General Discussions
General Discussions
Why problem loops, like azarov's bus of fun have not been changed with map reworks?
If window spawns in the middle, between two buses, this loop is just unmindgamable semi-infinite. Why didn't they change it? There is no even breakable walls here
Also seems like next reworked maps are not solving strong loops problem at all. Asylum can still spawn strong loop, (they actually made one of the windows even stronger) As well as Chapel's 3 window spawn
Comments
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I have no idea. Loops like that are basically nurse+spirit only loops. Even with the pallet down it is a ridiculous structure.
It seems that their map spawning / pallet weighting system is really, really off. Sometimes I'll get a map spawn that is OK, but other times I'll get a spawn of a map where it is entirely safe loops. It really feels like at times I am at the mercy of map RNG because there are enough safe loops at any part of the map that I cannot complete a chase in a timely manner no matter what I do.
There is literally no killer /survivor interaction at non-mindgameable safe loops, just looping until the pallet drops and kicking it. Trying to mindgame it only wastes more.of the killer's time. I don't know why having so many of them is healthy for the game in any way.
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Well I guess they just expect people to be running bamboozle on killers that can't just go through the walls
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Hmm good question. I'm surprised God Bus is still around. Maybe because there are 2 different bus spawns, 1 of which isn't very good, so they figure it's fine? Not sure, but God Bus is definitely one of the strongest structures in the game at the moment.
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Devs can't design maps.
Badham got their biggest map rework of all time, and it's still a trash map. One of the worst, even.
I feel like when they make a good map it's purely by accident.
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Yeah the map reworks graphical wise are nice and all, but when they announced it I kind of assumed they would be getting more of a balance pass than they have. There have been some tweaks but for most of them the loops are still pretty busted and chained together.
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And the devs wonder why they get so much flak.
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Trapper and Hag can take care of these loops too. Also Bamboozle.
A baseless observation, considering the devs have fixed many god loops.
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Because the devs are updating the maps graphically, not balance-wise. Because better graphics are of utmost importance.
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You have to give survivors something to work with, if everything is an unsafe pallet loop then chases last 10 seconds.
I know you probably don't see a problem with that, but if survivors have nothing to work with from junction to junction then there's no point in playing the chase game. Everyone runs sprint burst and guns it to the other side of the map at that point.
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I loooove my Bamboozle.
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Wanting mindgameable loops so each side has a chance of winning it and wanting them to be unsafe pallets are two different things. We want mindgameable loops, not unsafe pallets.
Also since you mentioned chases under 10 seconds, you realize that chases longer than 15 seconds is losing you the game as killer right? How long you want the chases to last is unviable against good survivors, you literally do not have that much time with how fast gens go.
Generally speaking, you have to be getting a hit or a pallet in 15 seconds or less if you want a chance at winning.
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I was being hyperbolic, to specifically bait out people like you who can't help but point out this crap.
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RNG will be the death of this game
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You're being disingenuous and backpedaling. We both know you weren't being hyperbolic.
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When I see loops like that, I just walk away. You can't win the game just running around the bus. I'll go kill their friends.
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Play as nurse spirit and move on
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What an assumption to make. Your argument is no stronger than theirs.
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Because... survivors are allowed to have a couple of things left that aren't an easy down for the killer. MOST players are not great loopers (read: most won't take advantage of even easy to run fun bus) and so in a huge number of games... fun bus spawning on the map won't even be an issue. Survivors also can't just hang out by the good loops the entire game. Also, fun bus is one of two variations... and when it does spawn it, it ALMOST makes up for the Autohaven maps where 5 of of 7 gens are in dead zones!
But it looks like a lot of killer mains are feeling entitled to having EVERY single good loop in the game taken down several notches since some of the recent map changes within the last year. I just don't agree with the idea that every single survivor sided loop needs to be heavily nerfed.
Not every chase has to be completed- if you don't have the time for a fun bus chase, you can drop it. And if you do? The window DOES block off, so it cannot be an infinite. Honestly, if anything, fun bus should be good at teaching killers when to drop a chase.
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There isn't an assumption being made. Grammar and sentence structure can illustrate a hyperbolic tone. His was not.
If you want to use the word lying instead of hyperbolic or that he simply misused his phrasing or terminology then I could see that as a fair point to make.
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Magic School Bus.
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A strong loop does not equal an infinite loop. I really wish people would using terms that don't exist in DBD 2021. Go youtube what an old school infinite looked like (a true infinite, being no way to catch a survivor, ever). If you don't know what loops you can't mind game, or can't win, or are strong, and you choose to waste time in that area, it's on you to improve.
We already have updated maps that spawn 4 gens in a quarter of the map, 3 gens dispersed elsewhere, huge dead zones, etc. But a safe loop, god forbid, gotta get rid of those too.
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Bus is balanced IMO, there is a horrible version of it for survivors. So at this point blame it on RNG.
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so maybe it's better to make 1 version less strong and second less horrible? So bus is always fair and fun to run
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In a perfect world that is how it would work. Which is another reason I despise breakable walls. They either screw the survivor or the killer, instead of creating a dynamic in which both parties are engaged and invested while getting an experience.
There are too many things where the balance solely falls on RNG.
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Why would I literally mean 10 seconds? That's an absurd statement to make. Admit you took the bait and move on with your life, dude. It's okay to realize you nitpick on the details way too much, recognize it and fight the urge to correct someone on the dumbest details, unless the details are the topic.
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I never said you literally meant 10 seconds. It was taken as a point.
You realized after you made a statement that it wasn't accurate. You don't need to be combative, you're allowed to make mistakes, it's how we learn.
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Yes I mean unsafe loops also exist, like you said. I think one or two safe loops--especially when bus isn't a guaranteed safe loop every time, is fine, compared to the 3-4 guaranteed unsafe pallets in every map. Both have their purpose, and the Killer can allow generators to be completed in those areas to create dead zones, know that a survivor is pretty much worthless over there, and be able to capitalize on it and go somewhere else.
Sometimes you want to be able to mindgame each other, sometimes you just get lucky with positioning. It's kind of the game, the variety is there to make people think on the fly. The old godloops were a problem, for sure, but the game is so balanced now, arguments like these seem to want to swing it too far the other way.
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So when I said "10 seconds" and was being hyperbolic, and you said I'm not being hyperbolic, in what world does that not mean you literally thought I meant "10 seconds?"
I feel like there's a lesson in nitpicking details here that isn't being learned.
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Fun Bus got ''nerfed'' lol now the window doesn't spawn in the middle, more like in the left side of the bus, making it an easy to mindgame. Since the angle is difficult to get a fast vault and the killer could just fake a double back or commit to it
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Your general sentiment was not hyperbolic. 10 seconds was what was not literal.
IE you're misunderstanding which part of your statement I was saying was and was not hyperbolic. It is not all or nothing.
You view this as a nitpicking lesson when in reality it's an ego and unwillingness to admit when one was wrong lesson not being learned.
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Guys, the graphical overhaul doesn't include any loop balancing: it's a matter of textures and aesthetics.
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Unpopular opinion here but I think every map should have 1 or 2 really powerful loops like the Fun Bus that skilled survivors can use to waste the killer's time in a moment of crisis. And I'm saying this as a rank 1 killer main. Similarly, every map should have a couple garbage pallets where skilled killers can easily catch potato players.
The problem is that certain maps (Hi Haddonfield!) have way too many strong loops. I hear the devs are going to start weighting maps for balance so that the game is less RNG based. This is great, but really should have been implemented 4.5 years ago. It feels like every time I play killer every high wall structure is a jungle gym and every time I play survivor every high wall structure is a TL wall.
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