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I am tired of hearing “nerf DS”
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it got nerfed and then buffed actually..
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And each time it was stronger than before. With less counters.
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nah. the first iteration had zero counters. the second variation, you could hook 3 survivors without much threat, but the obsession was instant ds. and now everyone is immune from the killer for 60 seconds while free to do gens each time they are hooked.
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No, they nerfed undying because it was too much for solo Q.
How are solo Q players entitled? They have the most miserable experience in this game
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it reaaally isnt, just run small game or better yet, detective hunch, bye bye 2 / 4 perks
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Remember when killers could dribble survivors to the hook?
First they nerfed how often a killer can drop a survivor, then they removed it completely.
Same goes for Enduring. First it could reduce the time of the stun, then they removed it completely.
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while also buffing it from a 3 second stun to a 5 second stun.
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Ah yes, first they increased the time of the stun, then they removed the stun completely.
Funny how the dropping survivors and increased stun time haven´t been reversed since then.
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Its like there is a legitimate, frustrating problem that people want changed and the people who can change it refuse to do anything about it. But don't worry, Undying got nerfed because it "promoted unhealthy play"...
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It got substantially nerfed and then got a nice but less substantial buff in a Z patch right after the initial nerf.
2.6.0 was nerf #3 that tied DS to the 60-second timer and that reduced stun duration from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.
2.6.3, which I am considering part of this third nerf because it was just a quick tweak after the fact, made the stun duration 5 sections instead of 3.
So, basically, nerf #3 in my mind was the switch to a 60-second timer in exchange for a 1 second increase to stun duration. That is a massive nerf compared to the 1.4.0 version, regardless of whether you want to call 2.6.3 its own separate buff.
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DS is fine as a true anti-tunnel perk, but the current version isn't that. The current version is just too strong in competent players hands. They can sit on gens, and rescue people from the hook with little punishment. Especially if they run it with UB.
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You forgot the part where enduring doesn't work against it any more.
And there have only really been 3 changes.
- everyone could use ds when picked up or save it for later
- The obsession can use DS when picked up but the other 3 survivors needed to wiggle to 35%
- DS activates after being hooked with a 60s timer. Stun time increased to 5 seconds. Enduring nerfed to not work on non pallet stuns.
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I don't see how you came to that conclusion.
The original version of DS had no wiggle bar requirement, no obsession requirement, and a five-second stun.
Nerf #1 was reducing the stun to four seconds.
Nerf #2 was adding the obsession mechanic, which gives the killer info about when DS might be in play, and which game with a wiggle percentage requirement for non-obsessions. This added an obvious counter for non-obsessions; just beeline for the nearest hook. In matches without an obsession, too, the killer knows that DS isn't in play and doesn't need to respect it.
Nerf #3 was the 60-second timer in exchange for pushing the stun back to five seconds. It is still abusable imo, but it can largely be avoided by not tunneling. Slugging is also a good counter, even if they have UB, due to the 60-second timer.
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The original and nerf #1 iterations of DS were only counterable by 1) juggling the survivor if you downed them very near to the hook and 2) by spinning in circles to try to make them miss the skill check (although this didn't work much against decent players). In practice 1) was basically the only option, and survivors could easily avoid it by just keeping an eye on hook placement when they were in trouble. Nerf #2 added counters based around the obsession mechanic as well. Nerf #3 added slugging as a counter, and made it also largely avoidable by just not repeatedly chasing the same survivor.
It is easier to deal with now than it ever has been. Does it need a nerf? Yes imo, but let's keep things in context.
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I'm not forgetting it; I'm just responding to your comment. Even if you bundle the Enduring change as a part of change #3, DS is still substantially weaker now than it was while change #2 was live. Before change #3, if all four survivors had DS, you could expect to eat DS 3 or 4 times during the match. The odds are good that you would down the non-obsessions far from a hook at least once during the match. Now, even if all survivors have DS and even if you're straight up not paying attention to timers and who you've been chasing, you would likely still trigger it way less than before. If you're actively paying attention and playing around it, you can usually limit that number to 0 or 1.
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I came to the conclusion, because killers used to be able to dribble survivors to the hook.
Killers could drop the survivor up to 5 times before he broke free. Survivors complained, and it was reduced to 3 times.
Killers could use Enduring to reduce the stun duration. Survivors complained, and they increased the stun duration. But since that wasn´t enough, shortly later, they removed the reduced stun of Enduring for DS hits.
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You could not make a lot of distance while dribbling, though, so the survivor needed to be really close to the hook anyway to do that. It also wasted a massive amount of time for the killer over the match if they wanted to commit to it.
Before, running Enduring to counter DS stuns might have been smart because you basically were going to eat them regardless. Now, you don't need Enduring and you still eat fewer DS stuns.
Not every balance change is made because "survivors complained", and phrasing it that way just minimizes player feedback by portraying it as something unreasonable. Are we also phrasing DS's nerfs as "the devs nerfed DS because killers complained, then killers complained again and so they nerfed DS again, and then killers complained a third time so they nerfed DS a third time"? Of course not, and we also shouldn't.
Having to dribble a survivor to the hook was no fun for either side and was a hilariously dumb thing to have to do just to avoid a perk that you didn't even know for sure was in play. Of course they were going to discourage dribbling and also nerf the perk.
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Dribbling was not a consistent counter. One body block, or poor hook placement (and hook placement was much less consistent back then) and you got DSed anyway.
At least you can actually play around DS most of the time now and you don’t just straight up lose your first hook. I think you’re either new or forgetting how horribly unfair and busted old DS was if you think it’s worse now. It was absolutely worse before.
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How do you play around it? Unbreakable and WGLF exist.
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You're not supposed to play around it. You are supposed to just accept that DS and UB is a thing and keep on being a play thing for competent survivors.
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Good point. Yeah the player feedback clearly mattered, when it was regarding Undying Ruin. Which was swiftly adressed. Unlike Unbreakable DS.
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Undying needed to be changed and the devs are rightly getting right on that. And, as we've been through already, DS has already been nerfed three times. The devs said on a recent dev stream as well that they continue to hear the feedback about DS and are discussing ways to improve it. It has not been ignored. Plus, they have a history of slow changes to plenty of strong perks from both sides. Old Ruin was live for more than two years, for example, and they even buffed the Tier 1 and Tier 2 versions in the middle before they finally nerfed it.
Undying should still be meta on some killers even after the change. Killers have actually had several meta perks (BBQ, Pop, etc.) added to the game since the last survivor meta perk was added (Dead Hard, July 2017). Mettle of Man was poised to be a new survivor meta perk at one point, but it got nerfed into meme-tier oblivion before it was even released. That's worth remembering if you feel they're just ignoring balance changes on the survivor side. Undying not only had a few months in the sun, but it's still going to be strong even after the nerf.
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Again, I do think DS needs a nerf. I just think it's important to realize that the devs don't ignore killer feedback either.
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And why exactly did Undying require a nerf? It didn´t see more action than DS.
Yeah, the survivor meta hasn´t changed in 3 years. Not by a single perk. The 5 most used perks of 2017 are still the 5 most used perks in 2021.
The ONLY time a good survivor perk was really nerfed, was Mettle of Man. Other than that, survivor perks always got a nerfbuff. Nerfing some parts and greatly buffing other parts.
This is a previledge, only survivor perks have.
Whenever there was a great killer perk(combo) it was swiftly removed. Devs even said on a stream, that they don´t want gen slowdown perks to synergize.
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Nerf DS
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I obviously don't have stats on this, but I think it needed a nerf because Undying/Ruin/Tinkerer was not only very strong, but it was disproportionally strong against solo queue players. Undying doesn't apply the Cursed status effect, so solo survivors in particular have very little information to go off. I think this is a bad thing, especially for perk as commonly used as Undying; the devs should always be trying to close the gap between solo and SWF, not drive another wedge between them.
Let's imagine a teammate gets chased off a dull totem right at the start of the match, for example, and knows Undying is in play. With SWF, they announce this to their teammates and they can then all keep an eye out for hexes. Once they find two, they can cleanse both and guarantee that Undying gets removed. 50% of the time they have one more hex to cleanse to get rid of Ruin, and 50% of the time they're done already. In the meantime, they can also rotate to finish up gens that were regressing from Ruin to limit its the effectiveness. They can even coordinate if they want to all rush gens or if they want to go totem hunting, which is important, since neither approach is really as effective if you just have some survivors doing it, assuming no Detective's + Map and such. This is still a good effect for the killer, because at the very least it wastes a lot of survivor time, but it's certainly also counterable.
if we consider the same example with solo queue, though, that one person who got chased off the totem knows about Undying but can't tell anyone. If they want to try to cleanse all of the totems themselves, it wastes a massive amount of time they could have been spending on gens and it's very risky for them due to the aura reading. Especially on maps with good totem spawns, they could easily spend a few minutes running around the map searching. Cleansing hexes as you find them also tends to push the Ruin to better-hidden totems, and is therefore a much worse approach than finding two hexes before cleansing one, as SWF can more easily do.
The new Undying solves this problem because you don't need as much teamwork to counter Undying. Now there's no downside to cleansing them one at a time because you always only need the two cleanses and cleansing one hex at a time no longer tends to move Ruin to the best hidden totems on the map. "If it glows it goes" is once again viable in solo queue. The fact that it didn't keep tokens before also made it pretty weak with Token-based hex perks, so it pretty much only got use with Ruin. That's not great for gameplay variety, so I think the buff to have token-based hexes keep their tokens was a really good change.
The only thing I would have done differently is keeping the original aura reading in exchange for giving survivors the cursed status effect when they first touch a totem.
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DS got nerfed three times, as we've established, and Sprint Burst and Dead Hard were both heavily nerfed when Exhaustion stopped recovering while sprinting and stopped recovering faster while crouching. Before you could just throw on Vigil and get multiple exhaustion perk procs in the same chase.
In the early days of the game there was also a Self Care / We'll Make It meta because those perks used to stack. These perks no longer stack and healing in general was slowed, so that combo is now dead.
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"Whenever there was a great killer perk combo it was swifty removed" - this just straight up isn't true. Not wanting gen slowdown perks to stack is also entirely fair because it makes for terrible matches and the perks are harder to balance; If you could pop regressing gens, for example, you can bet that Ruin or Pop would have to be weaker to maintain balance.
You can complain until you're blue in the face about "they nerfed Enduring so now Enduring/Spirit Fury is a little bit worse" or "they reduced Pop's timer so now Pop/BBQ is a bit worse", but the fact remains that those combos are still extremely strong and these metas were initially introduced well after the last survivor meta perk was added. Many of these perks were never nerfed either and were even buffed. Survivors don't have a single new-Tinkerer-esque buff to point to since Dead Hard came out.
I don't know how people look at that and say "devs don't listen to killers" or "devs just keep nerfing killer". I have been generally very happy with the devs balance decisions to both sides and I feel the game is more balanced now than it ever has been.
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Undying Ruin was only strong against lazy survivors that wouldn´t cleanse a totem, even if their life depended on it.
As you mentioned, there are plenty of counters like Maps or Detectives. For example, i changed 1 perk of my loadout and usually end up cleansing 4 or 5 totems per match while playing solo. Not much coordination needed, since totem spawns are painfully obvious. Like out in the middle of nowhere. Or next to a gen.
The new Undying is basically a Haunted Grounds without the exposed status. Which is... really kinda meh.
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DS got "nerfed" 3 times. Correct, but it is as strong as it always was. It is still meta (like SB and DH) and there is no way around it.
We´ll make it is still the most powerful healing perk and the only reason it´s not meta is, because people don´t like to sacrifice one of the other perk slots to heal others faster. When healing yourself is so much more efficient. 2 survivors healing each other take the same amount of time as 2 survivors healing themselves with SC. So instead of wasting time by finding the others, survivors just use SC.
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Each and every single gen slowdown perk is weak af. None of them would make a difference when playing against skilled survivors.
- Ruin: can be ignored. No effect while repairing a gen. Killer can only chase 1 survivor, means the others can hug the gen. If the killer breaks the chase, the previously chased survivor will go back to the gen.
- PoP: killer wastes more time going to a gen, then what the perk achieves in regression. 20 Seconds, when a single survivor works on it. 11 Seconds when 2 work on it. Also, having to hook someone in order to activate it. A killer who is able to use it often, wouldn´t need it anyway. Because he already is keeping those survivors busy. A killer who isn´t able to get many hooks, will see no benefit from it. When it actually should be a help.
- Overcharge: only good on the doctor.
- Lullaby: requirements to high
- Corrupt: just displaces which gens get done first + its more probably that survivors cleanse totems.
I´m not happy with the devs decisions and judging by the amount of threads where people complain about long survivor queues, i´m probably not the only one.
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Undying/Ruin's issue was its strength in addition to the massive time savings you get by coordinating to remove it. This just hurts solo queue. if you have a map and Detective's and want to do it yourself, that's like 70 seconds of cleansing + a minute or two of running around the map + a perk slot + an item + aura reading whenever you go near a totem that can draw the killer and gift them pressure + all of the regression you get from Ruin while it's still up. That's a massive benefit from two perk slots, and would be much smaller against SWF.
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DS is absolutely not as strong as it was. Still being meta =/= being just as strong. If you disagree, why are you torn up about Undying? It's still going to be meta on many killers.
We'll Make It + Self Care was [disgusting]. Please watch that and tell me if you still think they received a large and appropriate nerf.
We'll Make It is not meta because healing is not meta. You're usually better off not taking the time and just rushing gens instead with exhaustion perks and second chance perks.
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Absolutely not. Pop is one of the strongest perks in the game and can easily waste a couple minutes of time over the course of the match from a single perk slot.
Ruin can be ignored, but not without substantial regression unless the killer is not pressuring gens. When you ignore Ruin you're just betting that that regression will be less than the time it takes to cleanse the Ruin.
CI is extremely strong and meta on Trapper and Hag. Survivors can either push and waste time trying to find gens, decrease efficiency and increase the risk of multiple survivors getting pressured by stacking on gens, etc. or they can hide and not get any gens done while Trapper and Hag set up the map with traps.
Lullaby and Overcharge are niche and weak, agreed.
Oppression and Surge are both very good.
Thanatophobia is okay. It's pretty much only worth considering on Legion or Plague.
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I don't think the queue times are related to balance. The game is more balanced now than it has ever been imo. There are plenty of killers and survivors that are more inclined to blame the devs for losses instead of themselves - I see hordes of them on the forum - but they will continue do this regardless of game balance, so I see no reason for a mass exodus. I play on PC and had decent queue times as survivor, even in the evenings, until crossplay hit. That says to me that console is likely the bigger factor. Either it's just a more social platform, meaning more SWF, or the terrible performance while playing killer makes it a really bad experience. I expect it's a combination of the two. Poor balance would be expected to hurt queue times, but there's no good evidence that balance is especially poor at the moment. On the contrary.
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You should generally preferentially target survivors you haven't hooked yet. If you must target a survivor that was recently unhooked, you slug. Even if you slug them right after the unhook and they have UB, meaning they can use either DS or UB until they're recovered, you're still keeping that survivor out of the game for what, ~20 seconds, while you can apply pressure elsewhere? Similar story for WGLF. They can get healed quickly, but they still have two survivors occupied during the heal, plus running time to/from gens. Meanwhile, if you eat the DS that's 8 seconds wasted from the pickup animation and the stun, a free instant health state for the survivor, and you have one fewer survivor incapacitated. That's worse across the board than just slugging them.
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If camping and tunneling are legit strategies, DS is also a legit strategy. The difference being that a Survivor has to actually be good at mindgaming and loops to get away...the Killer just has to proxy camp the slug for a minute or better yet, find someone else to chase.
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I actually get stunned more these days I think. Thanks to the long duration on any possible unhooked survivors, you can end up getting DSed by a health survivor who is working on a gen.Before it was only guaranteed on one survivor and you knew who that was, the Obsession. It was a still a frustrating perk after the first nerf, but it was at least manegable and you could actually play around it. Now with the new DS, Unbreakable and SWF, there is no realy counter play with a combination of two perks.
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Your saying a survivor has to be good to get unhooked and then make a easy skill check? So much skill.
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Lmao the killer community didn't say that, and if they did, they ain't a killer main.
Undying wasn't busted either, the perk made survivor's more totem focused which is survivor's OPTIONAL objective. But let's nerf Undying so that survivor's can continue to complain about NOED, even though the counter is to do bones or continue you on with objectives
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@Vetrathene No, how often does the DS user go down within 30 seconds of hitting it? Other than EGC instances, fairly often in my experience. I personally don't use DS unless there's a 'Stun Killer' rift challenge. But as I mentioned, if a Killer can proxy camp and tunnel (So MuCh SkILl), a Survivor deserves the ability to shank em and get another chance for escape. Is it highly abusable with SWF? Absolutely, but what can't be?
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Most "nerf ds" are from campers and tunnelers.
Nerf ds! Can't tunnel properly!!
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That should only happen very rarely. For someone to get healed to full while you're chasing someone else, and then for you to find them on a gen, chase them for two hits, and then pick them up within 60 seconds, that means that that team is chasing very poorly. You also would be very likely at the way end of the 60s timer at that point for all of that to happen and for you not to be thinking about the DS still, meaning it's 100% counterable. Just slug them, break a gen and a nearby pallet or give a survivor in position for a save a smack, and then go back to pick them up before they're even able to res themselves with UB. That wasn't possible with old DS. If you were near to a hook you could dribble, and if not, you were eating a DS. Slugging wasn't a great option either because what, are you going to slug someone every time they don't go down under a hook just because DS might be in play? It just wasn't really an option before.
Before, you only needed to wiggle to 35% for non-obsessions. That is almost certainly going to happen every match, meaning if they get downed far from a hook (or that hook gets sabo'd, since old sabo took out hooks for like 3 minutes), you're pretty much eating a DS regardless.
Even in a hypothetical situation where you are tunneling someone with DS/UB, possibly because they were emboldened by DS and decided to do a dangerous gen, just slug them. If you can stay in the area, you can re-down them, or if you downed them at more than ~40s on the DS timer, you can just pick them up at the end of the timer. If you can't stay in the area, you're still incapacitating a survivor while you go pressure someone else.
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There are certainly situations where you'll eat a DS when you had no clue it was even in play and/or couldn't easily avoid it (e.g. survivor jumps into a locker well before the 60s is up, all survivors use the same skin so it's really hard to track who you just hooked). Still, that's a small minority of the time. You can usually avoid DS altogether by just not tunneling and slugging if you ever down someone who was recently unhooked when there's an obsession in the match.
I think it's annoying that killers have to play around a perk like that and wish it were firmly an anti-tunneling measure, but it's much easier to avoid now.
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Clearly you haven't been paying attention.
People want Ds to be nerfed because they get hit by it when they don't tunnel.
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I just see the same idea's over and over on how to nerf it and most of them are not really good.
the only two good idea's i have seen is disabling DS if you work on a gen and after the gens are powered the perk's timer is reduced to 30 seconds. I actually think both of them could be implemented and that would solve all the actually problems with the perk.
Most idea's talk about reducing the timer which isn't a good idea since that minute is what discourages tunneling, if it's shorter people will just tunnel then wait slightly after downing them to hook them. you can do that now too but it takes too long. making the perk's timer decrease at whatever speed is also not that good because the chase mechanic can be worked around and if the timer decreases when you work on things like gens it doesn't do enough since they can still finish that gen and have a good amount of time on the perk left. also the common idea of it disabling after someone else is hooked is way to easy to work around and in many cases won't even prevent tunneling.
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i mean it was for balance but... they pretty much nerfed chase mechanics so hard killers actually stood a slightly better chance.
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If they figure out how to nerf camping and tunneling then I'd be all ears for DS nerfs.
Until then...not listening.
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Yeah, CLEARLY all these threads over the years are made by innocent killers. Okay bud.
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Most of the time that's not the case.
Survivors can sit on a gen in the killers face and force them to eat Ds.
Not to mention the timer lasts so long that by that time the killer has already chased someone else, and now looking for survivors in general not the unhooked survivor.
People think tunneling is toxic, it's not. A killer tunneling is doing their objective fast, just like genrushing, and that isn't toxic. Just like how killers have slowdown perks, survivors should have Ds to help stop tunneling. The issue with Ds though, is that it ######### the killer over regardless if they tunnel or not.
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Nerfed? Three times? When?
It was reworked and then it was buffed three times. Once when they increased the stun time to 5 seconds from 3 seconds, and again when they made Enduring no longer work against it, and then again when Unnerving Presence no longer worked against it.
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The original version of DS had no wiggle bar requirement, no obsession requirement, and a five-second stun.
Nerf #1 was reducing the stun to four seconds.
Nerf #2 was adding the obsession mechanic, which gives the killer info about when DS might be in play, and which came with a wiggle percentage requirement for non-obsessions. This added an obvious counter for non-obsessions; just beeline for the nearest hook. In matches without an obsession, too, the killer knows that DS isn't in play and doesn't need to respect it.
Nerf #3 was the switch to the 60-second timer in exchange for pushing the stun back to five seconds. It is still abusable imo, but it can largely be avoided by not tunneling. Slugging is also a good counter, even if they have UB, due to the 60-second timer.
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Enduring and Unnerving Presence were only soft counters and pale in comparison to the nerfs to the base perk.
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How can you even act like the pre-rework version has any place in discussions about current DS. The perk functions completely differently now, and basically ignoring any buffs to the current version of DS while saying the perk has been nerfed because its previous version was nerfed is ridiculous. It was re-worked meaning the previous version is irrelevant.
Also, the change to DS was actually a buff to Aggressive play. You can force the Killer to waste time on you. It has little, to nothing, to do with tunneling.
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You asked me when it was nerfed - I just answered. Still, I think it is relevant to consider DS's history so it's clear that the devs have not ignored its balance, as many are alleging.
The current version of DS was only buffed if you consider the Z-patch after the switch to the 60-second timer that bumped the stun back to 5 seconds a separate buff. Other than that it has been the same for just about two years.
You could play just as aggressively with the old DS, and you could do it right from the first chase instead of needing to be downed shortly after an unhook. You just had to avoid going down right under a hook and you were pretty much safe. It'd a tough argument to say that the current version of DS is buffed over the 1.4.0 version, but I'm all ears if you have a good reason to think that.
The current version of the perk certainly has a lot to do with tunneling, but I agree it can be (and often is) used aggressively. I would like to see a nerf that pushes it more firmly into the anti-tunneling niche.
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This is just another tiny battle during the major global war of the survivor main vs the killer mains. Nobody will agree on anything in this thread, even if we do agree, will the devs do something about it? why even bother anymore? This game is just a lost cause.
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You write like its a 1vs1. Like 1 survivor would have to find an cleanse all totems. Theres 4 survivors. Is it to much to ask everyone to cleanse 1 totem? The last one can be easily found with Detectives. So no, solo is only in a disadvantage if everyone plays like a potatoe and does nothing.
Undying will be long forgotten, when DS is still meta. Mark my words. Undying will be completely obsolete once the patch hits live servers.
I agree on the We´ll make it not being meta, because survivors are not pressured to feel the need to heal (others). Just because they have so many second chance perks and can easily focus on gens. Even while injured.
PoP is trash. If a killer gets minutes out of it, then he wouldn´t have needed it anyway. Because the killer is already dominating.
Ruin can and will be ignored. Just like healing, survivors won´t bother searching for it and simply power through.
Curruption is actually bad for Trapper and Hag. A steamer tested it, how many traps he could set up with and without and surprisingly, with it, he set up less traps, because he ran earlier into survivors.
Oppression and Surge are trash. No good killer uses them.
Oh i forgot about Thana. Since it´s effect is so neglectable, it wouldn´t matter even as Legion. Especially since it´s nerf.
Queue times have increased significantly for survivors and i doubt it will get any better with the upcoming patch.
A killer who tries to get a 12 hook by ignoring previously hooked survivors will lose the match and gets maybe 1 kill.
At least on red ranks. Not that it matters anymore, since they remove ranks.
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They also nerfed Bloodlust during that period. So... on that point it´s more like a draw.
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Sorry but you must be living under a rock because a large portion of the killer community agreed that it was busted on these forums, and popular Dead By Daylight killer streamers such as Otz and OhTofu. You know, those people play a big role when it comes to DBD especially Otz and Tofu because everyone likes to defend killer and claim survivors are op yet they still point out stupid perks or ideas that the devs come out with so...
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Yeah, except that there are some clear problems with it.
- Protects people to do things when they aren't be tunneled... Fixing a gen, doing a totem. These shouldn't be doable with immunity. Its exploitable and unimmersive. Kind of like how survivors know that legion's power can't down them on top of the killer getting a cooldown so they mend in the killer's face. Obviously referring to the unimmersive with that bit. While the rest is for exploits.
- It is active too long. Fair enough on it being active if you hook someone during a trade. That is a situation where a hit should happen. Its very easy to say 'hey I'm not tunneling I slugged both then picked up one first!'. There is something very wrong being hit by it when the killer goes across the entire map as say... Legion... Does a short chase, downs the survivor and hooks them. Then goes all the way across the map again... Downs the DS survivor and ends up eating it still. 60s is too much when the survivor was not at risk for the overwhelming majority of that time.
There's many perks that need slight tweaks to make them fair or more powerful. Undying is such a perk. DS is such a perk. That don't mean make them useless. Fix the exploitive bits as much as possible. The whole statement of saying 'the community treats it like anti tunnel but that's not what the perk is supposed to be' is irrelevant. It ignores what clearly a big portion of the community wants, survivor and killers alike. A deterrent to tunneling that doesn't go too far. Not an aggressive perk that tends to get abused.
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