, and fills thier 4 perks with Spine Chill, Urban Evasion, Self Care, and Premonition.
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Ok, I'm going to cut you some slack because you are clearly new.
- There aren't penalties for those things (per say) because they are valid tactics.
- There are Perks that let you get back up from the ground (Unbreakable and No Mither).
- Camping, poorly done, is damaging to the Killer more than it is to the TEAM of Survivors.
That is the rub. You guys are a TEAM and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. It means until you and your peers learn to coordinate, how to do safe rescues, how not to bunch up, how to LOOP, etc. you are in for a rough ride. I have confidence that you will learn these things though.
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Cut me some slack? Ok champ. I will cut you some slack because clearly you are one of these people who is so bad at this game you have to abuse mechanics to win. Here is a thought... Learn to play. Plenty of killers arent so noobish that they have to do this. They max points and still manage to win with full clears hooking players and moving along. But hey, if that is the only way you can win then I guess you will just have to keep those training wheels on. lol
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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few - its easy to say that when you are the many. When you queue for 10 mins for die in 2 mins because of toxic play. It's why I have always suggested shared BP for all survivors. If you die to let others win, why should you be penalised in the BP?
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Killer's job is to kill. Survivor's job is to survive (by avoiding detection and winning chases if detected). Any methods employed to pull that off are valid. It sucks to be camped, sure, but it's not impossible for your pals to still pull off saves and get away. You got slugged? Yeah it sucks, but again, where are your team mates to pick you up, hmm? 1) Blame your team, not the Killer who is just doing their job, and 2) don't get caught next time. Sorry but that's the reality of the matter.
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I just snorted Dr. Pepper out of my nose I laughed so hard. Yeah... that's definitely me. :) Anytime you want lessons, we can put a custom game together. I'd be happy to give you an education.
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You could just run Unbreakable or soul guard or something....
Also; why is no one picking you up? How is that the killer's fault, why should a killer be punished in any way for a survivor error?
God, can you imagine suddenly you have to pick up those people with DS or you get punished for not accepting a punishment? Like dear god how one sided could you possibly be looking at things here?
It's rarely even that long you are on the ground mind you, Unbreakable picks yourself up in a very short time and I almost never am left on the ground long enough to even get back up:
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In other words, find competent players and play SWF.
Then watch them all cry and complain when that type of gameplay doesn't work.
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No facecamping does not. You really think baby survs know how to rush gens
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Then it isn't the Killer's fault, it's the Survivors.
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I play both Killer and Survivor, so I know what it is like in both roles. Survivor is, for better or for worse, about getting as many Survivors out as possible. Sometimes that means an individual (perhaps yourself) isn't going to make it. Sometimes you do things that ensure you won't make it. Oddly enough, while getting out alive does provide a nice BP boost, it isn't the most important thing. Pretty much you want to:
Do at least two Generators.
Unhook 1-2 others and/or heal some of them up.
Get in a few chases.
Cleanse a totem or two.
*If you do a wide variety of things you will find our BP works out just fine whether you get out alive or not. The same is true for Killers. They actually LOSE BP by taking out the Survivors the quickest, most efficient way. You don't just want to win; you want to win with style. That means lots of chases, downs, and hooks. I've had three Survivors get away and still earned Pips. I've had all the Survivors get out and managed to NOT lose a Pip (barely). Likewise, I've gotten a 4K and lost a Pip. The scoring systems are not particularly logical. The DEV wanted to give people multiple different ways to rate themselves, so that you can always win by at least one of them. :)
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And yet again it simply means it doesn't guarantee anything. If I facecamp at killer in highranks I can win and yet I can lose. It is dependent on both sides. If survivors rush I can still win if I'm good and if they do rush and I suck I can just as easily lose
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If you facecamp and they keep throwing themselves at you, they deserve to lose.
I'm not really seeing an issue here.
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I slug on a frequent basis and still get merciless or ruthless.
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I was more referring to slugging everyone at the beginning and letting them bleedout.
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The issue is what you said is false. No matter what reason a team loses, IF they lose to facecamping your point is wrong. And thats a very close minded way of thinking. Thats like saying if you're good at survivor you're guaranteed to escape. Yeah if you're good you for a chance, but there are other factors. Therefore you cant use deserve to lose or they gave you this or that as a defense, because you could say it towards everything.
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A problem I've been seeing very often lately is killers (In higher ranks) camping until someone reaches stage 2.
I know killer players preach that camping always equals survivors winning but that's only if the survivors split up and maximize gen rush which doesn't always happen or it results in a nasty 3 gen scenario.
A killer who camps someone until they hit stage 2 and then goes to pressure gens is really disappointing for so many reasons because it's still scummy. When you factor in slowdown it makes this strategy even more viable. And if you try to go for the save what's stopping them from forcing a trade and then camping that person until stage 2? After a certain point, survivors know they HAVE to save one another but it feels bad when you can't do it if someone is being camped hard, they'll be tunneled without BT or you just straight up trade.
It's kind of bs that people's answer to this is "just do gens and let your teammate struggle if they're being camped" like this is the kind of stuff that makes me wish there was a base camaraderie effect for killers who camp a hooked survivor purposely just to get them to stage 2 so they die on hook.
But whatever, it's a "valid strategy".
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I slugged Claudette to death for being ######### teammate. She didn't run away from me and just sat on gen. When I hooked her she tried to kobe, but someone managed to save her. She sat down on same gen ignoring me. So I just decided to slug her to death. She didn't even recover and just lay on same spot. I don't know why she was playing like that.
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Are there farmbots out there? I think I read something about that on here but could be misinformation on my part.
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The dude with a single-digit post count that was literally unaware there are three perks to get you off the ground just told someone else to learn to play. Mkay.
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So you're saying that if a team of Rank 20's all throw themselves at hook, they should win? Your logic is flawed.
Facecamping is a bad play that CAN be punished, just like Survivors throwing themselves at hook can be punished. End of story.
By the way, they tried a punishment for camping/facecamping. It did not work, Survivors abused it.
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I mean... You're not wrong but who's to blame at this point? The baby survivors or the killer?
I agree btw that facecamping is one of those unhealthy mechanics of the game that shouldn't be plasterfixed with perks but should be changed another way. I just don't think it's all black and white when it comes to how effective face camping is. Most of the time, it doesn't work out for the killer because survivors know what they're doing and usually when it does work, it's because one of the survivors made a mistake.
You can beat face campers so I suppose if something has counterplay, it's balanced. It doesn't change the fact that it's just not fun gameplay and really just ruins the game for the survivors though, hence why I believe it should be changed (unless it's endgame camping I guess).
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It all depands on when it happens.
If all gens are done and you get on the hook than expect that the killer will camp you.
1 gen left and all 4 survivors left, than you can expect that the killer will slug to try and get grip on the situation and waste time of the remaining survivors.
At these situations I don't care if the killer does it.
But at the start of a match, yeah it is their playstyle but is it a fun playstyle?
Na not so much.
I've had a match not long ago where I was slugged from the start and that is all that happened.
My game ended on the ground bleeding out, not been hooked once and only been slugged 👍
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It is a valid strategy. This game is about agency, i.e. choices. Everything Survivors and Killers do affects the outcome of the game (for better or for worse). Camping, tunneling, slugging, and even the Mori are all simply tools. Most of them are niche, and when applied incorrectly leave the Killer vulnerable. Whether or not the Survivors punish mistakes is up to them. Most of the bad things that happen to Survivors are the result of Survivor choices (their own and their peers). The Killer's choices are a bit more narrow to be honest, and that is the nature of a 4v1 game. Survivors have more strategies open to them because they can coordinate. It doesn't mean they will; but they have the option. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Given that GOOD Survivors can take someone off the hook right in front of someone squatting point blank and face camping, I don't really buy any excuses for why someone gets to Stage-2 or dies on the hook. That isn't the Killer's choice; that is a call the Survivor's made. The problem right now is a profound lack of understanding of the Survivor role, and the demands it places. To win, you need to be getting into chases, taking protection hits, and even your time on the hook. The best Survivor teams understand this and don't shy away from taking their lumps, or even being martyrs if the situation calls for it.
The so-called problem you are seeing "lately" is nothing new. I see it all the time when I play Killer, and I'm not even camping. The number of people getting to 2nd Stage is astounding in the Solo Que. Why? I personally blame the rise and every growing numbers of the SWF. 3-Person SWF poison the well because they treat the Red Shirt (poor soul thrown in with them) as a disposable asset. This has created an every Survivor for him/herself mentality. There just isn't the coordination or TRUST anymore for Solo Que to act. When this happens, of course the Killer profits.
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I hope you realize your assumption is dead wrong. I never said anything like that. I'm saying whether someone wins or loses has multiple factors. And therefore nothing is guaranteed to win or lose.
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No offense but I'm not gonna respond to everything you said. I agree, but it was only to kinda show that nothing is guaranteed.
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Face camping is pointless, but slugging is fun. By slugging my survivors I can then pick one up and enjoy a stress free chase. Getting downed is either a misplay by the survivor or outplayed by me, they need to work harder on avoiding the killer's attention.
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Because in the right circumstances they can become essential strategies. I say this as someone who despises Slugging because it ican become borderline abusive.
I'll give you an example: Say you hook a survivor, leave hook and start chasing another survivor. The survivor being chased decides they want to go in the direction of the hook and go down suspiciously close to hook... meanwhile another survivor rushes to save (to prevent a 2nd stage). At this point the killer can use their recklessness against them and leave someone on the ground, meanwhile they never meant to "camp".
The problem is that there are WAY too many scenarios and outcomes to what accounts as "camping". Like, a killer could simply camp if they want to OR the situation presented itself where camping was "warranted".
I do agree that survivors should have more options outside of Perks in order to counter what is already considered a built-in action/mechanic. Because it isn't ok to me when a killer excessively uses these actions without ANY downside from the game itself. Like, slugging for example... if the killer has slugged for a tremendous amount of time, survivors should get a small buff on their recovery rate... etc. It doesn't even have to be anything huge, but at least it sort of feels more balanced in those situations.
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In the case of face camping, its despicable and shouldnt be done.
Slugging is aight tho, sometimes killers dont have time to hook you or youre more useful down
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I have to disagree on that last bit completely. When I play with my friends and we have a 3 stack SWF we don't screw over the 4th person like that but more often than not they leave US for dead lol
But hey everyone has different experiences. Not all SWF groups are toxic though. Better to group up and have fun than be at the mercy of 3 other blind solo queue survivors.
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Killer face camping? Oh look, free gens!
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That's incorrect.
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lets face it 80/90% of killers in dbd are camper tunneller noobs
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especially now with console killers, my god bro
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There are sometimes when I'll do that. But only in games where survivors are really great about making the most of the 60 second hook stages. They do 40s of a gen before they save. It's a smart thing to do, and I do it to, but the counter to me is just to confirm the stage and then go back to normal game play.
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You are right. What I said was incorrect, but I meant more generally like certain gameplay styles that arent obvious throwing. If you decide to not try and just go afk thats obviously a guaranteed loss, so I should have specified. Albeit I thought you'd understand my statements i wouldn't have to. Anywho I digress, facecamping isn't a guaranteed win nor loss.
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On it's own, perhaps.
But it opens the door for Survivors to EASILY win
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Yes that is true, I wish I could get teammates like that tho
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Why do killers camp?
Because we are forced to because stupid people run in and try and free someone just put on the hook.
Why do killers tunnel?
Because like it or not, we are on a time crunch and since currently the goal is to spend as little time in the trial as possible, many killers make the decision that it is better to oust someone early. eatting through second chances and getting a kill asap.
Why do killers slug?
Because there are so many ways to circumvent being downed, picked up, and hooked that many killers decided screw it ill deal with you later.
Are there exceptions to this rule?
Absolutely, some people are new and dont know other ways to play, some people are spiteful because of a bad match or even death threats from a previous game and of course, some people just wanna screw up your day.
However ultimately the only way to stop dealing with this is to interact more, be less toxic. And of course, as killers are always told everytime the game is changed "Adapt and git gud"
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If this would be a 100% thing you have to wonder why so many red ranks do it, especially on killers that have no disadvantageous counter like bubba (to the point where red ranks say the counter against him is giving up (they say it more convoluted though)) or freddy...
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You do realize that not everyone has access to this perk, right? While a very solid solution and an AMAZING perk to run, it is not necessarily the answer. Not every survivor had the ability to obtain it and even if they do that is no guarantee that it will come about in the blood web.
I agree, you make very real and valid points- these strategies ARE penalized, but multiple, back to back games of "hit me while I'm hooked" or "leave me and do gens" is completely obnoxious, depips the survivor (personal experience) leave the very real taste of "the people in this game suck" in the mouth. I don't think that they're penalized hard enough for the poor play. Then when the erroneously climb to high ranks they cannot fathom why they are being handed their loss on a silver platter when they play against the SWF groups who literally eat these killers for an appetizer.
Personally (it's my opinion, take it for what it's worth) I think it's a weak way to play and they do it for the ease of blood pointage. The other end of the key board? Who cares, I got my points so what if they depiped and actually obtained their rank through hard work and decent gameplay? Sadly, though, there is no true way to track what is going on so unfortunately untill survivors can climb out of the 20-10 range you'll be faced with these almost constantly. After that it seems to *sort of* improve.
It's my.own experience, just as valid as anyone elses and not intended to make anyone feel down or out of sorts. Hope this helps :)
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Your example, to me at least, wouldn't necessarily be camping, but instead a form of patrolling. Personally, camping is sitting to prevent unhooking and/ or to witness the sacrifice stage and may or may not include hitting. The first time prevents screams and I actually appreciate when the killer does it, but after that it becomes obnoxious.
I do agree, however, that sometimes slugging may be necessary, like when gens are being completed too fast- this creates pressure. What I don't agree with is some of the BS that comes with it- slugging 4 at once and leaving them, slugging Survivor Number 2 and dropping them under the hook of Survivor Number 1 and guarding them both...
Yes a lot of players will crawl to a no hook zone if all 4 are slugged, but at that point do you really blame them, especially when there hasn't been a single gen done? Or even just one? And not a survivor amongst them had a perk to allow a dying state rescue at that. The way I see it, it may be a tad butt sore on both sides...
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The term "camping" is too broad in normal use. That is why I use the following:
- Squatting: This is when they Killer stands point blank at the hook, what some call face camping.
- Lurking: This is where the Killer stays very close but hides so the rescuers and hooked can't see (usually involves Perks).
- Camping: This is a series of short range patrols that never stray too far from the hook so one can intercept.
That way when I'm in a SWF (not that often) I can say, "We got a Lurker!" or "We got a Squatter!" Everyone will know EXACTLY what I mean.
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What I am saying is that the game doesn't know what "CAMPING" means, in order to implement downsides.
I'll give you an easier example. Imagine you hook the one person and the other 3 survivors come flocking at the hook... all while the killer just standing at hook. How are you suppose to implement a debuff to that killer who is simply there because he was forced there? It doesn't make any sense.
On the same page though, I do agree that flat out (intentional) camping should be at least looked at and give survivors MORE options aside from being forced to bring perks. Because then it isn't like a straight up punishment but it will also discourage it since now the killer would have to deal with another survivor built-in buff.
Just to be clear, I am actually in agreement on the fact that many killers feel like they wanna camp, simply because they can. The rest of the team being able to pop 2-3 gens in the amount of time it takes to die through a hook stage is NOT playing the game, and most certainly isn't fun for the person being a victim of this boring mechanic.
I don't think I have ever in the almost 5k hours I have in this game ever met a person that was like "Yeah I had an extremely amazing experience playing this game. My team got out while I just chilled there on the hook".
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If they're camping that hard then it will take more than one survivor for a rescure- one to distract and one to unhook. Three are in danger but sometimes it's the only option. I never said it was a good one lol
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Slugging is necessary at times to maintain momentumn. Seconds matter,and it does the killer no good to basically disable themselves for around ten seconds to hook a survivor when a chase is within reach.
Facecamping works sometimes. If a survivor fails an unhook and becomes slugged right next to a hooked survivor, the best option the killer has is to sit on both of them. It'd be asking the killer to literally play to lose to make them do otherwise.
If facecamping and excessive slugging are giving survivors trouble as effective tactics to the point where at least two of them can't escape, I think that's a sign that they are being punished for making mistakes.
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Excessive camping and slugging shouldn't be allowed, period.
If the devs want to keep it the way it is, at least give survivors options to either soft-counter or buff them in specific circumstances. There is no reason why a survivor should have to be slugged for the entirety of their dying state. That is just unbalanced and unfun. There are literally other games who don't allow mechanics like that to be that broken. Look at RE Resistance for example. The game literally re-spawns you at a safe point after being downed, because otherwise killers there would capitalize on an unbalanced feature.
You can say what you want about them being "tactics" but I am sure you are also one of those people who want DS nerfed, or complain about virtually a big percentage of the DBD red rank community bringing the same perks. It is BECAUSE killers who use those mechanics even when they did not have to, do it anyway. It is accessible during every single match, regardless of what survivors bring.
You can try to justify it, but it doesn't make it any less broken.
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You have to juke Bubba and make him bump into objects.
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I would agree, but attempts to punish those strats have proven to be futile.
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