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Found a perk that makes DS less punishing
It's our good old Meyers perk: Play With Your Food. Before you get stunned with DS, either from a locker or picking someone up, you have a sliver of time to turn your camera. Use that time to face a direction you'll think they'll run in front of so you'll start a chase on the obsession while stunned. Then you leave them and you're 5% faster. I also use Nemesis to make it more consistent and STBFL because it also benefits from leaving the obsession alone. I'd take this combo over Spirit Fury/Enduring any day. I suggest PWYF because current version DS is part of the game and it's probably here to stay, so it's time to make counters (or as close as you can get to a counter) with what we've got. It's a very commonly run perk after all. This strat encourages taking the DS early, which I've heard people recommend because DS is so much more powerful when used in the late game. If you can get a stack or 2 or 3 of PWYF you're gonna have so much more mobility. I'd go as far as to say it fixes low mobility M1 killers.
Sorry for the wall of text. What are your thoughts?
Comments
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It's still a wonder why it's not affected by Unnerving Presence and Enduring. Enduring reduces your stun duration is reduced, but not for DS, nope: DS is an exception! Unnerving Presence even says plainly: "Triggered Skill Checks' success zones are reduced by 40/50/60 %." Well, for every skillcheck in the game EXCEPT DS, because DS is an exception again! They basically nerfed the only perks that could counter it so that they don't counter it anymore, as if DS was too weak of a perk and nobody wanted to use it.
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I get the frustration but I wouldn't want to see Enduring become something like a "free tunnel perk" because you get a reduced stun. However I do believe DS should be reworked, but I don't think this is the way to do it. Tunnellers should always be punished imo.
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It’s good use of making do with what Killers have access to.
Slightly off topic, but I wonder if we’ll ever see a killer perk that accrues tokens from stuns, cultivating in some sort of powerful effect once enough tokens are gained?
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The mindset that tunnelers need to be punished is kinda bad imo. It leads to the defensive anti tunnel perk to be used as a weapon.
A better way would be to reward non tunnelers. If injured people repaired gens slower and survivors gained a speed boost for every death survivor. The game would reward the killer for going for the 12 hook game keeping everyone alive as long as possible.
Maybe not the best solution but just an example. Make it so that spreading damage is more worthwhile rather then eliminating survivors and tunneling wouldn't be such a problem.
Rewarding good behavior is always more effective then punishing bad behavior.
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Take knock out, third seal and sloppy butcher on a hag and then just leave people on the ground after you down them; kill people by using the bleedout timer instead of sacrificing them. Unless everyone is down and no longer has unbreakable; then hook them of course..
Works with trapper and honing stone as well somewhat. Works on insta down killers too without knockout if you take like undying in its place.
You'll get plenty of insults, death threats and obscenities postgame- but you'll never be decisive striked or flashlight stunned out of a pickup ever again lol. Can't sabo a hook if you never use one xDDD
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Doesnt affect enduring because it made head on useless, which was a problem as it was an always active passive that took no brains to use.
And compromising with just making it affect ds would be a cop put design change.
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" Enduring reduces your stun duration is reduced, but not for DS, nope: DS is an exception!"
Enduring reduces the effectiveness of pallet stuns by, iirc, 40%/45%/50%. Decisive Strike is not a pallet stun because you don't use a pallet.
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well sure...but like....what are you even doing? if you actually resort to limiting your gameplay to that then idk why you would even sitll play in the first place.
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Did they nerf Unnerving Presence the same time as they nerfed Enduring? I was always under the impression Unnerving Presence continued to help against DS... but can't say I've ever been in a scenario to test this.
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The reason I say tunnelers should always be punished comes from the idea that tunneling is just bad game design, but you're not wrong. You can look at it from 2 ways:
a) you punish the people tunneling
b) you reward the people that aren't tunneling
Atm non-tunnelers and non-campers already are being rewarded with more BP and it's clearly not working out because people just don't care. When you combine this with the current version of DS, which already tries to punish tunneling, I guess I just lean more to (a). I'm just pointing out that tunneling is a problem and buffing Enduring like this might encourage it, but in the end as long as the problem is taken care off, I really don't mind which route they take.
Your idea looks very interesting though and would be neat if it actually worked, but I doubt they'll do something like this with how boring gens actually are. Just goes to show there's multiple ways and multiple ideas to tackle the problem really.
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It used to it's not like it's a limitation of their code
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i used myers yesterday with play with your food , 4 out of 5 matchs was 4k xD
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Yeah, pretty much something like Jason's rage mode in F13. I've thought of that as well. Not sure exactly how it would work or if it would be a new perk, but it would be nice to be rewarded on maps where there are 20+ pallets.
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This only works because due to this playstyle you have depipped so far that you are playing against new Lvl 20 survivors.
It does sound like fun for a game or two though
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I've always thought that the survivor(s) should have a repair nerf if they are injured. Logically, they're bleeding out a lot and have serious wounds.. so focusing on how to repair a generator, would be difficult, whereas in a chase, they're probably on adrenaline and don't feel the pain too much.
Gameplay wise, it would incentive to heal, slowing down the game by a fair amount for the killer, as an injured survivor can still do everything a healthy survivor can do.. which is kind of silly.
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I actually had an idea for a perk like that, kind of. It's called Misanthropy, and I made it for a Plague Doctor killer called The Crow.
Your heart holds contempt for those that would stand in your way. When a survivor blinds or stuns you with a Pallet or Locker, this perk activates. You gain 3/4/5% increased movement speed until you injure a survivor, after which this perk deactivates.
"You were all wrong to cross me, now you'll pay with your blood!" -Bethany Ingrid
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DS's skill check is small enough. I already disagree with it being affected by Doctor's madness skill check interference. I did think that Enduring should affect it though.
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I don't like slugging. Few people do. I'll do it when I'm having a bad game or someone was acting toxic, but I just find it boring. Third Seal seems like one of those hexes like Devour and Lullaby that always get broken instantly. It has caught me off guard as a survivor though.
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Which would buff Legion, and he really needs it.
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Yeah, hexes are wasted perk slots against SWFs, which often destroy totems within seconds. My favorite build is the slugging Bubba, I always pick it after I get destroyed by overly optimized SWF group to blow some steam. Although even then I have to suffer from DS, since in order to play optimally you have to hook the slugs when you can't find anyone else. It feels especially bad when they use it at the gates: this shouldn't be happening and DS should deactivate after the end-game collapse, since it just gives them literal immortality and a free escape.
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you'd be sacrificing a perk slot for something that gets max 4 uses.. and that's too strong? lol ok
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it used to work on DS, most certainly.. then BHVR changed the parameters of Enduring to only include pallet stuns. It was definitely nerfed because of DS crutch users
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enduring also doesnt work in pallet saves which is ridiculous
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Rancor is better.
Survivors will hesitate to DS you as the gens finish. They don't want to get mori'd.
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It actually wasn't, but okay.
Checking the patch notes gives no reasons as to why it was changed, so I'm not sure how you know for certain (let me point you to "definitely") but, okay.
If I was to take a guess, though, I'd say that it was changed because it let you grab someone out of a locker after they'd stunned you with Head On at tier 3. However, like I said, nothing in the patch notes.
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What could be wrong with the locker grabs? If you stunned the killer - run away, don't hide in the same locker again. Problem solved. It doesn't even sound like a potential reason, they just wanted to make that DLC perk even more OP.
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Enduring would reduce the stun time of Head On to the point where they could grab you whilst you're mid Head On animation.
That was why I said it could've changed because of that.
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Flawed logic. If they're solos, they won't know you have Rancor until they become it, so they're not gonna be deterred by something they don't know you have. If they're SWF they'll make sure you never even see the obsession after 5 gens are done.
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Because it's fun as hell every once in a while. Especially fun to throw on when they have a key and a map.
Nope rank 1, all red rank 4 - 1 survivors; still pretty darn effective. But yes, it's very fun every once in a while; not something to do every game. This absolutely works against survivors of all ranks however if you are good enough with them, but if you are not that great with trapper you may need hag or someone else instead.
You would be surprised, it stays up surprisingly long especially because people can't detect it with things like maps or detectives hunch. They have to find it manually. Also knockout can do a lot of work on it's own sometimes anyways.
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If it's a SWF then they definitely won't want to DS you so as long as you have some way to track survivors and find the obsession they won't want to do it. So win win. Either they purposely avoid DS'ing you or you kill them.
And for solos it's a nice little surprise. Makes them regret having DS'd you.
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I know a good perk:
- Get ######### good and stop tunneling.
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I remember when it was all stuns not pallet stuns yes it did include ds and why did they buff the stun from 3s to 5 that was the reason why they made to only pallet stuns because you had 1.5s to get to a window or pallet (pretty busted ngl) but ontop of nerfing enduring to only pallet stuns had ds stun last 5s
(Nsver thought about this until now but why did they increase stun time?)
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Wish I could show you a clip where in the time I killed someone on hook hooked another slugged and got stuned by ds (player was full health btw)
It's fine tho I tunneled her so hard she got healthy off it and ds was used properly that game because of how hard I I tunneled her
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Thanks but i will pass ... i see that bs every day in almost every game.
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But you tell him not to tunnel and be good at the game when things like that can happen? Huh
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Just slug till bleed out, if you never hook anyone you will never activate nor get hit by DS.
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That's boring.
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Enduring only effects pallet stuns because dis was too weak when you had it along with perks like head on would be useless
unnerving presence doesn’t effect doctor or pig skill checks because they want them to be consistent like ds
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You know what really makes head-on useless? Iron maiden and I'm all ears together. I use both on my oni and I've never been head-oned since I got him. Plenty try but when you know they're there and you know it doesn't matter if they're healthy, you can bait it out and m1.
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I absolutely disagree that tunnelers should be punished.
Why? Why is tunneling bad? Because it's not fun to lose? That's literally the only reason. It's a legitimate strategy, and it's generally the right one, if you're playing to win.
Polite gameplay says maybe the killer shouldn't just eject someone from the game right away, but until there's some kind of mechanic that punishes gen humpers, the idea that tunnelers should be punished is flat out wrong.
Like the other guy suggested, you need to incentivize non-tunneling gameplay, if that's what you want. Trying to punish people for doing the smart, efficient thing is counterintuitive and will just leads to people finding ways around it.
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I've said before, sometimes you're just forced to tunnel. So people who say you should never tunnel basically mean you should lose instead, and that if you're having to tunnel and play catch-up, it's because you somehow played bad that game. It's such flawed logic.
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The devs and mods have repeatedly stated that tunnelling is a valid game strategy so why should someone following a valid strategy get punished?
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You're asking the wrong person.
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