No joke can we add counter-play to the spirit please

You know if you lead with "im tired of having to suicide on hook because i can't beat X killer" it kind of invalidates the whole point of the post.

The first step to counterplay would be to stop sabotaging the team and actually play against the killer so you can learn....wait ######### am i talking about? Im sorry i forgot survivor was supposed to be a cake walk and all killers should be played against exactly the same. They should just take away her dumbass phasing and make her an M1 killer. She would be much more fun to play against then

A lot of the issues with many of the standard killers is many of them do not get enough opportunities to create 50/50's in the game. This is large part to why Spirit is strong. Her power enables more possible 50/50 to occur during a match. In fact a lot of survivor's power in the game revolves on DENYING the possibility to get 50/50'd. People may ask, what do you mean by denying 5050's.

Take long wall with single pallet with the short side. what to most survivors do when they get to this loop? The people who greed loops will attempt to loop long wall and this gives opportunity for the killer to red glow mindgame the survivor, but a large majority of survivors will not even attempt to loop this pallet. they'll just drop the pallet immediately because they know they camp the pallet using the vantage point and the pallet is practically an infinity even at blood 2-3 when dropped. When you break it, the survivor just holds shift+W which again wastes the killers time and gives zero opportunity to mind game the survivor.

Even look at other classic loops in the game. Shack window has two very common mindgames. the first one is double back for when a survivor attempts to vault the shack window and the other common mindgame is double vault into the shack and back out when a survivor is turning around the corner of a shack. Both of these are 50/50's but I would say they're slanted 50/50's. The survivor does not need greed window nor do they need to reenter the shack, they could just use outer rim of shack wall and when a killer does catch up from bloodlust, Just use shack pallet to reset it followed by more Shift+W for another 30-40 seconds. If your teammate efficient at generators, you will not really get punished for it in vast majority of cases. This stuff exists for.... cow loops in farm maps, the fun bus in azeroth maps, jungle gyms and virtually every other safe pallet in the entire game.

All that spirit really accomplishes with her power is she has potential to counter SHIFT+W(through speed) and she counters playing safe by adding elements of risk vs reward for survivor at loops(through unpredictability/stealth). Somehow, these two aspects are apparently unfair for survivor and *lack counter-play* for survivor. If anything, a lot of survivor's gameplay lacks counter-play for the killer side. not the other way around. you would think that the opportunity to get a hit on every loop would be standard gameplay, but it is simply not. when that becomes true, then apparently that becomes a problem.

No mither and iron will stack. There's your counterplay, have fun!

There's no 'learn and adapt' aspect to this game except developing better basic mechanics and game sense. Basic mechanics doesn't stop/mitigate most killer's powers/perk and game sense won't help you when stopping/mitigating a power/perk requires a perk of your own.

'Learn and Adapt' would have legitimacy if Survivors could make accurate, educated guesses about who the killer was, instead of playing Reverse Russian Roulette with their perks.

None of that matters when the counters to said powers exist in perks, which are picked pre-game, which is when you actually need to know what's going on in order to "Learn and Adapt."

I see Jigsaw boxes, great, now what? Basic Mechanics and Game Sense. Oh, lucky day, I have Spine Chill too.

Look at that, a bear trap! What am I going to do? Basic Mechanics and Game Sense. Damn, really wish I had Small Game though.

So, again, 'Learn and Adapt' means almost nothing without the ability to actually adapt to your former experience. Your only options are improving Basic Mechanics and Game Sense, it's complete luck after that if you don't run the meta 'Don't touch me there, That's my Nono square' builds.

My advice:

Keep suiciding untill BHVR do some ######### about this broken killer.

Spirit mains can claim there is counterplay but it hasn't !!!

How you counter something you can't see and hear a little and no mindgame ?

The true is that versing Spirit we can't do anything that we learned from the game and want to use to protect ourselves. ( Scott words but is the true ! )

Nurse is another broken mechanic but at least you can mindgame and see where she is gonna blink, double back, keep running and mix all up.

Spirit don't need a nerf ... is mechanic that should never exist !

If your suiciding to a killer in my survivor games stop playing we don't need you in our games. Period we dont nneed some entitled player throwing a tantrum and refuses to play because you don't like rodney the spirit.

This issues could it be that maybe its a problem with the survivor role? Maybe survivor base kit is lacking in depth. A lot of base kit changes need to be introduced to adjust and make the game more exciting. Noisemakers, noise manipulation and some form of teleport points would add a lot of nuances to roles that need it. Modern killers continue to evolve in design but survivor is the same stale crap. Tearing nuanced killer down for the sake of balancing around a basic survivor kit with limited nuances is foolish. Lets look at whats meta for the survivor role we have ds, unbreakable exhaustion perk and finally iron will/borrowed time(flex slot). How can you talk about the counterplay of spirit and ignore the fact that maybe survivor needs more means to manipulate information via noise control and scratch mark generation.

Its so frustrating how were trying to balance around such broken killer while broken survivor perks exist and are restricting killer design cough twins cough. Of course someone will chime back to hard to program even though most of these killer changes could have an equivalent survivor change that would be equally as easy to fix. Also suiciding on hooks is a crappy move I don't mind the killer getting dicked by the player leaving that means little to them but you have an obligation as a player to play out your games for the sake of your teammates.

double cooldown addons mean 5 second uptime 10 second cooldown 2 second charge up time and 7.0 m/s movement speed

that means before the spirit starts using her power she has to be within 7 meters of you or she doesn't have enough speed to land a hit if you just hold w

see even with that I know enough to formulate a plan of attack which is abuse her other abysmal attributes that aren't being buffed by addons

and also it takes her 15 seconds per try if she uses her full power thats still 15 seconds time for your team hit or not hit

True but you keep saying she's 'out playable', I also struggle with spirit and sometimes nurse.

So tell me how you outplay them.

but having nothing up to chance ever is boring, wouldn't opening chests be less fun if every item inside was yellow or brown

Never really understood the whole "playing the game is the counter" argument.

Alright heres the gist

a killer is much weaker in a 4v1 than a 3v1 even if the survivors are only applying light pressure

having 1 survivor on objectives at all times is easily done in a 4v1 and harder to manage in a 3v1

The continual mounting pressure of having 4 people and progress usually is enough to win the game

thats why most killers tunnel someone out early

Ya, I'm more than aware of the basic premise. The flaw here is thinking 4 random people, with zero history and no basic method of communication can coordinate their efforts with minimal information, on a regular basis.

I've seen high rank red players make the same mistakes: as a survivor and as a killer. It's Russian roulette and therefore chance. Chance isn't a counter.

Incorrect.

I never said I personally had an issue with Spirit, I'm pointing out the response "The counter is just to play the game" or any watered down/more complicated version of it is not actual counterplay. Counterplay is by definition a proactive action an individual or a group can take to specifically force a reaction from an offensive force. The threat of generators being completed and the gate opening is the motivating factor of the Killer to pursue Survivors; The completion of generators and escape through gates is the sole factor between success or failure. You're trying to argue the counter to the killer is to "Do Gens," but that's not the counter, that's the core gameplay.

Core gameplay is that gameplay which is most frequently undertaken and indispensable. Saying this is counterplay undermines the idea of what counterplay is, it's the difference between shooting your gun in an FPS and throwing a flashbang around the corner. Also, your example is terrible, because RPS is literally a guessing game. If you think because Paper wins against Rock, that means theres counterplay, you have little business telling others what is and isn't.