Most survivors are just bad at the game
People need to stop listening to survivors who whine about ruin undying. They make it seem like it's impossible to win when killers run these perks. I'm a killer Main and beat this combo in solos! This combo only seems op because you have survivors who hide and do nothing whole game or leave gens when they hear the TR.
https://youtu.be/wzanAto9XLU
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I don't have any issues with it in solo either.
Most the time me and the other randos just ignore it and leave them up all game. It's really that little of an issue.
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The killer you were playing against looks like they just started two days ago. A killer that's been playing for at least a month could've done way better.
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The devs should have given Undying two transfers instead of one.
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I fully agree. The devs need to stop catering to new players and tell them to git gud. This is what happens when you hold someone's hand for too long. Or when you start handing out participation trophies because "everyone is special". Your just hiding them from reality. The longer you put it off the worse it's gonna be when it finally hits.
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Most killers are also bad at this game. They keep whining about DS and UB and DH.
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You can look at BHVR's track record and know that will never happen lol.
To be honest, veteran players should have seen this coming after Ruin got nerfed.
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I think you unintentionally bring up a good point.
Genuine question, what makes killers complaints about perks valid but survivors complaints about perks invalid?
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Why are the Ranks not shown at the end?
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They're all valid honestly, but entitled killers will act like survivor complaints aren't valid and entitled survivors will act like killer complaints aren't valid. I think the problem though with comparing the DS/UB argument to the Ruin/Undying argument is that the counter to DS/UB is giving into either DS or UB but Ruin/Undying is just cleansing totems which (regardless of whether or not survivors want to admit it or not) is a side objective to survivors. Although not necessary to complete the trial and escape, it needs to get done if something is in the way such as the fear of NOED or Undying.
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Survivors are a team. Killers are alone?
One side is also clearly in short supply. If their complaints weren't valid how do you explain their absence?
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Well killer mains that complain about perks think they're right b/c they are 1 person and seeing multiple uses of the perk in almost every match they play. There are more survivor players so they voice their complaints a lot more which brings their credibility down a lot and causes killers to think they're complaining about every little thing that doesn't go their way. I disagree with both sides, Ruin + UD wasn't OP, just bad survivors that complained a lot about it. And vice versa for the killers bringing up DS/DH/UB. There are counters, people just don't use them or think of how to get around these things.
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In your OP you just summed up why people only play in SWF’s now. With the current state of the game, Ruin/Undying is always going to be a problem in solo que. Take it from someone who used to play in SWF everyday, I guarantee you that Solo que wouldn’t be able to knock out that combo as fast as SWF. This is why I’m glad for the upcoming update so it can receive its nerf.
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Same applies to killers who complain about everything that makes them lose lol
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I have a picture it was all red ranks
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I don't think the amount of either side does or should matter. Killers can make really weird complaints and survivors can make completely valid complaints.
From what I have observed it seems that if your a survivor your complaints are automatically invalid while if your killer your complaints are automatically supported and valid. I could be wrong.
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Most people in general are bad at the game.
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Most players (both sides) aren't as good at the game as they think they are so they find something to blame instead of learning from their own mistakes. Survivors that blame Ruin/Undying for their loss and call it OP are the ones that don't like having the second objective of cleansing totems and/or having a killer that can actually pressures gens for Ruin to be useful.
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What an example... Terrible killer player on a terrible map for Blight. 2 hooks only. Are you serious?
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But then when survivors lose against ruin undying it's not their fault right? It's not because they played bad, it's because ruin undying is op right? btw that is not a terrible map for blight, only indoor maps are bad for him.
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Most survivors are bad at the game and that's why playing solo q against Ruin + Undying was too strong. It's why against 1000 hour swf teams it wasn't as op because they were all good players.
The devs shouldn't balance the game around the top 1%. The chances they've made to Undying were actually good and breath new life into other hex totems that weren't used.
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I think it has mostly to do with the fact that most of the survivors refuse to adapt to a different killer or build.
Sure you have surivers who start hiding as soon as they hear the TR on the edge of it.
When i come across a hex totem I'll cleanse it, otherwise I'll just stick to the gen.
Am I being pushed off?
If he doesn't commit to the chase than I'll be back in no time.
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That’s fair I still think undying devour will be good but I’m fine with that
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I personally think that most games are NOT won by the killer, but rather lost by the survivors.
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Yes most of survivior are trash like any other game 90% of players are trash
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I barely Play survivor and im glad i don't because it's too easy. You can have up to 4 second chance perks because the Devs favor survivor fun more then killers fun. They should balance around good players not urban immersion claudettes that just hide whole game. Make people git gud at the game and not just make everything easier.
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I just had a group of survivors throw a game as plague because they kept trying to force this one generator that was almost done and they got it, but only after everyone was hooked like once each and 2 people twice even.
They cleansed at the worst times, only to get suck again unhooking someone.
They then told me that I was the one who was bad at the game; and called me names. They called plague a broken and overpowered killer lol.
It's not so much just survivors, the community as a whole is just....bad.
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And nobody wants to get better at the game because why should they? They can just be bad and get everything nerfed to their level.
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A lot do.
Though matchmaking/ranking in this game is also terrible. So if you are not good, you often are just....not allowed to have fun. With survivors it's just less stressful, but the problem exists for both sides.
I mean, you have survivors that are just mad they got curb stomped but like I said the survivors I mentioned were TERRIBLE; but they were technically red ranked.
I get venting, I just think people are not directing it in healthy or intelligent ways a lot of the time. They don't analyze anything, they just screech at the killer or try and fabricate some excuse, ANY excuse other than doing actual self reflection.
All the best players in this game, are the ones who can self reflect. You see it watching Otz and such for example.
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I'm a killer main, but certain stuff killers complain about have been in the game longer, but it doesn't make it any less whiney. The game used to be heavily survivor-sided, so alot of people are still weary about survivor complaints be it valid or not.
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i suck at dealing with life, what do i do? omg
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I've seen just as many killer ideas invalidated /ignored (whether rightfully or not). Ironically, I've seen a killer bring up DS/unbreakable in an argument against ruin/undying and got immediately invalidated because whataboutism. I think both sides get about equal push back.
Also, a lot of the time a killer shows a killer being weak or how powerful survivors can be/ powerful perk combos, survivors tend to say that the killer is bad. Same idea.
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Survivor isn't easy. If your playing solo q you die more than you live because of bad matchmaking and the fact most survivors are terrible.
The devs don't favour either side, even if they make some questionable decisions at times.
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Maybe you should git gud at killer then. The irony is really strong here.
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Tbf that killer you went against was terrible. Can you please show one where the killer is actually good?
I always play solo and I'm at red ranks. if the killer you go against is good you will struggle, specially because a lot of red rank survivors got carried there by their swf and go down in 2 seconds. cant be doing saves, cleansing totems and doing gens all at the same time
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Not necessarily cater but make the experience the most fun possible - yes. The reason being player retention. Old ruin was changed for this exact reason. Bad against survivors who hit the hex skill check and stomp new players who cannot. You'll find that other games that players compete (Counter-Strike, League of legends, Overwatch) will balance to the highest level of player because anything that gives anybody an unfair edge will be abused and you lose that true ability to compete.
Ruin + Undying is strong in any part of the playerbase because no matter what it always increases the time ruin stays in the game. New ruin is much much stronger than old ruin in the highest level of dbd because the killer can pressure survivors off generators to receive instant value and time saves.
Was it overpowered? I'd argue no, however, the RNG element of cleansing up to 4 totems was very mundane to me and almost guaranteed a loss because of the time waste. The probabilities are as follows:
(1/2)^1 = 1/2 Games of ruin + undying cleansing the undying totem first time.
(1/2)^2 = 1/4 Games of Ruin + Undying cleansing ruin twice.
(1/2)^3 = 1/8 Games of ruin + undying cleansing ruin thrice.
(1/2)^4 = 1/16 Games of ruin + undying cleansing ruin four times.
As you can see the games where you cleansing ruin more than twice is fairly unlikely and when you cleanse less than 3 times I'd say both sides have a fair chance to escape or 4k. This is why killers think it's been overnerfed and I agree it should be two totems. However, everyone surely can agree that cleansing 3 or more ruin totems is getting way too much value out of undying especailly when no player has control over this.
I am always an advocate for RNG elements to be stamped out of dbd where possible and this nerf has done exactly that. That said, I do agree it should be two totems post nerf.
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The thing is the chances they made were very good to other hex totems. I genuinely believe we will see more lullaby and devour hope games because of this change.
I would agree the nerf isn't what I would've done but the change they made was actually a healthy one for the game. The games where 4/5 totems needed to be cleansed were stupid and pretty much a guaranteed lose while playing solo q. If they made Undying two totems I wouldn't have been against it.
I will say though the probability thing can't be used to judge escapes. Other factors like how long it takes you to find and cleanse totems, whether ruin lasts the whole game, the map and who the killer is effects all the escape rates.
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Most survivors just lack common sense.
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Yeah my overall opinion is it's a good change. I too hope to see some devour games ran with undying.
Yes definitely it was a healthy change to game. Even against swf the time it buys is uncanny if you have had to cleanse all totems to remove ruin.
Now the calculations I made were to try and show people how often the unfair part of undying occurs. Yes it's not a metric to gauge an escape rate but it definitely plays a part in the escape rate of ruin + undying games. I was trying to point out that the killer complaints about it being overnerfed are fairly valid because two undying totem cleanse games were very escapeable in my opinion.
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Honestly I never had any problems with undying in its current state as solo survivor.
I even used it against the killer multiple times to distract him while others were doing the gens.
What I'm afraid of when it will be nerfed (and maybe I am wrong about it) is that there will be more killers who are going to camp, slug and tunnel.
It already happening more than I've seen before and I think that will honestly become even more after the nerf.
Tho i truly hope that I'm wrong here
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Fair enough lad. I wish more of the community understood why this change was good but you can't please everyone.
I might even try using Devour on some of my other killers after the change.
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When are we gonna stop on the one-side slamming titles? Not to stir up something, but it seems to me that people care far too much about other peeps's opinions.
Just stop caring and move along? It's a game.
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Both sides like to play the Whataboutism card, which is hilarious.
BHVR doesn't favor either side. Believing otherwise is just delusional and extremely myopic. BHVR simply does what must be done to balance the game as best as they can. If we want to talk about which side got more balance changes in their favor it's definitely killer, not even a question. Does that mean BHVR is killer-sided? Of course not.
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2 Cleanses is not always escapable. Depends a lot on the skill level of the killer and survivors.
There are times when no Undying and just Ruin is enough to kill everyone. I played a match earlier today with a Freddy using Ruin Undying Tinker and we couldn't even find the totem (Midwich hahah) and we couldn't even finish a single gen before all of us got killed. But Freddy didn't even need Undying we couldn't even deal with the first totem and we couldn't pop any gens because he was always there when he needed to be.
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Exactly. Undying was used for 1 Hex-Perk and thats it. And Hex-Perks are not meant to stay up all game, if the Devs would want to have it like that, they would remove the Hex-Part.
I had games where I cleansed 4 Hex-Totems and still Ruin was up, because on some Maps, the Totem Spots are really good. IMO Undying came too late, if it would have been around before where most Maps (aside from The Game) had really bad Totem Spots, it would have been more healthy and could have gotten nerfed once there were more Maps with good Totem Spots.
And especially in Soloqueue (or 2 man SWF), you cannot really afford to run around and only do Totems, because there might be other players who do the same, the regular gameplay is going on (Chases, Unhooks, etc.) AND there will always be the occasional people who dont do anything.
I am looking forward to see Undying with more Hex-Perks.
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I'm having a different conversation with some1 else. It doesn't have anything to do with what u guys are talking about here.
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In solo q you have 2 options. Force the chase or rush gens. With how bad red ranks and matchmaking is you need to be using your time very efficiently. If your not doing either of these your going to lose the game because of terrible teammates. Adding to this the constant search for hex totems it's just too much for solo q.
The totem spawns have gotten a lot better as the new maps + reworks have been happening. The only terrible map left (Disturbed Ward) is now getting changed so Undying being fixed is perfect now. As soon as Coldwind is fixed then we should have good totems spots on basically every map.
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Yep exactly. That's a great thing if the match is dependant on skill of the killer and the survivors. There was once upon a time before undying was released and ruin was never run with it. Ruin by itself can provide huge value for one perk slot.
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Its just a dumb assumption to say survivors are bad. there are as much bad survivors as killers. what youre saying is that killer gameplay attracts the smart people and survivor the dumb people, it doesnt make any sense to make such a claim. killrate for every killer was/is 50%+. thats means that the dumb killers are also able to kill the dumb survivors which is far from balanced (litterly not a single killer out of the 20+ has an average killerate below 2)
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You're really going to use a single example to prove your point?
There are plenty of matches where ruin+undying can stay up and the match be won by survivors. And there are matches where you absolutely need to get Ruin ASAP to have even a fighting chance- and you still get sacrificed. Some killers are bad at using Ruin, and some killers are good with it. In my opinion, the combo of Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer plays half of the game for you as killer, especially if you are playing a high mobility killer (Freddy, Spirit, Blight, etc)
Ruin+Undying is just too powerful for solo queue right now. I myself am not entirely happy with the change (it feels like too much?) but I acknowledge that it 100% NEEDED to change. Even in SWF with good communication it can be complete pub stomp. Now imagine that being pushed on people playing without a single ounce of communication.
Now, I am NOT looking forward to the Undying/Devour Hope games that will be a fad build shortly from now on LMAOOO
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56% kill rate when including all ranks is basically balanced. Add in the fact that there's a 68% kill rate when only looking at Red ranks and it plummets to a 56% kill rate when looking at all ranks could equally mean that the dumb killers are losing pretty badly to pull the kill rates down.
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