Why I think NOED should be changed
Comments
-
Any time i solo Q if i see bones i cleanse them, mostly because if there is undying im taking out a spot that ruin could move to. Now that they are nerfing undying the only people who cleanse totems are gonna be the ones running inner strength.
A better solution would be to have more survivor perks that run like inner strength and give incentive to cleanse, or make hex perks stronger, only allowing 1 hex perk, and then get progressively weaker as totems get cleansed.
As it is most hex perks arent even worth running and need a buff anyways. The only 3 reasons to even really cleanse hex totems is Ruin, NOED and devour hope.
Edit: Maybe huntress lullaby too if you rely on the audio clue for skill checks
Post edited by kingcarl2012 on2 -
Bruh, run detective's hunch.
4 -
Or a map
1 -
But noed is always hidden on gates even the survivors don't search them the totem always hidden close there is a very weak perk in red ranks but for look of us some players don't know that's issue, sometimes I can do a big mess for survivors even in red ranks, I'm very thankful with that perk because It let you win sometimes games that looks lost for the genrush
0 -
I played perfectly last night against a huntress. Avoided her all game, repaired 2 gens, 2 saves and then got hit by noed with about 3 seconds of exit gate left as she was camping a hooked survivor just yards away. Didn't deserve to lose that match. Annoying perk but it's a part of the game, just had to suck it up. Not sure how it can be changed.
0 -
NOED is fine. Do the totems and it'll be ok.
2 -
But did you play "perfectly" in reality? I notice some missing things from your list above; you don't mention doing any Bones. Also, "avoiding" the Killer all game isn't generally considered perfect either. It means you didn't spend your share of time in chases, but that is very subjective. What is key is you THINK yo played perfectly but didn't cleanse a single Totem. I would submit that it is your perception of things that might need some adjustment. Also, why would you go to the same gate where the Killer is camping a Hook nearby? Wouldn't it make more sense to run to the other gate? A camping Killer isn't going to intercept you there.
I appreciate that you accept it is part of the game, and know we just have to suck those kind of things up, however, and I salute that.
2 -
You'll laugh at this bit then.
The game before this one, I did exactly the same, avoided trapper all game, all others got hooked twice, fixed 2 gens, 1 save, 1 disarm and then got dropped and mori'd by Devour Hope the only time he got close to me 😫
He earned it though.
0 -
Yep. The problem for all stealthy but productive Survivors is that toward the end game you often catch a back building wave from hell.
2 -
Noed should just collect 1-4 tokens throughout the match so if you hook a survivor you get a token and you are able to instadown that survivor after the gens are done. This would reward the players that have played well but just had one of those matches where gens have been going fast and also punish players who have played badly.
Lets be honest most survivors only get upset about noed when they have been able to outplay the killer all match just to get hit with noed right at the end. I know if I've gone against a decent killer who's been good in chases and played well but they have been on one of the big maps or haddonfield especially and gens have just gone fast that match I just take it on the chin and accept it.
1 -
Well, for a crutch perk for inexperienced players, it does a good enough job. However, I don't think hail maries should be able to win an entire game on one perk's merits. I think that it should activate when the endgame collapse occurs, since that'll still give you a decent amount of time to get one down at least, and/or notify survivors that they are exposed the moment the endgame collapse begins.
1 -
Your talking about it like the killer sits there and does nothing until NOED activates and then 4ks which unless they are making a crazy bloodwarden play shouldnt happen.
Once you know its in play you have 2 options.
Either cleanse it and then go for saves so they killer gets nothing from it.
Or say screw it let them have the one and everyone else gets out.
Besides that if the killer did play the whole game and got some hooks and did the prep work to be in the running for an actual 4k theres nothing wrong with doing it as a hail mary. Ever watch an nfl superbowl teams win on hail mary's sometimes.
There is nothing wrong with NOED, it counters both adrenaline and hope, and you can get rid of it before it activates by cleansing totems. Its also a fair equalizer for lower level killers who get screwed over by the games horrible matchmaking, I'm a rank 13 killer and when i play i routinely get matched up with much higher rank higher skill survivors, so I often run NOED to even up the odds a bit.
1 -
There are plenty of videos of "afk" killers with NOED.
Survivors have all the time to cleanse totems. Yet they prefer to do gens only. Even with no pressure and then die to NOED.
I think it's save to say, that survivors are to lazy to do totems.
3 -
Nope. NOED is fine where it is. I have had games where survivors rush the generators and the gate is open before I have managed to sacrifice anyone. NOED gave me the chance to kill someone that I did not have before the collapse. NOED is fine where it is and I look at it as somewhat of a counter to gen rushing.
What needs to be fixed is rank 16 killers having to play against a team of red and purple survivors.
2 -
NOED is just a punisher for survivors that were sitting on gens whole time and didn't do bones, if you can avoid killer hitting you, consider it as - NOED isn't a problem. There's lot of perks that let u counter totems, one of them is detective's hunch, either run it or don't complain about getting NOED-ed.
3 -
I run it all the time solo. But there's still times when I'll cleanse 4 totems do more gens and hooks saves than the rest of my team and end up in the longest chases with the killer and still get hit with Noed at the end even without getting caught through the entire match. Is that still fair?
0 -
Yes. This is a 4v1 game. If the rest of your team didn't pull their weight, start posting and complaining about that. NOED isn't the problem then, it is clearly Survivors CHOOSING not to do Bones. 4v1 is a TEAM effort and hopefully more people will stop ignoring Totems which are an objective in the game. Choosing to ignore them is the SAME gamble the Killer makes when he/she chooses to put them in, i.e. high risk and potentially high reward. So lets say YOU and your team ignore the entirely. You don't do a single one, even though you normally do 2-4 by yourself. You focus entirely on Generators. You burn through them and at the end of the game, HIGH REWARD you all get out and see there were no Totems of importance. Good on you. But the opposite is the gamble. The Killer built for End Game, and all the sudden you all pay a high price.
This is no different for the Killer. They gamble they will get a return on those things, that you won't find (or simply ignore) his/her Totems. They play the match Perks down hoping some of these will pay off late game. Do you see where I'm going with this. So, YES... it is fair. Do Bones.
2 -
I think a simple global notification that you are exposed would be sufficient at the EGC. This would put survivors on pause on opening the exit gates and encourage them to find the totem probably cause a new fad on undying and NOED.
0 -
No it's not fair at all that if I'm carrying the whole team and doing everything just to get punished for it at the end. I play killer as well and I never use it because it's a cheap perk IMO. But it's like I said most survivors don't care if they get hit by noed at the end but that killers played well all match, the only time it's a problem is when they've played poorly and then they are being rewarded for it at the end of the match by getting kills because of a perk.
0 -
Then start posting about Teammates NOT DOING THEIR share. It clearly isn't NOED being the problem. Bad teammates are going to be an issue whether NOED is in the game or not. :) And if you don't like being part of that 4v1, just play Killer or find a game where you don't have to rely on anyone; there are plenty of them out there. We all face NOED. Plenty of us are able to function just fine and still get out, win even. If I can play Solo and weather the trials and tribulations of NOED, so can you.
3 -
David Bowie said it better than I ever could.
2 -
If you're not able to hook all 4 survivors that match at least once then you don't deserve to get a free win because of a perk and you deserve to lose that match . But hey your right I should just jump into a match with a 4 man SWF so I don't have to worry about it, obviously no one has a problem with 4 mans right 🙄
0 -
Yeah because no one plays killer and says ds isn't fair right 🙄
0 -
Ok, are you really going to make me do this? I didn't really feel like bringing out the rhetorical sledgehammer this morning, but it seems like you desperately need some perspective.
- The Killer doesn't get a "free" win. That is entitled, self-involved thinking. You should be ashamed of yourself.
- Just because NOED goes off, you don't magically get found, run down, or put on a hook.
- Even if you don't find and cleanse it during the early match, you can still do it after you discover it is around.
- There are lots of Killers who either START the game with Insta-Down and have it all game, or gain it during game.
- These other methods of Insta-Down don't even give you, the Survivor, a way to turn them off.
- There are two gates; the Killer can't be at both at the same time.
- You can simply choose to leave; nothing forces you to be super altruistic.
- You can still loop, assuming you know how.
- There are still Perks and Add-on(s) that you or your Teammates can use to get someone right back up.
- Accept that this COMMON Perk is there because the DEV want it to be there and available to every Killer.
So now that I gave you a quick top ten (and I could go a lot higher), let's delve into a few of them. Chainsaw-wielding maniacs can Insta-Down you all game. They make NOED look tame. There are other Perks which allow Insta-Down like Haunted Ground, Make Your Choice, Iron Maiden, etc. Devour Hope even lets you add the Mori in. These things tend to happen early to mid game as well as at the end. There are Killers whose Power allows them to Insta-Down you, the best known examples being Oni and my man Myers. You don't get a way to turn our power off; bummer right? I could go on and on. The only reason NOED feels worse to you is because you are operating under a DELUSION. You think because you got all those Generators up that you won, that you deserve it.
That isn't how it works. You haven't survived until you get out the gate. It is YOU that is expecting some kind of undeserved win.
5 -
Go back through my 2K+ posts and see if you can find any where I comment on DS (or any Perk) saying it isn't fair. :) I tell Killers who complain about Survivor Perks the same thing I'm telling you. If you don't like the game, there are plenty of others out there. Whining about things here is an unattractive trait. Screaming about how unfair things are is what a six year old does. We adapt; we move on. I play against the same things you do, both as Killer and Survivor, and I manage to get by.
2 -
The point is there are broken things on each side the both need changing. Most people who produce content on the game or are experienced in the game knows this so if you don't that's your problem.
0 -
No, the point is you and I disagree on whether it is broken or not. I think it is fine. Sometimes I make suggestions about tweaking it to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR to Survivors that they are supposed to do Bones. I suspect I watch all the same content producers you do, perhaps more. You should be careful making blanket statements. Do you really want me to to start posting clips proving you wrong? I'm going to cut you some slack because you clearly aren't taking a look at this issue in an unbiased way. You have been stung by NOED and instead of asking yourself, "what can I do better to overcome this obstacle" you start saying "THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED." Do you see the difference between you and I? Some people rise to challenges, and some people just like to complain.
I've not made my mind up about you yet, because everyone feels a bit stung the first couple of times NOED cuts them down. I have faith you can rise the challenge and find ways to get around it. My point, which you ignored or avoided answering multiple times is:
- You claim to kill Bones all the time, getting up to 4 all by yourself.
- You state you think it is unfair that your teammates don't help so NOED gets you.
- Where are your threads or posts talking about bad teammates and trying to educate them?
- There are only five Totems on the map. If you get up to four yourself, that means only one other Survivor has to kill one, right?
Do you see why I have no sympathy for your cause? It is misguided. It is biased. It is entitled and self-involved. It seems to me that the more effective way to deal with your problem would be to focus on getting the word out to other Survivors that each one should cleanse at least one, probably the first, Totem they see. Four survivors means only one Totem is left, and if someone like you can do four in a match, then the problem is GONE. There are countless Perks and Gear that help you find Totems. Why do you think that is? Why would the DEV make NOED a common Perk, provide you with Perks to hunt them, and maps to find them, if they didn't want you guys spending at least 16 seconds each killing one. Think hard.
4 -
Someone's made a post on a discussion on why they think noed should be changed and I have given my opinion on how it should be changed if it was. If you then want to challenge that by saying that you're right and I am wrong then what's the point of even having a discussion forum. I understand it can be countered and I have a lot of experience in this game to know how to do so but if I want to give my opinion on how I feel it could be changed to reward the players who play well then I have every right to do so.
0 -
If the killer is so BAD at the game that they are using NOED, it should be so EASY for you to cleanse all dull totems.
I mean, the killers bad, right??..........
@crybaby
3 -
Sure you do, and I have every right (an obligation even) to challenge what you submit if I think it is wrong. This is a Forum, and the moment we post, our words can and will be challenged by others. That is part of the value. For the record, and I think I said this before, I would change NOED as follows:
- It activates just like it does now.
- The only Survivors who are Exposed are those that didn't do a single Totem up to that point.
- The gate handles are locked down and cannot be thrown for 60 seconds or until the now Lit NOED is found and cleansed.
I think this method would punish the Survivors who didn't do their share of Totems more, and still affect the entire Team and make sure they kill all the Totems. Totems are objectives and were always intended to take some heat off the Gen-Rush. I think making that even MORE clear would motivate your Teammates to do their job. You see, I can offer suggestions for tweaks too, but that doesn't mean I think NOED needs a change, only that the game might benefit from one.
1 -
I don't think NOED should be changed, but I don't think this a good sentiment for defending it.
Many survivors point to one of two things being their favorite part of the game: Chases, or Stealth.
If a killer isn't pressuring them to do either, because they believe they're AFK, then yes- many will just sit on gens because they want the game to be over with faster, so they can move on to the next one where they can actually interact with other players.
0 -
If you had brought that opinion up at the beginning then I would have agreed with you and even thought that could be a good compromise, I think that's a great idea actually. But to tell someone it's fine and they are wrong and this is why makes the point of having a discussion redundant. I mean if Noed never changed then it is what it is and accept it and I'll try and deal with it the best way possible. I just wanted to give an opinion on how I would change it if it was going to be changed.
0 -
Fair point, and if you felt like I was challenging your right to have your say, you have my apology. I do think NOED is fine as it is, but only because I think Survivors should be able to learn, slow but sure, what is in their own best interest and make choices. I think agency is important for Survivors and Killers. The compromise I suggest is a good one, but it removes agency to a large degree. It makes it absolutely clear that they better do the Totems, i.e. it isn't a choice or a gamble, it is almost a necessity and punishes those who are lazy extra.
If NOED were to be changed, I'd suggest this because I think the Perk (and those like it) serve an important purpose, i.e. to get people to work on Bones as an objective. But overall, I think it would be better that Survivors just learn over time that it is in their own best interest to do them without being so heavy handed. In general, most Survivors do learn this lesson, and your teammates do get better. I rarely find NOED bites me anymore when I play Survivor because even if enough Totems survive to the end, someone kills the lit one. I think that is a good testament to trusting Players to learn on their own.
1 -
I agree. It can be frustrating when your team mates can abandon the second objective of not cleansing totems. You are right that they should learn to not walk past a dull totem and even if they don't have a map or perk to help them should learn where the totem spawns are and just have a quick check of that area if they go there during the match and cleanse one if they find it in that spot. A lot of the time if I bring a map or perk for totems it's when a new map comes out or they change an old one so I can familiarise myself with the spawns and then just check those areas in future matches.
1 -
It seems to be that almost everyone is catering more toward the "crutch" term and not exactly thinking about how NoED is supposed to be a clutch type Hex perk to make killers harder to face in the end of a trial. Any change to be made of it will always be a ner, no excuses. It's purpose, skilled or not, is to let the killer gain the upper hand as long as the totem stands. Most high skills in the community that even struggle in the EGC themselves are too scared to use NoED because it pictures them as a bad player, even though that negative reflection comes from the same people who would run every second chance survivor perk to carry them in a chase they wouldn't last 10 seconds in.
Both sides have similar things.
1 -
Thats weird. Survivors like chases and stealth. Yet they wouldn´t cleanse a totem, even if their live depended on it. They just push gens.
When a survivor knows how to run in circles, this significantly increases the length of the chase. Especially when mindgames are ignored by widescreen monitors. Meanwhile the other survivors will push gens. Ignoring everything else around them.
2 -
I... have no clue what you're on about.
Survivors will cleanse totems if they have a reason to cleanse them. (IE: A hex totem in play, or a perk that's based on Totems.) Otherwise, why wouldn't they work on gens? That's their objective. It's the killer's job to pressure them and make that harder for them.
There's a ton of games as survivor where it's a struggle to get all 5 gens done. Let alone trying to track down all 5 totems, unless you're a part of a sweaty SWF (which are pretty rare.)
NOED is fine where it is. But Killers pretending to be AFK and then getting a 4k because they had NOED + Blood Warden and wonder why the Survivors never cleansed bones all game is a poor example of why it's fine where it is.
0 -
The issue is that totems are RNG reliant.
The purpose of the perk is not to counter adrenaline and hope. It is far too broad to just counter both perks, and what are the chances all survivors are running both, assuming they get value from both?
The point of NOED, as has been noted, is to guarantee at least one kill after a rough game. I've used NOED plenty, but the amount of 4K's that I've gotten after playing horribly is absurd. I'd much rather use rancor, since 1) it actually guarantees a *kill* and 2) it guarantees only one. Under the correct circumstances, which have been rather common for me, a build like NOED, infectious, and blood warden can hand you a swift victory after literally doing nothing, as long as I get decent totem spawns.
I'm not crazy about some ridiculous ideas from some other community members, but NOED is supposed to be a crutch perk. It should operate as such, not a singular key to victory.
0 -
I disagree.
NoEd is fine, and the game needs a perk like noEd so that killers don't give up hope and throw the game when gens pop left and right. Killers need a catchup mechanic for when the survivors outplay them. I totally agree with Almo when he says that the perk is fine and balanced, and actually in my opinion necessary.
It also makes it important not to just genrush and to also do totems. Which is a good thing and something all killers want to happen. And of course survivors can choose to ignore so and take their chances in the endgame. I think this is perfectly fine.
NoEd is one of the more balanced perks and a necessity in the game IMO.
I always say this but if anything needs nerfing or changing it's BBQ (nobody else agrees with me though). BBQ is bad for the game and is one of the perks responsible for putting the game on the trajectory it's on today.
4 -
This is not COD fartnite..stop trying to make it into that
0 -
This is true, but I think NoEd isn't the palce to take this out on. NoEd fills a role that needs to be in the game (catchup mechanic) so killers have a chance of making a comeback in case they get overwhelmed.
Instead, the game needs to be rebalanced in many ways. The most obvious of course is matchmaking -- something that has plagued this game forever. If killers and survivors of roughly equal escape/killing ability are matched mismatches in time deficit won't be as bad. And BHVR really should revisit detection perks and gen slowdown perks so that survivors won't feel pressured to genrush.
The problem with this game is that it has been streamlined into rushing games on both ends. The game was much better back in 2017 when it wasn't as hectic and rush-based.
0 -
NOED doesn't guarantee anything. I've seen plenty of times where you get a down and a hook, they cleanse the totem and get the save and you get nothing. Or you get the down and 3 get out, because they dont bother going for the totem. Yes you can make a spicy endgame build with blood warden, and if they are overly altruistic you can get more, but thats on the survivors and how they play once they know NOED is on the field.
At it's core it is a direct counter to adrenaline and hope, and your right that isnt going to come up every game but i have seen it and got burned by it by a swf group before, your also right in that it can be used in a much broader fashion when those perks arent in play, but you never know what survivors are running until you know.
If you prefer running rancor great then run it (which not everyone can if they dont have spirit or get it from the shrine). But Calling it a crutch perk is completely wrong, its a second chance perk for the killer if anything and unlike survivors killers only get one.
0 -
I doubt you carried the whole team. Survivors are a broken record. You all complain about the same stuff then get on the forums and demand NOED be nerfed. Do totems.
1 -
Why is that a poor example? When i play against a afk killer, i make sure to find and cleanse every single totem. Not only for the free points, but to prevent NOED. I really don´t get, why survivors are so allergic to doing totems.
Survivors wanted a secondary objective for ages. Then they have a good reason to cleanse totems, and yet they prefer to ignore them.
2 -
How would you know how any match I'm in goes when you're not in them. Beside when someone makes a post about changing noed I have every right to put an opinion as to how it could be changed if it was.
0 -
DS exists. Unbreakable exists. Power Struggle exists. Dead Hard for Distance is a thing.
But yes, let's nerf NOED. The one killer perk that could even come close to considered a "crutch" on it's own, and also happens to be the most counterable perk in the video game.
1 -
Confused.
You say it is being used as a crutch perk for new players but then go on to say that it's not fair that Survivors should be expected to do totems because they probably don't have enough time to do them. This line of reasoning literally makes no sense. Are new Killers using it, meaning Survivors have plenty of time to do nothing, or are high-level Killers using it pressuring you so hard that you can;t even attempt to look for a totem? You say yourself that you moved on to BBQ & Chili later on after you got better. Why'
Also, cleansing/looking for totems doesn't make you useless. Learn where totems spawn and check the areas as you pass through and cleanse them, if you want, or remember where it was so you can check back later to see it is lit.
You could also take Small Game. But if have a real hard time finding them there are perks, and maps, that show you the exact location of totems. It's not like it's hopeless, or that time consuming, to try and ensure an escape against NoED. 🤷♂️
0 -
I ran NOED a few times and it did end up be punishing at the end for survivors. If you watch any high level streamer, they analyze what the build could be. Isn't that a part of the strategy? Some builds are obvious like Ruin/Undying/Corrupt Intervention, Thtilling Tremors. Others can be found quickly like Sloppy Butcher, PGTW, etc due to longer healing and sudden gen regression.
Some builds you can kind of figure out like Basement Bubba (Insidous, Iron Grasp, Mad Grit).
Some others are harder to determine but become apparent once game starts depending on killer gameplay (Whispers, Discordance, BBQ, Tinkerer).
Goal shouldn't just be to outlast the killer, but figure out what their overall strategy is. If you cannot definitely say NOED is not part of their build, then aim to cleanse at least 1 totem.
If you're not doing HW of figuring out the build and/or cleansing a totem, then maybe NOED can be seen as having too much tunnel vision. And you can still cleanse the lit totem once its avtivates so it takes the guesswork out of it.
0 -
My idea for a NOED rework:
After all generators have been repaired, gain a token for each totem still remaining in the trial. For each token, gain a 2% movement speed increase. This effect remains permanent for the remainder of the trial regardless if a survivor cleanses a totem after generators have been repaired.
When at least one Exit Gate is opened, hitting a survivor with a basic attack will cause the Entity to block the Exit Gates for that survivor for 10/15/20 seconds. This can only be done once per survivor.
This I feel would make NOED a more fair perk and also ties into the “no escaping death” theme of the perk by having the exit gates be blocked. It can also be a good counter to survivors waiting/teabagging at the Exit Gates
0 -
I just think it's a poor example because of how I play as a Survivor. I go after dull bones for NOED if I'm running an Inner Strength locker build, or based on how the killer is playing and the perks I can count from them. (I've counted four perks? No reason to go for NOED bones. Killer is playing poorly and looks like they need help? Go for dull bones, they probably have NOED.) Kinda like how if a Killer sees a Survivor use Lithe or Balanced Landing, they're not going to try to bait out a Dead Hard from them- or if there's no obsession, the Killer might feel more inclined to tunnel.
I see it more like changing my gamestyle to counter the possibility of a killer's perk- especially since I already do secondary objectives. They're just not totems, since I'm a chest junkie, and tend to run Ace in the Hole+Plunderer's whenever possible, and will do all the chests I see.
I'm not opposed to doing bones, but I just don't really find them to be as fun, or in many cases, as impactful as other secondary objectives in the game, which just makes them a lot less satisfying.
To be fair though, I also know my totem spawns, so if NOED does pop up, unless I'm on a Swamp map, chances are it's going to go down anyway when it gets proct, so I don't see it to be a problem.
0
