The Amanda's Letter add-on for The Pig has been Kill Switched due to an issue with incorrect RBT count.
http://dbd.game/killswitch
I am tired of hearing “nerf DS”
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nah. the first iteration had zero counters. the second variation, you could hook 3 survivors without much threat, but the obsession was instant ds. and now everyone is immune from the killer for 60 seconds while free to do gens each time they are hooked.
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No, they nerfed undying because it was too much for solo Q.
How are solo Q players entitled? They have the most miserable experience in this game
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it reaaally isnt, just run small game or better yet, detective hunch, bye bye 2 / 4 perks
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Remember when killers could dribble survivors to the hook?
First they nerfed how often a killer can drop a survivor, then they removed it completely.
Same goes for Enduring. First it could reduce the time of the stun, then they removed it completely.
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while also buffing it from a 3 second stun to a 5 second stun.
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Ah yes, first they increased the time of the stun, then they removed the stun completely.
Funny how the dropping survivors and increased stun time haven´t been reversed since then.
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Its like there is a legitimate, frustrating problem that people want changed and the people who can change it refuse to do anything about it. But don't worry, Undying got nerfed because it "promoted unhealthy play"...
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DS is fine as a true anti-tunnel perk, but the current version isn't that. The current version is just too strong in competent players hands. They can sit on gens, and rescue people from the hook with little punishment. Especially if they run it with UB.
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You forgot the part where enduring doesn't work against it any more.
And there have only really been 3 changes.
- everyone could use ds when picked up or save it for later
- The obsession can use DS when picked up but the other 3 survivors needed to wiggle to 35%
- DS activates after being hooked with a 60s timer. Stun time increased to 5 seconds. Enduring nerfed to not work on non pallet stuns.
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I came to the conclusion, because killers used to be able to dribble survivors to the hook.
Killers could drop the survivor up to 5 times before he broke free. Survivors complained, and it was reduced to 3 times.
Killers could use Enduring to reduce the stun duration. Survivors complained, and they increased the stun duration. But since that wasn´t enough, shortly later, they removed the reduced stun of Enduring for DS hits.
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Dribbling was not a consistent counter. One body block, or poor hook placement (and hook placement was much less consistent back then) and you got DSed anyway.
At least you can actually play around DS most of the time now and you don’t just straight up lose your first hook. I think you’re either new or forgetting how horribly unfair and busted old DS was if you think it’s worse now. It was absolutely worse before.
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How do you play around it? Unbreakable and WGLF exist.
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You're not supposed to play around it. You are supposed to just accept that DS and UB is a thing and keep on being a play thing for competent survivors.
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Good point. Yeah the player feedback clearly mattered, when it was regarding Undying Ruin. Which was swiftly adressed. Unlike Unbreakable DS.
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And why exactly did Undying require a nerf? It didn´t see more action than DS.
Yeah, the survivor meta hasn´t changed in 3 years. Not by a single perk. The 5 most used perks of 2017 are still the 5 most used perks in 2021.
The ONLY time a good survivor perk was really nerfed, was Mettle of Man. Other than that, survivor perks always got a nerfbuff. Nerfing some parts and greatly buffing other parts.
This is a previledge, only survivor perks have.
Whenever there was a great killer perk(combo) it was swiftly removed. Devs even said on a stream, that they don´t want gen slowdown perks to synergize.
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Nerf DS
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Undying Ruin was only strong against lazy survivors that wouldn´t cleanse a totem, even if their life depended on it.
As you mentioned, there are plenty of counters like Maps or Detectives. For example, i changed 1 perk of my loadout and usually end up cleansing 4 or 5 totems per match while playing solo. Not much coordination needed, since totem spawns are painfully obvious. Like out in the middle of nowhere. Or next to a gen.
The new Undying is basically a Haunted Grounds without the exposed status. Which is... really kinda meh.
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DS got "nerfed" 3 times. Correct, but it is as strong as it always was. It is still meta (like SB and DH) and there is no way around it.
We´ll make it is still the most powerful healing perk and the only reason it´s not meta is, because people don´t like to sacrifice one of the other perk slots to heal others faster. When healing yourself is so much more efficient. 2 survivors healing each other take the same amount of time as 2 survivors healing themselves with SC. So instead of wasting time by finding the others, survivors just use SC.
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Each and every single gen slowdown perk is weak af. None of them would make a difference when playing against skilled survivors.
- Ruin: can be ignored. No effect while repairing a gen. Killer can only chase 1 survivor, means the others can hug the gen. If the killer breaks the chase, the previously chased survivor will go back to the gen.
- PoP: killer wastes more time going to a gen, then what the perk achieves in regression. 20 Seconds, when a single survivor works on it. 11 Seconds when 2 work on it. Also, having to hook someone in order to activate it. A killer who is able to use it often, wouldn´t need it anyway. Because he already is keeping those survivors busy. A killer who isn´t able to get many hooks, will see no benefit from it. When it actually should be a help.
- Overcharge: only good on the doctor.
- Lullaby: requirements to high
- Corrupt: just displaces which gens get done first + its more probably that survivors cleanse totems.
I´m not happy with the devs decisions and judging by the amount of threads where people complain about long survivor queues, i´m probably not the only one.
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If camping and tunneling are legit strategies, DS is also a legit strategy. The difference being that a Survivor has to actually be good at mindgaming and loops to get away...the Killer just has to proxy camp the slug for a minute or better yet, find someone else to chase.
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I actually get stunned more these days I think. Thanks to the long duration on any possible unhooked survivors, you can end up getting DSed by a health survivor who is working on a gen.Before it was only guaranteed on one survivor and you knew who that was, the Obsession. It was a still a frustrating perk after the first nerf, but it was at least manegable and you could actually play around it. Now with the new DS, Unbreakable and SWF, there is no realy counter play with a combination of two perks.
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Your saying a survivor has to be good to get unhooked and then make a easy skill check? So much skill.
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Lmao the killer community didn't say that, and if they did, they ain't a killer main.
Undying wasn't busted either, the perk made survivor's more totem focused which is survivor's OPTIONAL objective. But let's nerf Undying so that survivor's can continue to complain about NOED, even though the counter is to do bones or continue you on with objectives
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@Vetrathene No, how often does the DS user go down within 30 seconds of hitting it? Other than EGC instances, fairly often in my experience. I personally don't use DS unless there's a 'Stun Killer' rift challenge. But as I mentioned, if a Killer can proxy camp and tunnel (So MuCh SkILl), a Survivor deserves the ability to shank em and get another chance for escape. Is it highly abusable with SWF? Absolutely, but what can't be?
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Most "nerf ds" are from campers and tunnelers.
Nerf ds! Can't tunnel properly!!
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Clearly you haven't been paying attention.
People want Ds to be nerfed because they get hit by it when they don't tunnel.
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I just see the same idea's over and over on how to nerf it and most of them are not really good.
the only two good idea's i have seen is disabling DS if you work on a gen and after the gens are powered the perk's timer is reduced to 30 seconds. I actually think both of them could be implemented and that would solve all the actually problems with the perk.
Most idea's talk about reducing the timer which isn't a good idea since that minute is what discourages tunneling, if it's shorter people will just tunnel then wait slightly after downing them to hook them. you can do that now too but it takes too long. making the perk's timer decrease at whatever speed is also not that good because the chase mechanic can be worked around and if the timer decreases when you work on things like gens it doesn't do enough since they can still finish that gen and have a good amount of time on the perk left. also the common idea of it disabling after someone else is hooked is way to easy to work around and in many cases won't even prevent tunneling.
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i mean it was for balance but... they pretty much nerfed chase mechanics so hard killers actually stood a slightly better chance.
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If they figure out how to nerf camping and tunneling then I'd be all ears for DS nerfs.
Until then...not listening.
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Yeah, CLEARLY all these threads over the years are made by innocent killers. Okay bud.
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Most of the time that's not the case.
Survivors can sit on a gen in the killers face and force them to eat Ds.
Not to mention the timer lasts so long that by that time the killer has already chased someone else, and now looking for survivors in general not the unhooked survivor.
People think tunneling is toxic, it's not. A killer tunneling is doing their objective fast, just like genrushing, and that isn't toxic. Just like how killers have slowdown perks, survivors should have Ds to help stop tunneling. The issue with Ds though, is that it ######### the killer over regardless if they tunnel or not.
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Nerfed? Three times? When?
It was reworked and then it was buffed three times. Once when they increased the stun time to 5 seconds from 3 seconds, and again when they made Enduring no longer work against it, and then again when Unnerving Presence no longer worked against it.
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How can you even act like the pre-rework version has any place in discussions about current DS. The perk functions completely differently now, and basically ignoring any buffs to the current version of DS while saying the perk has been nerfed because its previous version was nerfed is ridiculous. It was re-worked meaning the previous version is irrelevant.
Also, the change to DS was actually a buff to Aggressive play. You can force the Killer to waste time on you. It has little, to nothing, to do with tunneling.
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This is just another tiny battle during the major global war of the survivor main vs the killer mains. Nobody will agree on anything in this thread, even if we do agree, will the devs do something about it? why even bother anymore? This game is just a lost cause.
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You write like its a 1vs1. Like 1 survivor would have to find an cleanse all totems. Theres 4 survivors. Is it to much to ask everyone to cleanse 1 totem? The last one can be easily found with Detectives. So no, solo is only in a disadvantage if everyone plays like a potatoe and does nothing.
Undying will be long forgotten, when DS is still meta. Mark my words. Undying will be completely obsolete once the patch hits live servers.
I agree on the We´ll make it not being meta, because survivors are not pressured to feel the need to heal (others). Just because they have so many second chance perks and can easily focus on gens. Even while injured.
PoP is trash. If a killer gets minutes out of it, then he wouldn´t have needed it anyway. Because the killer is already dominating.
Ruin can and will be ignored. Just like healing, survivors won´t bother searching for it and simply power through.
Curruption is actually bad for Trapper and Hag. A steamer tested it, how many traps he could set up with and without and surprisingly, with it, he set up less traps, because he ran earlier into survivors.
Oppression and Surge are trash. No good killer uses them.
Oh i forgot about Thana. Since it´s effect is so neglectable, it wouldn´t matter even as Legion. Especially since it´s nerf.
Queue times have increased significantly for survivors and i doubt it will get any better with the upcoming patch.
A killer who tries to get a 12 hook by ignoring previously hooked survivors will lose the match and gets maybe 1 kill.
At least on red ranks. Not that it matters anymore, since they remove ranks.
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They also nerfed Bloodlust during that period. So... on that point it´s more like a draw.
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Sorry but you must be living under a rock because a large portion of the killer community agreed that it was busted on these forums, and popular Dead By Daylight killer streamers such as Otz and OhTofu. You know, those people play a big role when it comes to DBD especially Otz and Tofu because everyone likes to defend killer and claim survivors are op yet they still point out stupid perks or ideas that the devs come out with so...
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Yeah, except that there are some clear problems with it.
- Protects people to do things when they aren't be tunneled... Fixing a gen, doing a totem. These shouldn't be doable with immunity. Its exploitable and unimmersive. Kind of like how survivors know that legion's power can't down them on top of the killer getting a cooldown so they mend in the killer's face. Obviously referring to the unimmersive with that bit. While the rest is for exploits.
- It is active too long. Fair enough on it being active if you hook someone during a trade. That is a situation where a hit should happen. Its very easy to say 'hey I'm not tunneling I slugged both then picked up one first!'. There is something very wrong being hit by it when the killer goes across the entire map as say... Legion... Does a short chase, downs the survivor and hooks them. Then goes all the way across the map again... Downs the DS survivor and ends up eating it still. 60s is too much when the survivor was not at risk for the overwhelming majority of that time.
There's many perks that need slight tweaks to make them fair or more powerful. Undying is such a perk. DS is such a perk. That don't mean make them useless. Fix the exploitive bits as much as possible. The whole statement of saying 'the community treats it like anti tunnel but that's not what the perk is supposed to be' is irrelevant. It ignores what clearly a big portion of the community wants, survivor and killers alike. A deterrent to tunneling that doesn't go too far. Not an aggressive perk that tends to get abused.
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Undying + Ruin Counterplay:
1. Stick to gens. If the killer pressures you oh well, hope that your teammates are also doing gens. That's why the Gabe is 1v4 and more 1v1
2. Cleanse totems. I guess this is too much of the right thing to do considering that totems are a OPTIONAL objective and you weren't forced to cleanse every single totem.
DS + UB Counterplay:
Well the killer slugged you to avoid DS, but your countering slugging with UB. Now that you've countered slugging, DS is still active and the killer is coming for you, well let me hop in a locker to nullify the killer's ability to counter DS.
My point is that Undying and Ruin had counterplay and was only broken when Frederick ran slow down add-ons, while DS and UB has no counterplay that doesn't punish killers for playing fair
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Then what is it supposed to be? Because right now its sixty seconds of get away free for doing nothing but playing badly and getting hooked.
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So legitimate (if unfun) playstyles deserve to be countered simply because they are sometimes employed? And that killers should just leave a hook and allow the save?
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You don´t HAVE to coordinate. You take Detectives as solo and cleanse the totems the others ignore. Since you see them all.
Tinkerer is still good on Blight. This won´t change. Combine it with Trail of Torment and Dark Devotion for max confusion.
3 gen with 4 survivors alive WILL lead to them escaping. Even with PoP. Killer can´t dedicate to a chase even a short one, because the second he does try to get that down, the other 3 survivors will be sitting on the same gen. But lets say, the killer insta downs, hooks and goes to that gen the 3 survivors were working on. He still has to hurry, because 3 survivors complete a gen in 30 seconds. So the 25% regression is kinda meh.
Corrupt: you sacrifice endgame traps (which you need) to get some early chases (which you don´t need). Bad trade.
Queue times represent balance very easily. People like to win. So unless a new killer is released or a event requires people to play a certain role, people WILL play the more powerful role. Instant survivor queues? Killer OP. Instant killer queues? Survivor OP.
Of course, there is a additional point of the time of the day. Less people play during office hours. So those queue times vary drastically from prime time queue times. When everyone has time to play.
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I think balancing things like DS falls into the same pit as balance in general. People who have a firm understanding of this game and things that would probably be beneficial to the health of it no longer bother. Why voice your concerns, why apply your logic, why attempt to lay out your reasoning for things when people who are so clueless try to argue against it? The developers themselves not listening to their community is one thing, but when a large collective of incredibly smart, talented and just plain knowledge streamers are constantly explaining what is wrong and suggesting how to fix it, and you also ignore them; why bother? Even THEY have stopped wasting their time because they've accepted that, for years, they've never been heard, either. Who cares about anyone but new players?
That's pretty my reasoning for not wasting my time trying to explain to people in threads like this the problems with DS, because you read the responses and you see people say idiotic things like "It's fine it only punishes you if the killer tunnel" make my IQ drop.
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The only change it should be made is that should activate every time you're picked up right after being freed from the hook, instead of once per match.
It is one of the few perks that actually discourages tunnelers. With the silly disconnect penalty in place, it should actually be made better.
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its really not...
they gave us bloodlust during that, along with window blocking, buffed killer vaulting speed, and fixed a few infinites.
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But survivors don't have to cleanse all totems. Ruin is so weak, you could ignore it and still finish all gens in 4 minutes. Killer can't chase 4 survivors at the same time. 2 or 3 will always have the possibility to hug gens.
Undying is gone. With the update you won't see it anymore. It's not going to be meta. Now it's just Haunted Grounds without the exposed status. Was Haunted Grounds Ruin meta? No? Exactly!
I play solo queue all the time. Starting Saturday evening, the queues went back up with waiting times of 5+ minutes. This won't improve once the patch drops.
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They gave us bloodlust as a bandaid and then nerfed it.
I suspect the bloodlust free weekend experiment didn't go as expected. Or they would have removed it already.
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