Why I think NOED should be changed
In my opinion, NOED should be changed instead of nerfed.
Right now, the perk is being mostly used as a crutch for new players. I know this for a fact because I did the same when I first started playing killer. Why would I not have run it? It gave me a chance to get some kills at the end game and as a new player, this is an absolute win for me. I eventually stopped using it and moved on to BBQ and chili a long time ago.
Almo himself said something along the lines of it being balanced as a high-risk high reward perk. He also said that it is the survivor's fault for not cleansing the dull totems the whole match.
I disagree with this statement. I do not think that a survivor team should be punished for not cleansing totems that they probably couldn't spend time finding, especially because of solo queue. Most people are solo queueing when it comes to playing survivor, how are they supposed to coordinate that? If you have one person in solo queue look for totems all game, that is one useless survivor (pretty much) and they might not even know if anyone has cleansed totems yet so they have to assume that and probably waste a lot of time. In solo queue, your best time spent is time spent on generators and healing less than experienced survivors so that everyone including yourself has a better chance of escaping.
Also, why should survivors cleanse totems for the small chance of a killer having the perk? It has been months since I have had to deal with NOED at rank 1. So should I be punished for being a good survivor all game only to get instantly downed because I didn't cleanse the totems that most likely did not matter to cleanse in the first place?
Conclusion: NOED should be changed, to what? I don't know, you guys think of something.
I think that NOED should have a different end game effect on survivors that encourages them to leave for as long as the hex is active. Just something about it needs to be changed.
Comments
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Perks are not crutches.
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Yeah, at this point, with how decent totem spawns seem to be, it probably should be reworked to not be a hex; a lot of people have suggested that it should be token based.
Or maybe Survivors should know that the killer has NOED. Like, it has an effect during the game, like making survivors very slightly slower.
Noed has been a ######### to go against for me. I just started playing survivor, and climbing ranks is rough. The killers usually end up being really low rank, and just get bodied by survivors. This means, it's pretty hard to get chase and alturism. And just to add salt to the wound, NOED. So I'm either the one that gets hit with it and dies for a black pip, or someone else gets hit but there is nothing I can do about it, so I escape and black pip
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I'd love to see a NOED change paired with other changes that adress second chance perks on both sides making them all more costly to use, not just pure benefits with extremely strong effects with no real effort to activate.
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My idea for NoED:
-No more Exposed Status
-Killer keeps the speed bonus
-Killer now sees the aura of all survivors as long as the totem stands.
This makes it threatening, without it being an easy-win.
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Explain please.
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I disagree. NOED is fine as is.
Survivors don't have to cleanse dull totems. They can wait for the last gen to pop and look for the lit totem.
Totems are a secondary objective. They are not mandatory, but you do risk danger by not looking for them and cleansing them.
Survivors are not entitled to an easy escape just because they could hold M1 long enough to power a gen. Endgame is a large part of a killers game and many can snowball and get 3-4k if played right.
If the killer was so good that they were able to pressure you enough to where you couldn't take some time to cleanse totems, then that isn't the fault of NOED, that is in the fault of the players not being good enough to be able to work on more than one objective during a match.
You are not being punished for being a good survivor if you get hit by NOED, you are being punished for making a bad choice and taking a big risk in not cleansing totems. You are being punished for not considering the killer might have NOED and not paying attention to your surroundings when the last gen pops.
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Noed doesn't even activate against good survivors, I'd actually say it needs to have the hex factor removed and be on a 120 second timer just like Hope , so yea I'm saying it even though I never use it buff Noed lol as ridiculous as that sounds the reason you don't see it at high ranks is because nobody wants a perk slot to potentially go to waste and most of the good killers don't use it anyway because they can end the game faster and again waste a perk slot , so if you kill them too fast it's a wasted slot and if theyre good survivors they do the totems and it's a wasted slot.
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More like OoO for killers. With a way to disable it.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
But you can't always take the time to do totems. If you are up against a good killer and the player is skilled, you don't have time to waste. If you manage to do all gens with one person killed off, NOED will almost guarantee another free kill. As I said before, a solo queue team can't really risk cleansing totems and the chance of the killer having NOED at different rank varies. In solo queue, if you aren't doing a generator, you better hope your teammates are. In fact, solo queue is the main problem.
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I don't really care if Noed gets nerfed, but I want Ds changed before it.
Back on topic, I like that one guys idea to make it so you see peoples auras.
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A DS nerf would be a nice one.
Yeah, I think the aura reading should be limited. Maybe if survivors group up they can be revealed or if they are injured.
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Maybe, the aura reading should be tweaked though.
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Maybe if the survivors are standing within X meters from each other, or an exit gate?
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Possibly, I am not really sure. Maybe if they are within 16-24m from each other you can see them.
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NOED is fine. Killers are constantly complaining that totems are out in the open and next to gens making them too easy for survivors to cleanse. Totems don't take long to cleanse, the only reason they become an issue in solo lobbies is because of the mentality of thinking they are a waste of time. Survivors would rather risk NOED and leave behind teammate at end than prevent it and have all escape. I see plenty of killers in red ranks use NOED if they aren't running Ruin/Undying because when you get up to red/purple ranks most survivors ignore the totems. NOED shouldn't be changed just because survivors don't feel like doing totems.
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Ok let me throw this out there if you are wanting to change NOED.
Lets say your a nice killer your spreading damage and hooks, 1 gen left and everyone injured, last gen pops and suddenly everyone is full health because they have adrenaline. How do you counter that setup if you take away the exposed factor from NOED.
Yes I'm listing a pretty niche situation but one that a swf group could have in their pocket or even a partial swf and a couple of randos with the newly full health guys running the body block.
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It's not a free kill if the killer pressured you enough to prevent you from doing totems, especially since they've been handicapped to three perks for most of the match. It just means your team was worse than the killer.
Solo isn't an excuse to gut yet another killer perk.
I only play solo and I'm bad at the game, yet I don't have a problem finding totems or cleansing NOED. The main problem with Solo is always being paired up with bad players who don't know how to properly loop for more than 5 seconds or know how to play stealthily.
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It should go back to being unlimited without a totem attached.
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Same for ds
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By the end of the game survivors must have spotted every dull totem and go check them if they suspect that there's NOED. If you don't have the chance to do this just take the L and leave the downed survivor die before more casualties. You have to remember that the killer used one perk that is only at use at the end game that could have been countered and maybe if he used another perk he could've killed someone else or extended the game. People like to overestimate the effect of NOED because it is very immediate and feels unfair, but it is not op by any means.
I have a bad feeling that if people still complain about NOED they will ######### cry with the new change to undying making Devour a meta perk.
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And the thing is they shouldn't do totems, it's a waste of time most of the time. They just have to spot them and go back late game when they suspect NOED is coming and could have an effect. At least this is what i do, i never do totems unless there's undying.
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Why?
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Yeah, that is the thing, I don't really know how to change it. I just know that it should be, I was only spitballing an idea.
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How does that work with adrenaline? You would also have to have more than one survivor injured which can be difficult at times especially with medkits.
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You want it change. Clearly past changes weren't in the right direction so lets go back to square one.
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How does reverting it back into a normal perk solve the problem? I said that it was already difficult enough to get rid of and your suggestion is to make it a non-hex perk?
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If its difficult to get rid of, then there's no difference if it cannot be.
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Well, that is just straight-up wrong, difficult does not mean near impossible.
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Alot of good players often dont bother healing especially if you run sloppy butcher, and they know when the last gen pops they get a free instaheal plus sprintburst or if they run hope and get the haste that makes them almost as fast as the killer not running noed (Not sure on the actual number for hope).
Either way you look at it forcing the heal slows down the game giving the killer time or forcing people to find and cleanse totems slows down the game and gives the killer time.
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Ya'basic. :) You are also wrong. Totems are also objectives. Ignore them at your risk. If you get killed by NOED you are to blame.
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People are making it out to be impossible.
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I've always been a fan of Otz's suggestions to OoO and Noed.
I think both of these perks should be changed some honestly.
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I don't think you read the post.
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"People" does not mean everyone.
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Is everyone the standard? I thought it was whoever was the loudest.
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I feel like his OoO change is still kind of meh. It does solve the problem for hag and trapper, but survivors will still know where you are as the killer because they know for a fact that the killer is near you.
His NOED change, I am not sure.
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In my opinion, if they were to change NOED, they should make it so there are less hex totems that spawn in total. There should probably be 3 that spawn. This would be so the survivors could more easily get rid of it before the exit gates are available. Maybe it could also give the killer a loud noise notification when a survivor cleanses a dull totem.
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Noed is fine for new killers that are just learning the game. As they get better they see they'll rely less on noed. Just to let you know though you're basically running 3 perks until the last generator is done. Should survivors be punished for not doing totems? Yes they should. If they see a totem and don't bother cleansing it then don't be surprised if the killer has noed. You could at least remember the spot of the totem just in case.
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This does sound like an interesting concept, however, I think there should be some restrictions to this, for example it shouldn't provide auras of the survivors in chase with the killer because it makes mind games mean absolutely nothing. Either make the survivors lose that in chase, or make it so that it works from a certain distance away from the killer.
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Hrm. I'll go back and read it again and see if I missed that you were being sarcastic or something.
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Ok; I read your post AGAIN to see if I missed something. I didn't. I disagree with you. Your complaint about NOED is the same song and dance I've read many times before. Hence, why I made the joke about being basic. Nobody forces you to do Totems. Don't do them. I play Solo Que myself. I do Totems. Do you want to know how often NOED has been a problem for me? You probably don't, but I'll tell you; it isn't a problem. Totems are objectives. They have always been objectives. The DEV clearly want people to do them.
You have a choice, and you reap the whirlwind of those choices. If anything I'd make NOED worse to reinforce and make it crystal clear that people should be killing Totems. The funny thing is that prior to Oppression+Pop being the flavor of the day, Undying+Ruin all but killed NOED outside the potato Ranks. It turns out people can, and do, kill Totems fast and efficiently. NOED is just flaring back up in to common use again because some Survivors are CHOOSING not to do Totems again. Go figure.
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Any ideas that keep the perk useful genius rather than throwing an insult like the monkey brained survivor you are that like to just jump through thing you could try being helpful
(just saying)
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If my complaint about NOED is something you have heard many times before then why even bother commenting?
All I am saying is that NOED should be changed. I don't think that survivors should have to cleanse totems for no reason 90% of games only for the small chance of the killer having NOED. It is a bigger problem in solo queue and just because you don't have a problem with it because you cleanse totems doesn't mean everyone else does the same. It also doesn't make sense that totems should be made as a secondary objective made just for NOED either unless of course.
If the devs want people to actually do totems, then they should think of a better way to encourage people to cleanse them other than the killer possibly using NOED or hex perks as an excuse because not everyone uses them all the time.
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I comment because this is a tired issue, and I feel driven to comment on it every time. Totems are objectives. If I had my way NOED would work like this (to truly drive the point home):
- NOED activates exactly as it does now.
- Anyone who has not cleansed at least one Totem is now Exposed.
- The exit gates are blocked to anyone who has not cleansed a Totem.
- Cleansing the now lit NOED Totem will end all effects.
Totems were intended as additional objectives by the DEV so that Gen-Rush wasn't the end all be all. I think they should step UP how many Totems hit end game (and hit hard) just like NOED to drive the point home. Do Bones.
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Agreed.
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There is a reason totems give objective points when you cleanse them, they are an objective and you avoid them at your peril. If you dont want to deal with NOED then cleanse them.
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My idea has always been simple:
Remove the Exposed status effect and replace it with the ability to mori Survivors.
Bam, suddenly nobody is escaping death if they get downed after the last gen is popped. This could even let you bypass late game DSes and in general would give Killers back some of their mori power.
I really want to see moris get baked into perks more now since the mori offerings are weak now.
NOED would still be powerful like this too, my proposed change keeps the speed buff. A killer just has to legitimately down a survivor after NOED activates with this and then they're rewarded with the ability to straight-up kill anyone even if they hadn't been hooked all match.
The value you get from NOED in its current state is downright unfair especially if you run NOED + Haunted Grounds. After a survivor has cleansed one of the HG they probably won't touch totems ever again for the rest of that match- then to be punished by NOED? That's just dirty.
Like I genuinely believe NOED is just dirty. And yes there are dirty Survivor things too that I think need changing but for this, about NOED like idk it's just silly.
Also I wouldn't be opposed to NOED being changed to not be a Hex perk if it lost its Exposed status effect bs and for example had my proposed idea. Maybe give NOED a pre requisite or token system like people are saying. I think there's definitely a way to make NOED more fun for everyone though. In its current state idk how u can use it and feel good about yourself because I sure can't. I'd rather work for my kills or not get them at all when I'm Killer. I don't want a perk that will reward me for losing and get clutch kills in end game.
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The problem rests mainly with solo queue. Survivors can't just do bones while solo queueing because it is hard to keep track of totems and know who has done any. A map would help, but no one really uses them. I like Otzdarva's proposed changes a little better. He mentioned that the killer should have an insta down for each individual survivor hooked or remaining totems left in the trial.
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And this is where we disagree. I play Solo Que 90% of the time. I find that I am able to do Bones and clearly so are the other Survivors I get lumped in with. I know this to be a fact because NOED is rarely an issue, and even when it does come up, someone goes and finds the now lit one and ends the issue. If you want to talk about how Solo and Team are different, I'll talk about that with you all day. I think they should be in different Ques so that balance issues can be done via objective rather than Perk. But NOED is not really an issue. I know this for a fact because while Ruin+Undying was King people did Totems and NOED vanished until recently when Killers changed what regression combos were being used most often. I saw, both as Survivor and Killer, Totems get nuked off the map inside the first two minutes. Did it slow Generators down a bit? Yeah. That is why they are there, so there are other objectives.
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I would love having those that do totems be immune to NOED, that'd be an amazing change.
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