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"Survive With Friends Was Always Intended" - Louis Mclean Q&A 26th Oct 2018

Seanzu
Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526
edited October 2018 in General Discussions

So for those of you that continue to say this game was never meant to have "SWF" what are your thoughts now?

https://youtu.be/gTpZSllfMmw?t=591

Just an interesting thing from the stream today that is always usually pretty controversial, interested in what people have to say about this "cheat mode"?

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Comments

  • AgentTalon
    AgentTalon Member Posts: 331

    How many of us would opt into a "no SWF" playlist? I'm seriously asking because I would actually prefer to play against a smaller group of even a few hundred in total than see another SWF group who uses voice chat.

  • GodDamn_Angela
    GodDamn_Angela Member Posts: 2,213

    @Jack11803 said:

    @GodDamn_Angela said:
    Still doesn't mean it was originally designed for voice chat between Survivors. Which is what people complain about, not "SWF" at its most basic.

    If they didn’t expect or know that; they’re toddlers. I mean really, any friend function will onbvoiusly include them using some kind of chat.

    Obviously.

    I'm just referring to how they originally designed the game. Which was designed around unexpected things happening between Survivors and the only communication only really being the two emotes.

    But, that's on them.

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @AgentTalon said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @AgentTalon said:
    How many of us would opt into a "no SWF" playlist? I'm seriously asking because I would actually prefer to play against a smaller group of even a few hundred in total than see another SWF group who uses voice chat.

    Obviously, because why play the "harder" mode, lol.
    Still, pretending SWF teams are impossible to beat seems to be the consensus and it simply isn't true.

    I'm not pretending they are impossible to beat it's just not a fun game. If you get voice chat, which is essentially telepathy between the survivors, the killer should get to hear anything said between players if they are more than say 6 meters apart. Because that would mean the survivors are shouting to hear each other.

    That’s impossible to implement. And 6m is tiny

  • AgentTalon
    AgentTalon Member Posts: 331

    @Jack11803 said:

    @AgentTalon said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @AgentTalon said:
    How many of us would opt into a "no SWF" playlist? I'm seriously asking because I would actually prefer to play against a smaller group of even a few hundred in total than see another SWF group who uses voice chat.

    Obviously, because why play the "harder" mode, lol.
    Still, pretending SWF teams are impossible to beat seems to be the consensus and it simply isn't true.

    I'm not pretending they are impossible to beat it's just not a fun game. If you get voice chat, which is essentially telepathy between the survivors, the killer should get to hear anything said between players if they are more than say 6 meters apart. Because that would mean the survivors are shouting to hear each other.

    That’s impossible to implement. And 6m is tiny

    You could never actually do it because of 3rd party chat. I'm simply showing how comms from an in-game perspective is essentially telepathy between survivors. We all just need to accept that SWF and gaming with friends, in general, will always be a massive advantage over any solo player. Could be DBD, Battlefield or anything.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

  • AgentTalon
    AgentTalon Member Posts: 331

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:
    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

    They've honestly done nothing but buff killers recently I have no idea what killer mains have to complain about, you make it like you've never beaten an SWF squad before.

    I think it's the same reason survivors complain about camping, it makes the game less fun to play.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:
    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

    They've honestly done nothing but buff killers recently I have no idea what killer mains have to complain about, you make it like you've never beaten an SWF squad before.

    Yes they have fixed a lot of the broken loops, but they have not touched the SWF balance at all.
    Of course I have beaten several of those you can beat, but since I dont play billy/nurse, I have faced several ones where I didnt stand a chance :wink:

    As I said, I accepted that the devs will never change that and are acting accordingly now.

    Its one of those problems you gotta live with if you wanna play DBD, just like the peer to peer which is a huge joke aswell

  • AgentTalon
    AgentTalon Member Posts: 331

    Just had a thought to cheer everyone up. SWF is still not nearly as bad as Nuke boosters back in COD.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    @Master said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:
    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

    They've honestly done nothing but buff killers recently I have no idea what killer mains have to complain about, you make it like you've never beaten an SWF squad before.

    Yes they have fixed a lot of the broken loops, but they have not touched the SWF balance at all.
    Of course I have beaten several of those you can beat, but since I dont play billy/nurse, I have faced several ones where I didnt stand a chance :wink:

    As I said, I accepted that the devs will never change that and are acting accordingly now.

    Its one of those problems you gotta live with if you wanna play DBD, just like the peer to peer which is a huge joke aswell

    What exactly do you want them to do to "balance" around SWF? They've only made killers stronger, what else do you want, shotguns for your killers?

  • Keene_Kills
    Keene_Kills Member Posts: 649

    Exactly my point, they had to have taken it into account... in a game where one of the main points is the characters being unable to vocally communicate. So it's obvious that they didn't care.

    SWF itself never was an issue, it's the unregulated ability to voice comm which -- inarguably -- puts the killer at a severe disadvantage and renders a large majority of perks worthless on the killer side and unnecessary on the survivor side that's so sickening. Well, that and groups being able to bring ranks far above/below the killer's current rank, too, neutering the entire ranking system, as well, but that's for a whole 'nother post.

  • AgentTalon
    AgentTalon Member Posts: 331

    @Keene_Kills said:
    Exactly my point, they had to have taken it into account... in a game where one of the main points is the characters being unable to vocally communicate. So it's obvious that they didn't care.

    SWF itself never was an issue, it's the unregulated ability to voice comm which -- inarguably -- puts the killer at a severe disadvantage and renders a large majority of perks worthless on the killer side and unnecessary on the survivor side that's so sickening. Well, that and groups being able to bring ranks far above/below the killer's current rank, too, neutering the entire ranking system, as well, but that's for a whole 'nother post.

    This is an item that the devs could fix. Restrict the levels above and below that can be in a group. When I first started playing I would see groups of level 14, 12, 3, 3 and got wrecked and it sucked.

  • Peasant
    Peasant Member Posts: 4,104
    SenzuDuck said:

    @AgentTalon said:
    How many of us would opt into a "no SWF" playlist? I'm seriously asking because I would actually prefer to play against a smaller group of even a few hundred in total than see another SWF group who uses voice chat.

    Obviously, because why play the "harder" mode, lol.
    Still, pretending SWF teams are impossible to beat seems to be the consensus and it simply isn't true.

    Most SWF groups aren't as bad as most generally assume. I've had several games where if I hadn't checked profiles a SWF duo would've gone unnoticed by me. It's just the handful of nightmares like the De-pip squad and the few others that use comms like a SWAT team that warrant concern.
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:
    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

    They've honestly done nothing but buff killers recently I have no idea what killer mains have to complain about, you make it like you've never beaten an SWF squad before.

    Yes they have fixed a lot of the broken loops, but they have not touched the SWF balance at all.
    Of course I have beaten several of those you can beat, but since I dont play billy/nurse, I have faced several ones where I didnt stand a chance :wink:

    As I said, I accepted that the devs will never change that and are acting accordingly now.

    Its one of those problems you gotta live with if you wanna play DBD, just like the peer to peer which is a huge joke aswell

    What exactly do you want them to do to "balance" around SWF? They've only made killers stronger, what else do you want, shotguns for your killers?

    If they were smart they would give all the survivors an optional in game voice and text based chat so that there was no disparity between solo and SWF then buff the killers around that advantage. Instead we get cookie cutter changes that dont address why SWF is so overpowered. The devs seem to be adverse to taking the simplest and most efficient path in solving this issue.

    SWF isn't overpowered though, you can quite easily beat SWF teams without blinking an eye I don't get why it's "overpowered" I have never dodged a lobby because of items, offerings, swf and I reach rank one every season it absolutely bewildered me how people say it's "overpowered".

    Its not a secret that things like the depip squad exist.
    Sure, there are a lot of palyers at rank 1 that shouldnt be there because of the laughable ranking system, but that doesnt change anything.

    Does the depip squad still accept challenges? Maybe you wanna verse them and you will understand what were talking about

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:

    @Peasant said:
    SenzuDuck said:

    @AgentTalon said:

    How many of us would opt into a "no SWF" playlist? I'm seriously asking because I would actually prefer to play against a smaller group of even a few hundred in total than see another SWF group who uses voice chat.

    Obviously, because why play the "harder" mode, lol.

    Still, pretending SWF teams are impossible to beat seems to be the consensus and it simply isn't true.

    Most SWF groups aren't as bad as most generally assume. I've had several games where if I hadn't checked profiles a SWF duo would've gone unnoticed by me. It's just the handful of nightmares like the De-pip squad and the few others that use comms like a SWAT team that warrant concern.

    Sure, a lot of SWF are compltely potatoes because they boosted each other to a rank where they dont belong.
    But even if I 4k a toxic SWF, I simply dont have fun in those games and will do my best to avoid them now.
    And against the "SWAT" SWF, well sometimes I go afk and start a deranking series if sth like this happens^^
    The game isnt built around optimal play which is quite sad if you ask me

    The game isn't built around bad killers that need their hand held at every opportunity to be honest. You'll rarely get a "SWAT" swf team and even if you do you're getting angry at an intended mechanic because you're having a hard time dealing with it.

    Because something happens "rarely", it is balanced?

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    @AgentTalon said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:

    @Peasant said:
    SenzuDuck said:

    @AgentTalon said:

    How many of us would opt into a "no SWF" playlist? I'm seriously asking because I would actually prefer to play against a smaller group of even a few hundred in total than see another SWF group who uses voice chat.

    Obviously, because why play the "harder" mode, lol.

    Still, pretending SWF teams are impossible to beat seems to be the consensus and it simply isn't true.

    Most SWF groups aren't as bad as most generally assume. I've had several games where if I hadn't checked profiles a SWF duo would've gone unnoticed by me. It's just the handful of nightmares like the De-pip squad and the few others that use comms like a SWAT team that warrant concern.

    Sure, a lot of SWF are compltely potatoes because they boosted each other to a rank where they dont belong.
    But even if I 4k a toxic SWF, I simply dont have fun in those games and will do my best to avoid them now.
    And against the "SWAT" SWF, well sometimes I go afk and start a deranking series if sth like this happens^^
    The game isnt built around optimal play which is quite sad if you ask me

    The game isn't built around bad killers that need their hand held at every opportunity to be honest. You'll rarely get a "SWAT" swf team and even if you do you're getting angry at an intended mechanic because you're having a hard time dealing with it.

    Just curious but why so protective of SWF. If there isn't any real advantage to it shouldn't any changes be minimal to those groups?

    They can nerf it all they want, I don't play SWF with comms because I only play this game while streaming so don't have people in my voice chat w me, we still do fine, it's nothing to do with SWF it's just that bad killers are so rampant at ranks 1-10 and then come here and act as if a few good players used super uber covert tactics to ruin their match when in reality it's some plebs talking about what they had for dinner having a laugh.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:
    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

    They've honestly done nothing but buff killers recently I have no idea what killer mains have to complain about, you make it like you've never beaten an SWF squad before.

    Just keep in mind that Master came here to ask for help, as he was being looped for 5 gens WHILE STACKING BLOODLUST 3. Think about how bad you have to be to not catch someone with the old bloodlust speeds.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:

    @Peasant said:
    SenzuDuck said:

    @AgentTalon said:

    How many of us would opt into a "no SWF" playlist? I'm seriously asking because I would actually prefer to play against a smaller group of even a few hundred in total than see another SWF group who uses voice chat.

    Obviously, because why play the "harder" mode, lol.

    Still, pretending SWF teams are impossible to beat seems to be the consensus and it simply isn't true.

    Most SWF groups aren't as bad as most generally assume. I've had several games where if I hadn't checked profiles a SWF duo would've gone unnoticed by me. It's just the handful of nightmares like the De-pip squad and the few others that use comms like a SWAT team that warrant concern.

    Sure, a lot of SWF are compltely potatoes because they boosted each other to a rank where they dont belong.
    But even if I 4k a toxic SWF, I simply dont have fun in those games and will do my best to avoid them now.
    And against the "SWAT" SWF, well sometimes I go afk and start a deranking series if sth like this happens^^
    The game isnt built around optimal play which is quite sad if you ask me

    The game isn't built around bad killers that need their hand held at every opportunity to be honest. You'll rarely get a "SWAT" swf team and even if you do you're getting angry at an intended mechanic because you're having a hard time dealing with it.

    Because something happens "rarely", it is balanced?

    because you shouldn't be balancing a game around something that happens in probably less than 5% of matches, just like they shouldn't balance things around facecamping/camping because it happens in less than 15% of matches.

    And yet they adress facecamping/camping: Why do they do that? Because it is annoying AF to play against and will ruin your day even if it only happens once every day. Same applies to those SWF. Am I supposed to DC in those games where the game isnt balanced? Just a question :wink:

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    @Master said:
    And yet they adress facecamping/camping: Why do they do that? Because it is annoying AF to play against.

    They addressed it because it's boring gameplay, and is completely negatated by a survivor being close to the hook, so many killers "I only camp because theres another survivor close" so - if you're camping because someone is close you'll be fine, right?

    and will ruin your day even if it only happens once every day.

    Ohhh noooo, you had a bad game and it ruined your entire game?! Thats a you issue, not a game issue - getting salty because a team bested you is not "boring" gameplay, you just couldn't handle the challenge.

    Same applies to those SWF. Am I supposed to DC in those games where the game isnt balanced? Just a question :wink:

    I don't know what this implies, you can DC if you want, you'll probably be banned eventually - if you're being hard camped the match is already over, if you're playing against an SWF the game isn't over it's just as beatable as any other match that day it's up to you to decide how you handle it, if crying and dcings and posting on the forum asking for nerfs is your way about it go ahead, but other people, good killers will continue to decimate every SWF put infront of them.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @only1biggs said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:
    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

    They've honestly done nothing but buff killers recently I have no idea what killer mains have to complain about, you make it like you've never beaten an SWF squad before.

    Just keep in mind that Master came here to ask for help, as he was being looped for 5 gens WHILE STACKING BLOODLUST 3. Think about how bad you have to be to not catch someone with the old bloodlust speeds.

    Yes that was at the time where jungle gyms spawned everywhere and you needed to break almsot every pallet.

    Luckily these times are over now :wink:

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178
    edited October 2018

    @ZombieGenesis said:
    Good Killers beat Bad Players. Good SWF beat Good Killers every time. If you dispute that as a fact there's really no reasoning with you.

    Nobody has ever disputed that. But despite what the intellectual killers on the forums would have you believe, those groups are the rarity. 90% of the player base is casual.

    *edit - except for Duck it seems :P

  • Utna
    Utna Member Posts: 186

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:
    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

    They've honestly done nothing but buff killers recently I have no idea what killer mains have to complain about, you make it like you've never beaten an SWF squad before.

    Killer mains playing Nurse or Billy maybe, because there are fast to travel through the map and have straight forward power who do not rely on stealth or surprise. Trapper in the other hand have their traps exposed to the whole SWF team, even when only one guy witnessed the set up animation. This was just an example, but many tactics and perks get wrecked because of SWF voice comms ... Knock out, Insidious, NOED (when someone dies during the game and snitches the killer's perk), etc.

    All in all SWF and their voice communication makes the game poorer than it was intented to be, because anything secret or sneaky is shared between survivors when spotted by only one player ... so of course it's never gonna be good enough to compete with anti loop tactics. And not only the game isn't what it could be, but many interesting ideas will never make it into the game, just because it will make no sense in an evirronement driven by SWF players (ideas like shapeshifter killers, and such). At this rate, after the "anti loop" Clown, and "I'm not where I'm supposed to be" Spirit, I'm afraid the number of the new killer's power and perks ideas will run short very soon.

    So yeah, I don't know if SWF was the idea all along, but I'm pretty sure this is what will kill DBD in the end.

  • DemonDaddy
    DemonDaddy Member Posts: 4,167
    Its voice coms not swf that's the component of unbalance. As is its a strategy buster to the killer. Map wide communication destroys the killer's attempts to apply pressure and divert attention from the gens. Use teamwork all you want, that's how your meant to win, but coms promote a level coordination that would otherwise rarely be seen.
  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    @DemonDaddy said:
    Its voice coms not swf that's the component of unbalance. As is its a strategy buster to the killer. Map wide communication destroys the killer's attempts to apply pressure and divert attention from the gens. Use teamwork all you want, that's how your meant to win, but coms promote a level coordination that would otherwise rarely be seen.

    Are you implying that they added a game mode for friends and didn't anticipate people talking to each other? SWF is fine, and while I don't play SWF with comms it's also fine, it's not a game ender at all.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @Master said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:
    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

    They've honestly done nothing but buff killers recently I have no idea what killer mains have to complain about, you make it like you've never beaten an SWF squad before.

    Just keep in mind that Master came here to ask for help, as he was being looped for 5 gens WHILE STACKING BLOODLUST 3. Think about how bad you have to be to not catch someone with the old bloodlust speeds.

    Yes that was at the time where jungle gyms spawned everywhere and you needed to break almsot every pallet.

    Luckily these times are over now :wink:

    If you couldn't catch someone with BL3, that's on you, as was established in your thread :D

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @ZombieGenesis said:
    Good Killers beat Bad Players. Good SWF beat Good Killers every time. If you dispute that as a fact there's really no reasoning with you.

    It absolutely isn't a fact at all, lmfao.
    And using this example, not every SWF is good, so they're perfectly beatable, but again - lets pretend they're all OP and unmatchable.

    Also love the good old "if you don't agree with me theres no point discussing it" - what a cop out.

    Just remembered that you are a streamer and checked your channel.
    Opened your clips and were only able to find 2 killer clips from this year. Seems like you mostly play survivor, but maybe your viewers dont clip killer moments, I dont know.

    I found a few killer clips though:

    https://clips.twitch.tv/DoubtfulDeadNewtYee
    https://clips.twitch.tv/AgreeableQuaintBeanDxCat
    https://clips.twitch.tv/ElegantPatientDumplingsOhMyDog
    Then a clip where you 4k with nurse, nice, but seems like you struggle a lot, even with billy

    Maybe you are just not a good killer if you dont manage to 4k all the time, I dont know :wink:

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @only1biggs said:

    @Master said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    @Master said:
    Just throws bad light on the devs as usual.
    But I dont care anymore, if they will never balance voice comms, thats fine and I will live with it, you can always derank or lobbydodge and avoid most of it

    They've honestly done nothing but buff killers recently I have no idea what killer mains have to complain about, you make it like you've never beaten an SWF squad before.

    Just keep in mind that Master came here to ask for help, as he was being looped for 5 gens WHILE STACKING BLOODLUST 3. Think about how bad you have to be to not catch someone with the old bloodlust speeds.

    Yes that was at the time where jungle gyms spawned everywhere and you needed to break almsot every pallet.

    Luckily these times are over now :wink:

    If you couldn't catch someone with BL3, that's on you, as was established in your thread :D

    Yeah we established in this thread that it was my fault for trying to chase the optimal survivor and I was told that I should go for a weaker one.
    I remember that one very well :wink:

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