Undying should only reveal...
Survivor auras on active totems. This way, if the killer wishes to maximize their aura reading potential, they would have to run more Hex Perks.
Comments
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DS should only work if you're being tunneled.
Dead Hard should only work if the killer swings for a hit.
Unbreakable should only work if at least one of your team mates is still up.
I mean, if we're going to set arbitrary conditions on things, let's look at much more broken perks than a perk that already has counters like Undying.
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Here we go with the whataboutism
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the aura reading should only be on dull totems because if it was only on hex’s then there would be no point in running thrill of the hunt
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No
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DS should deactivate when a survivor works on an objective, goes in a locker, gets fully healed or if someone else hooked after they have been saved.
Dead hard is fine as is.
Unbreakable is fine as is.
Undying alone is fine, but when it is equipped with ruin, on a high mobility killer such as Spirit, Freddy or Billy, it becomes more powerful than it has any right to be. Not everyone plays SWF and can coordinate with one another.
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Thrill of the hunt should just be changed if they make this change to Undying.
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No.
Undying doesn’t work if there are no dull totems.
Undying how it currently works gives killers the option to defend dull totems (if they so choose)
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This makes the most sense. Thanks for opening up my eyes. I am rather slow.
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It only seems to be whataboutism if survivor perks are brought up. Other way around and it's "fair"
And it's not "whataboutism" - because those perks for survivor have existed for literal years and none of which have counters in many cases. Undying hasn't even existed for 4 months yet and has counters in literally every case.
Try running the perks to counter them instead of running your crutches.
"bUt WhAtAbOutIsM"
Quit parroting Scott.
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That's not the same thing. Undying gives too much advantage for the wrong reasons.
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No problem. A lot of players overlook this, so don’t feel bad.
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If we are changing Undying we must change DS, the most broken perk in the game, rewards survivors for making a bad play.
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Here we go about undying again.
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I agree that this is getting annoying but I can’t think of a way to nerf it it’s unnerfable I can’t nerf a perk that’s so balanced to the point where I can’t change it
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What?
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which is the main problem with it?
whats the counter to the hexes being transformed onto a dull totem? cleansing dulls preemtively.
so by defending dull totems Undying basically negates its own downside.
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dead hard: just walk up to them don’t lunge and let them waste it
unbreakable is fine
DS needs changes, but to counter you can either eat the DS or slug them and go pressure but if they have unbreakable then your screwed
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Undying alone isn't much of a problem. The problem is when you're playing solo and it is used with a high mobility killer that can get to you within seconds. TheClownIsKing made a good point about why it shouldn't be changed to what I suggested.
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Define "Wrong reasons"?
DS doesn't reward you with literal invincibility for 60 seconds for being hooked, aka screwing up and getting caught, aka the wrong reasons?
Dead Hard doesn't reward you for...doing literally nothing? I would consider that "the wrong reasons".
Unbreakable doesn't give you a free out just because you screwed up and got knocked down? Again, the wrong reasons.
But no, let's nerf undying, even though it has 4 perks that counter different aspects of it, as well as items/addons.
Survivors, man. It's all about their fun.
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Because survivors think they can just genrush and win but when they finally have to do something other than rushing gens they get angry but it’s just so simple cleanse the totems and go back to work
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Not really.
The killer can’t know in advance where the dull totems are, and they simply need to have luck on their side that they’re looking in the general direction of a revealed survivors aura during that 6 second window.
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Typical. Now, how does one "bait" a dead hard *FOR DISTANCE*, which is literally what I specifically referenced.
So, yes. Tell me the counter to a Dead Hard for distance.
"You can counter DS by slugging" - That's literally like me saying "just do bones" in reference to Undying, but somehow that's not considered a counter, despite there actually being perks/items/addons to facilitate with this, which is more than what exists to assist killers with countering DS.
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Oh. Well.. I played a game and watched my replay. From the moment the game started, til me clearing the 5th totem, it only took me 2 mins and 37 seconds.
I did it on my own. Solo survivor.
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Undying was basically created because perks like ruin were being destroyed in like....seconds at the start of the match. It exists as expending a perk slot in order to defend totems.
If it only lit up once a survivor started cleansing, they would just cleanse the second the killer is far enough away he could not possibly make it back- the point of it as it is now; is that the killer if paying attention will see the aura regardless, and has to make a choice.
The distance is literally just like 2 meters it's not like it's some crippling amount of aura reveal; it's literally just a tiny heads up so they have a second or two to start heading that way, that's all it's for.
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It doesn't need a nerf. If survivors actually adapted to it and used the tools that exist to fight it instead if insisting on continuing to run the same busted ass meta they've been running for 4 years, it would be a pretty garbage perk. But no, it's KILLERS who have to change their ways, after less than 4 months.
Get off it.
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Good job if you can cleanse all 5 totems in 2 minutes then there’s no excuse for all these complainers to just get up and do there bones
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Calm down, first of all how does one bait a dead hard for distance you walk up to them they waste it you walk up and down simple what’s so hard to understand
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That alone makes it too OP. If solos have automatically lost due to the perk equipped, then it is very unfair.
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I'll repeat it, since you don't seem to actually know what a dead hard for distance is (which means you're new to the game and shouldn't be attempting a debate with me) - How do you bait a DEAD HARD FOR DISTANCE, which is done before a killer is within reach to hit the survivor in order to artificially extend a chase by using it to reach a pallet/vault.
The answer is "You can't". There is no counter. It can't be baited. Period. You clearly have no idea what a dead hard for distance is if you're seriously saying to bait it out.
Sounds a lot like the survivor meta. Except, there's far more "survivor won because of their perks" situations than there are the other way around.
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that is about as much of a good argument as "but survivors can miss the DS skillcheck" - yes it is true, but any killer that currently has nothing better to do will most likely spot someone on a dull, should they dare to touch it (or even go somewhat near it).
the only possible counter to that would be coordination between the survivors, to ensure that people only touch totems while the killer is chasing someone / that there are at least two people doing totems at the same time. that means any solo team has an instant disadvantage against this perk - which leads to it being as much of a solo team destroyer as it currently is.
thanks to the aura reveal Undying just widens the gap between solo and SWF, which, in short, isnt healthy for the game.
besides that, its not fair how people are being revealed with Undying without getting any notification about it - especially on dull totems. sometimes they dont even know hexes exist in their trial, yet they are already screwed.
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There's literally 2 perks that exist to hide your aura. Use them. You have the tools. You don't get to whine for a nerf just because you refuse to use them.
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oh you mean the perk that is only usable 3 times (3 times that arent even limited to totems, so any additional aura reveal perk from the killer just burns it even faster) before turning into a dead perk slot for the rest of the game that also only works when everyone runs it, as otherwise the killer will still get the benefit from Undyings aura reveal, just on someone else?
and the one that only works for a limited time after being unhooked, which means the killer is in the middle of their snowball game already and pobaply already got the benefits of the Undying aura reveal anyway?
these two?
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Yep. Even if they don't sound great, they exist, and they work.
You have the tools. Use them. If you refuse, you don't have a right to complain.
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"they dont sound great"?
my man, one is literally useless and the second one is so heavily restricted that it becomes useless like a minute into the trial, if it isnt already when not everyone runs it (which just ties back to the SWF vs solo gap btw).
you can use that phrase when we have some ACTUAL counter perks to it / buff these two to actually work properly and be worth running.
for example, if Off The Record was to hide your aura for the first minute or two of every trial, you would have a point there.
currently however, you dont.
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I think it should be the opposite.
Thrill of Hunt give noti on Hex.
So Undying should reveal aura on dull only.
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I think what he's suggesting is better than what we have. 9/10 times the auras of survivors passing the totems is useless information. I'd much rather be able to see when someone is on my totem at any time, because there's been multiple times where I looked at my totem, didn't see an aura, and then it gets destroyed. I didn't look in the 6-second window so I guess my easily defendable perk is now gone. It's like you're on the perk's time instead of it working for you!
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It is whataboutism because your bringing up irrelevant things to discrete the suggestions made in the original post.
And you seem to be biased towards survivors. What about killers and their crutches, their overpowered addons their crutches perks?
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Yeah let’s make it an F tier perk because ppl can’t do more than hold M1 on a gen lol
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You need to ping mods like @MandyTalk or @Gay Myers (Luzi) for closing threads
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It's relevant though - because the reasons given are nonsense.
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Again, you have the tools, you choose not to use them, you don't get to complain. Argument over. You have no counter.
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The thing is, to see if a perk is too strong and needs a change, you need to compare it to others. Because by itself, HEX:Undying is fine. A small aura reading perk that shows auras near totems for 6 seconds. I dont see why that should be an issue.
The other effect only comes into play when used with other hex-perks, thus depending a lot on their strength.
But its not enough to look at that and then decide, you do have to look at the other options a killer have, and compare it to the options survivors have.
But if you do that, someone crys whataboutism, making the whole discussion obsolete.
If you cant compare it, it is not too strong, because it can only be to strong in comparison and combination.
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Done!! For the future, please ping moderators instead of devs :) Devs do not moderate the forums!
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