How to fix Deathslinger
First of all, what is wrong about him?
The problem with Deathslinger is that there is no counterplay, there is no time at all to react to his power, all you can do is guess and hope that he miss the shot. He's not an overpowered killer since it is a 4v1 game and holding W far away from him makes him take a long time to catch up, giving your teammates time to do gens, but once on a chase, there's literally nothing a survivor can do, he makes looping almost impossible, this makes it so the killer is not OP but EXTREMELY unfun to go against.
Suggestions i've seen around and why they wouldn't work:
"All he needs is a punishment for canceling their aim"
This is not true since it's posssible to quickscope and you don't need to aim to make people start trying to avoid it because of the mere fact that you could quickscope them at any point so aiming for long is literally useless.
"Give him a wind up time and a punishment for aiming and not shooting"
This wouldn't work because of the fact that the ONLY thing deathslinger has over huntress is the fact that he has no wind up time and is not punished for not shooting after aiming, giving him a wind up time and punishment after canceling the aim together with the fact that he only has one shot and a limited range would make him so much worse than huntress that it would be useless, if that were a thing there would have to be some sort of buff along with this nerf to make him viable.
So... How would I make him fun to go against without ruining him?
The answer is to make him 4.6 m/s, so in worst case scenario he's a 4.6 killer that can loop normally and have a normal map pressure, just like hillbilly/bubba in tiles that they can't use their power, BUT, to make up for the fact that he's now normal speed, he should have a 2.5 seconds wind up time and a 1 sec punishment for canceling the aim, this makes it so survivors can now react to deathslinger's actions, and on deathslingers perspective he would have to commit to his actions instead of faking it all the time since he would be punished for it, making it so he would have to think about the best opportunity to use his power, the 2.5 seconds wind up time would also make it so his power is not viable in EVERY TILE in the game, which is completely fine since he would be 4.6m/s, just like Blight, Hillbilly, Bubba, etc can't use their powers in every tile. But this change would also make slinger really good for when a survivor is trasitioning from one loop to another or simply holding W.
With my suggestion deathslinger would still have a nice, useful power in loops and in trasitions, would have more map pressure and at the same time survivors would have more fun going against them since it opens up oportunity to counterplay.
Comments
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No, 2.5 seconds? that's slower than huntress and her attack at least guarantees damage on hit. It doesn't matter if he is 4.6 speed if he can't use his power and that is WAAAY too long especially when damage isn't guaranteed.
If the devs want to add a windup time it better not be any more than 0.5 seconds flat and for how tempting and easy his power is to use you shouldn't be punished for canceling it especially with a windup time, slowing him during aiming/windup? sure but that's it and that's if he gets a movement speed buff.
The thing is he is balanced because of the 4v1 aspect, he can stay as oppressive as he is because he heavily lacks map pressure and snowball potential (get multiple injuries/downs quickly). This is the reason he doesn't need changes, you have to expect your team to do gens and just out pressure him, he isn't going to successfully snowball or slug unless you let him so he has no way of dealing with survivors being optimal gens unless he hard protects 3 or just wins chases imiddantly which is a sign that your team sucks at versing him not that he is just that strong in a chase use LOS objects.
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basically make him a worse huntress?
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Like at that rate literally just play huntress, she is better than him anyway rn since she can snowball easily with her power without even slowing down and can down survivors just as fast if not faster with a hatchet followed up with a basic attack.
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That literally doesn't fixes him, it's what I said, his problem IS NOT HOW STRONG HE IS, his problem is how UNFUN he is to go against, it doesn't matter how strong or weak he is if people are gonna have a bad time going against them, also 0.5 seconds for a RANGED power on a 4.6 killer would be EXTREMELY OP and would still have no room for outplay, with 2.5 wind up time his power would still be useful in some tiles, just not in EVERY SINGLE ONE, which is exactly my point, no killer in the game should have a power that is useful in EVERY TILE, and playing a loop normally with a 4.6 M/S is not that bad.
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What do you mean by wind up time? Also, assuming that I understand what a wind up time would work on death slinger, a 0.5s wind up time with a 4.6m/s would actually be a nerf for his power. In 0.5s the deathslinger losses 2m of distance from the survivor. That's 10s of distance gained from the 0.2m/s increase.
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a "worse huntress" that has better chase, better map pressure, doesn't run out of bullets and have to take their time reloading in a locker far away, this is not a worse huntress, is a killer as viable as huntress, each with their own advantages
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I take balance over fun sorry.
like you can use unfun to argue to change Hag, spirit, leatherface, good nurses, basically any killer that is considered unfun to play against.
The thing is in a pvp game your fun usually comes at a another players expense and that is very much the case for dbd and unless a killer is both unfun to play as and against they don't need changes simply due to how enjoyable they are to play/verse unless it is a balance issue and deathslinger is balanced because of his two major weaknesses.
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he would have a better map pressure then huntress, wouldn't need to go out of his way to reload on lockers, would have an overall better chase in all tiles, so he would still has some advantages over huntress, just like huntress still has some advantages over him, as it should be, one shouldn't be just the better version of the other.
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he would still be balanced, with the change I suggested, he would still have a nice power, he would still be better than wraith, better than pig, better than legion, than clown, than myers, than PH AND would be more fun to go against.
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doesn't matter if he can't use his power and with a windup time above 0.5 seconds at a majority of loops he would only be able to shoot at long ones and at the pallet.
just being 4.6 doesn't mean anything if your power can't help you enough and his wont.
Also again people will find things unfun to go against especially in pvp games, unless it is both unfun to go against and frustrating/unfun to play as it doesn't need to be changed. there are other killers widely considered to be just unfun as deathslinger but because deathslinger is ranged/strong in a chase its a problem? dispite him being extremely unviable depending on map and the survivors you face.
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Wind up time I just mean how long it takes for him to be able to shoot once he aims downsight
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Yeah... 2.5s windup time would kill deathslinger. In 2.5s the survivor will have moved 10m. Death slinger's range is 18m. U could just hold w to run away. I don't know what loops you're talking about where he could even use his power, plus the 1 second cancellation means you just told every death slinger to not use their power.
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there is a difference when something is unfun because it's just unfun (like people camping in cod games) and being unfun because there is NO COUNTERPLAY, also, 2.5 wind up time while still being able to move at 4.6 secs would still make it possible to use his power on shack, on L T walls, on cars and short loops, etc, there would still be MANY loops that would be possible to use his power
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he doesn't become a statue while aiming, he still moves faster than the survivor, what do you mean
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He is a power chase based killer, you can't nerf that heavily and put a bandaid on him by giving him movement speed and say that is a good change. it is a straight up heavy nerf because 4.6 is considered a bare minimum to be able to be able to chase survivors and that's still with your power. 4.2 and under speed killers have strong chase powers deathslinger is the killer that goes HARDEST in that direction by giving up anything not related to downing a single survivor quickly, and you want a power designed to do that to be restricted.
This might sound good in your head but what this would mean for him is being looped like every other killer and only at super long loops or in the open would he have a chance not a guarantee to damage that survivor. there would literally be no reason to play him over huntress with your changes.
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better chase? with wind up time more than huntress? but oh wait, i can reach a generator 2 seconds faster!
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2.5 seconds is more than enough to a small loop and get to the pallet, also this would still make people mad since he can just pre aim and hit you before they make it when they loop long loops.
there isn't a way to make players who hate him happy, like i said it's a pvp game your fun comes at the cost of others.
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I assumed the wind up time means he isn't moving during that time or heavily slowed like Huntress.
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You can still walk while aiming tho, you know that right? and 4.6 makes it so much faster to get to survivors running away, it's not just about getting from point A to point B
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yes, 2.5 seconds is enough to get to the pallet in a small loop but that's why he would still be able to walk at 4.6 m/s or at LEAST 4.4 while aiming, and if he just pre aims on pallets the survivor could just react to it and pretend to go for the pallet and keep looping or just try making he miss since you know he's aiming and will be punished if he cancels the aim, making it so he will most likely shoot, and if he doesn't shoot, deathsling still can catch up to the survivor and m1 them if they cancel at the right time. Also, if the deathslinger aims and miss the shot survivors will fill good for reacting right to their power and avoid getting hitted, which is completely slingers fault for missing and he's being punished for that
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unless a killer has a traveral ability it isn't about speed it's about how effective they are at downing survivors.
a 0.4 meter difference in speed just makes him as loopable as all the other killers, if you have to hold you power for 2.5 seconds you should just play huntress since in that time while she is slowed her hatchet is as fast or maybe faster than deathsingers projectile and because deathslinger can't do anything with pallets and shouldn't huntress is the better pick since she can hit survivors over them.
movement speed doesn't matter unless it is incredibly good like blights, just look at clowns new bottles he is moving faster AND slowing survivors and that still doesn't make his speed bottles good. i feel like this is what you are missing to see why this isn't a good change.
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then play PH he is better, does the same thing but better, and his ranged attack activates faster and deals damage.
deathslinger's ranged ability is good due to it's activation speed, he has slinger in his name like cmon.
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Than AGAIN, he would STILL be better than PH due to the fact that he would be faster have a longer range, about the huntress, he would still have his advantages over her like not having to reload, not being heavily penalized while aiming and also moving faster, deathslinger would still be better than pyramid head, would still have its advantages over huntress, would still be balanced, would be MORE FUN to go against, you literally sound like a deathslinger main that doesn't want them to change your main in any way
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yeah..................................................... no he won't, are you new to this game? Im pretty sure you are if you don't see why he would be worse then huntress and PH.
PH is still faster in rites than a survivor, is better at loops because DS can't get hits with the pallet down and players will just throw it early against him. range doesn't matter when the hit isn't guaranteed and players at far ranges have a good chance of dodging with correct predictions.
Also again no he would be a discount huntress BECAUSE HE WILL SUCK AT LOOPS huntress and DS are exactly the same when landing hits with their power if deathslinger doesn't instantly use his power and reloading as huntress has never been a concern for good huntresses.
SPEED DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S AT THE COST OF THE POWER. also fyi i don't play him often since im on console, i prefer demo, hag, and recently plague. sure i have DS as p3 but i also have every killer p3, I know what im talking about do you?
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Deathslinger is fine.
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Sure he would still be good, but that would be such a boring way to change his power and would remove almost all of his identity. His ADS time is fine as long as you change the other mechanics around it. It's what makes him unique and fun to play, I love the insta-ADS of his gun and I wouldn't want that taken away from him. I still think my suggestion is the best:
Give him a TF2 Sniper/Widowmaker mechanic: The longer you aim down the sights, the faster and farther the spear will travel. Could take between 1 and 2 seconds to fully charge and at that point he can shoot at the full 18m at the full 40 m/s speed, but if you just quickscope it would go maybe 4 or 5 metres at 25 m/s. Then you can maybe buff his movement speed whilst aiming a little bit (From 75% to around 80% by default, add-ons to increase movement speed can remain unchanged so you could still get an extra 15% movement speed.)
My suggestion would give him some more strategy at longer ranges, but you could still get fast hits at short ranges and still be rewarded for quickscoping over autohaven or swamp loops if the survivor hugs the loop for example. And you would still have the zoning potential.
Also they could probably get rid of the penalty on the "decrease TR while ADSing" add-ons too. Would make a stealth build with him viable, sniping people off gens with a tiny TR as you approach while aiming down the sights. Could be a really cool build.
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His power is already useless on many tiles. I can even say that many pallets are safe pallets against Deathslinger.
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that's if they make it to the pallet but yeah once the pallet is dropped he can't do anything on most loops in the game, that is a major reason as to why this idea is so bad survivors can still just drop the pallet and it would be even more easier to do so.
that is why i said huntress and PH would simply be better choices as they both deal damage with their power over objects. in fact there wouldn't be a reason to pick deathslinger over huntress since she can use her power more, it deals damage, and it barely slows her down unlike deathslinger who is massively slowed when missing and reloading and he needs to reel in survivors to hit them. Even if deathslinger was 4.6 huntress would still be miles better simply because her power is better, movement speed is only considered if it is power based being 4.6 doesn't make killers good it's their power.
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As long as Deathslinger's gun has a range limit, any sort of long wind up time doesn't make sense to add.
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Deathslinger is fine, adapt to his chase style. Drop pallets earlier and get distance instead of staying at areas.
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2.5 seconds is a bit too slow. Consider changing this to 1.5 or even one second.
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Deathslingers fine, I'd rather go against a god like deathslinger than a god like huntress. She has much more potential than deathslinger.
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