The Amanda's Letter add-on for The Pig has been Kill Switched due to an issue with incorrect RBT count.
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Camping is too strong against bad players
Most of us know how to counter camping. Just do gens. But bad survivors dont know that. And bc they dont know that bad killer think camping is a good strategy and do it. Then they learn nothing and get demolished.
So is it possible to teach survivor to do gens?
Show gen auras when someone gets camped? Or a tutorial for camping?
Matchmaking is worse at the moment. And it hurts as a hag main when i see a rank 10 hag who chases without placing one trap. Hooks someone and uses 10 traps and her body to camp him. And gets a second down with noed and repeats camping. I needed to do 3 gens otherwise the hag would have gotten 4 kills with this playstyle.
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I wouldn't mind if the killer aura reveal part of kindred was basekit. It wouldn't require any balance changes like there would be if the survivor aura part was included because people already can signal that a killer is camping by flapping around on the hook, having it reveal within some fixed unalterable meters doesn't change much.
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It's bad matchmaking forcing killers to camp the hook. If the killer isn't having fun getting run all over the maps every game then what do you expect them to do?
I had a game earlier where I hooked my first survivor and 3 gens popped. Do you really think I'm going to go away from my only kill? No chance, I'm going to face camp you until dead. I face camped and tunnel my only kill. Well, I think I killed 1 more in the end game.
I'm a red ranked killer, yeah. So why do I get to go up against 4 man SWF lobby when I use my legion? I've a level 15 legion with basic perks. Same goes for Billy at 15, Huntress at 19, Doctor at 24, Pig at 15, Clown at 26, Spirit at 15, Legion at 15, Oni at 15, Slinger at 15, PH at 19. When I use these killers, do you think it's fair for me to go in with red ranked survivors?
It isn't about face camping, it's about how many matches that player has had before that game. Maybe that player had 5 matches against really good players and got 0 killa. Maybe in your lobby your team lopped him for ages.
The game isn't really balanced at all and is putting us killers in with really good teams.
Post edited by AnnoyedAtTheGame on3 -
Tutorials would probably be my first bet. We have some extremely basic ones that teach the really barebones basics, so I don't see why you couldn't have some tutorials to demonstrate some elements of basic theory for playing. For this specific topic:
For Survivors, a tutorial about what to do if you are being camped or one of your teammates is being camped. This could cover:
- Hook gymnastics, how to do it, what it means
- When you should designate yourself as the hook rescuer and when you should ignore it to focus on generators (there's rarely much point to multiple survivors going for a hook save)
- The fact that Survivors will last 2 minutes on a hook if they are left there, a lot of time to work on Generators
- How saving everyone is noble, but that nobody will survive if objectives aren't focused on and sometimes a death or two is unpreventable
For Killers, a tutorial on what your strategy should be after hooking a Survivor (and why camping them is a bad plan). That could cover:
- How and why you need to keep pressure on Generators, not necessarily hooks
- Why and when it's a good idea to defend hooks
- The fact that Survivors will actually die faster from being rescued then re-hooked, rather than waiting out hook timers
- The concept of applying "pressure" to the Survivor team and ensuring as few of them as possible are working on objectives- Don't spend too much time trying to secure one kill
- That The Entity much prefers an entire team living but terrorised, over a team where one guy was sacrificed but the other three never saw you
All about communication IMO. Some people are always gonna camp, but I think one can lower the amount of total campers by educating Survivors on how to counter it, and educating Killers on how its a playstyle that doesn't have much merit if they want to improve their own skills. (because, ultimately, camping in Dead by Daylight IS an intuitive way to play the game)
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Anything's too strong against bad players.
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don't worry, after a couple months of mmr if you get a bad killer you'll know it's because you're abad player since decent killers won't get to enjoy bad survivors any more.
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If you deny all mistakes you removed all paths to success.
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I just wish newer survivors could have a news letter sent out so they know to either wave their arms on the hook to let others know they're being camped, or if someone's doing that they're being camped so just do gens.
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Isnt everything too strong against bad/new players? They dont know the ins and outs of the game like experienced players do so they're gonna struggle but in time they will learn "ok it's better to do a gen then go for the guy on hook cuz hes being camped". Its just part of the learning curve
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Bad survivors should not be rewarded with free help to the detriment of the killer. Punishing the killer for doing well regardless of tactic is just granting an advantage to players for incompetence. New Killers get stomped by seasoned survivors and swf, but I don't see devs making adjustments for them.
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I know ppl hate me whenever I say this. But I think camping is totally fine.
If that's what the killer wants to do. So be it.
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lmao I wave my arms when the killer leaves just to stand out in the crowd
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Mem rank Purple survivor, vs camp/tunnel Huntress
1Gen done: 1st survivor down, she didnt exactly face camp, but always 10m around the hook. After 15sec, I realized it was a camp (with Kindred) so I do Gen, other 2 survivors keep run around find a chance to hook. But when the 1st survivor reach to second hook, they do Gen.
2.5 Gen done: 1st survivor dead, 2nd survivor on hook. 3rd survivor unhook the 2nd but Huntress tunneling the 2nd. I just ignore and just do Gen.
4 Gen done: 2nd survivor dead (thanks to both of 1st & 2nd stay still on their second hook). I & 3rd survivor rush the last Gen, but right after I finished, I got caught by Noed
Huntress camped me. I stay on hook before the 3rd survivor open the Gate then I suicide on hook
Post chat: Huntress: ezz
In the game, I was on Gen right next to the chase, she even walked pass me, only focus to tunnel.
I was the only Purple, Killer was 16, the other were 13-16
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😂😂
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The Killer isn't doing well by camping a Survivor, they are benefiting from incompetence by doing absolutely NOTHING.
Bloodlust is even worse.
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Most of the time there are not 4 good players. Instead of chasing someone for 3 gens, the killer should learn to switch targets and to find the weak link. In my example the hag should have used traps in a chase. There is a lot to learn. So you need to improve instead of giving up (camping). When i started i had many matches like that, too. But i improved and now i win most of the time.
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Im not sure. Are there even enough players on the killerside for that?
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Camping doesnt help kiler in the long run. It would be better for a killer, when they wouldnt rely on camping. You need to learn the game to have a chance against good survivor. And you dont learn most of the game when you camp.
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Ppl also need to learn to do gens. I'd rather solo queue survivors learn to do gens then face camping killers learning to git gud. Somehow both are getting into red rank games but I run into face camping killers far less than ppl who are allergic to gens. It's gotten to the point where I've just accepted it and joke about it everytime some1 posts about gen allergies in the forums.
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This isn't even remotely true in my experience. Killers camp when they know the team they're up against will feed them kills. I almost never see a killer camp when they're getting mulched, if they do when the 3rd gen since hte hook pops they panic and leave.
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Yh but thats the point which makes camping strong. So you could solve both when you teach survivor to do gens. You would need to buff some killer bc when all survivor do gens, the game is over really fast.
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But MMR is suppose to do this. If your better than the killer your level goes up which your chances of a better killer goes up.
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If the game wasn't unbalanced. Why is there a survivor who is able to run a killer for 3 gens in the first place? Why is that survivor in with that killer?
if we're getting matchmaking like that. We are going to face camp.
As I write this. I've lobby dodged about 5+ lobbies as the killer because as all it's giving me is unbalanced lobbies. P3 survivors. Flashlights, Tool boxes, keys, bought clothes, SWF lobbies. I know for a fact that's going to be an unbalanced match where I'm probably going to have to face camp the hook. I really don't have the time for a gen rushing, t bagging, flashlight swf lobbies. It's easier not to ready up.
I was about to ready up and a flash light comes on a survivor, lobby dodged again.
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I said search for the weak link. Dont get me wrong, when there is no weak link then you gonna lose with most of the killer. But that happens almost never. Bc most survivor are not good. Thats the reason why the killrates are so high. But that does mean that when you are a good killer you can beat most survivor, too. So you can get better, its far from impossible to beat 90% of red ranks.
I heard its different when you play pc without crossplay. But nothing is stopping you from enabling crossplay.
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It's actually more fun to face camp than to run around and get a kill.
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When it is fun for you, then do it. But when you mean, that its only more fun then to run around, and both things are not much fun, then you should stop playing the game.
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So basically you're saying to tunnel the weakest link in that game and make them have a terrible game as well? So now there is 2 of us in that lobby having terrible games. Wow! Great advice.
I'm going to put this simply.
Enable cross play - Bad matches because PC can do amazing stuff compared to a console user.
Disable cross play - bad matches because ps is just full of swf lobbies.
If I was on the PC right now and not a PlayStation, I'd be 10 x better than what I'm right now. I didn't buy a PS5 because I don't think the console is good enough for what I want to play.
Yes, I could have bought one. I can even afford a gaming PC right now, there just isn't any GPU's out there at RRP.
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Oh you are on Ps4, too. I play ps4 over 2 years at red ranks (killer and survivor) and mostly without crossplay as killer bc i have problems with 360. I have a five year old standard ps4, so i certainly play with the worst hardware.
And i play all killer (bad nurse and blight) and win most of the time (atleast 80% winrate, probably higher).
Most of the time there are atleast 3 weak links for me, so i dont need to tunnel. And when its really a good team without holding back, i dont need to hold back either.
But i can mostly dominate anyway bc the survivor are bad. And when survivor lose they are less toxic. I had a hard time at the start and disabled messages. When i got better, most stopped being toxic. But when i play nurse, suddenly most of them are toxic again.
So i put it simple, you can get better.
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I mean how stupid is these survivors? They should fall for it the first time, then understand that doing gens is a good idea to get out.
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Yeah I'm on PS4 so it's so hard to get anything done. It's always an uphill battle in what we do on this game.
To get better at this game doesn't mean us killer who have limited game play need to be put in with survivors with 3,000 hours gameplay. It's a massive gap that the devs need to hurry up and deal with. I've resorted to deranking as killer now to to get a good game. I've managed to derank to 5 now.
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Not saying camping is a great tactic as it is unproductive for most of a match, but there are instances where the killer is left securing a kill. It's up to the survivor to avoid the 1 hook scenario and teammates to work around a killer for the save. First thing every survivor should learn is killers are unpredictable and your 3 hooks aren't mandatory, respect the killer's presence and avoid unpleasant outcomes.
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in a game like this, either make it 4v4 or finally start buffing instea dof nerfing the killer if they're gonna do that, otherwise alot of people are gonna hate the mmr in the end when all of the matches on the lone side become nothing but sweat and not even the reasonable hope of some potatoes thrown at them here and there. I guarantee it'll wear some out to the point they won't come back eventually.
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The title of the Thread covers it all; the problem is bad PLAYERS, not the tactic. Thus the solution, the only workable one, is for them to get better. :)
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Player's needing to get better doesn't mean that that is the end of the topic, because the follow-up question to saying that a player is bad is asking "Why are they bad?" @Lexilogo has the right idea, this issue would be solved by a more robust tutorial system to start players off. Even a video series of mp4's in the tutorial menu would be an improvement over letting people figure it out on their own or through word of mouth.
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In fairness, I don't think a robust tutorial would do much because tutorials are about how to do mechanical things. The kinds of behaviors required to deal with the MANY different types of Campers are beyond the scope of such a thing. Only time and experience counts there. In short, tutorials can tell you how to do this or thank with a direct cause and effect. Advice on tactics and strategy is straying into the realm of agency and style. Do you see where I'm going with this? There is no one right answer; there are literally hundreds.
Nobody even agrees on the definition of a camper. What kind do you mean? Will a new Player understand the nuance of the different types? And in fairness, there are 100s (if not 1000s by now) of videos on how to play this game on Youtube. If someone is interested in getting a robust education, they can find it very quickly. The search engine on Youtube is very user friendly.
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Of course camping has its uses. But this is about straight up camping someone to the death from the beginning. A decision which should result in losing a lot of gens. But against bad players it results in an easy win. Thats bad bc the killer has no need to learn the game and can do nothing against players, who know how to counter camping.
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Camping is too strong in general, because killers can camp like crazy and still pip, etc.
Even on a team that diligently does gens while someone is getting facecamped by an Insidious Cannibal or whatever, that player is still gonna die before you get all the gens done, and the killer is going to move on to the next player. Maybe 1-2 survivors wind up getting out at the complete expense of everyone else, but that's a pretty ruinous experience for a large percentage of the players in the match. That's a high cost to pay -- everyone ends up frustrated at the end (I certainly do... whether I'm one of the camped ones or not), and the killer will probably think "well I pipped lol" like half the time anyway. And the other half doesn't care, and just wanted to intentionally play in a way that made everyone angry, which to me really ought to be a punishable offense in some way. It is the very definition of "unsportsmanlike conduct," yet they toss out any reports about this behavior pattern.
It's a garbage dynamic that is a net negative experience for most of the people who were in that match, even when survivors are applying the optimal "just do gens" 'solution.'
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I have not tested it but i dont think you pip, atleast at red rank, with camping.
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Seems like they are at least learning the chase and down portion of killers. It's understandable that some players don't like walking away to Grant a risk free save. Maybe they are counting on brave teammates to capitalize on or they'd rather take survivors out one by one. It gives a majority of survivors a chance to learn that avoiding the killer is vital, practice the most important chase, learn without perks that make mistakes acceptable, and if the team does gens even camping can't guarantee a kill. Camping is not an issue once survivors understand how time is in there favor, granted they do have to learn it. Being first downed is a survivor failure just as much a killer's success.
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The math on camping, i.e. the time resources show that if you get a Face Camper, and the others just do Generators that statistically three of them should escape. The problem with the Cannibal isn't camping but rather that he is too fast. :) They slow him down when he throws his tantrum, but he is a 115% the rest of the time, and isn't going to throw that tantrum until he is already on top of you which makes the offset the created entirely useless. I've always thought he should be a 110% Killer normally. Thus, Billy is the fast chainsaw maniac but has rough steering, and Leatherface is the slightly slower chainsaw maniac with great control.
Of course all that is a tangent. Camping is just a tactic and some Killers are better at it than others. Leatherface is good at it because the Tantrum is so effective; that's it.
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I got face camp to death by a nurse before. My teammates kept getting grab when they tried to unhook me. They didn't know to fake it so they could unhook me after they got hit. Whenever she grabbed them she just dropped them there. She wanted to make sure nobody could get me off the hook.
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That would be true, but i dont think they really learn to chase. They get the down bc the survivor is bad. Sometimes they need half the game for it. I wrote this post bc of a match. In this match a rank 10 hag needed 2-3 minutes to down a rank 16 bc she refused to use traps. It wasnt even a strong map for survivor. And the second down was bc the yellow rank claudette tried to open an exit gate in a deadzone against noed.
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The cannibal is not too fast. He would be a joke when he had 110% movement speed. You need to use pallets and windows. He will destroy pallets fast, but you should have enough pallets and windows.
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Sure, but that would take pretty perfect survivor efficiency to pull off in the space of one full hook camp, and it assumes that the other survivors know it's a camper, don't dally, and are very quick to assess the situation and consider what they should do. There are a lot of variables, and different killers can obviously leverage this tactic more than others. Throw Corrupt Intervention or something into the mix with an effective killer and an intentional off-the-bat facecamping strategy, and "just do gens" is not a sure thing for 3 survivors.
(And I know someone up above said that red rank killers probably don't pip for playing this way, and I'm sure they don't, but that also only accounts for a minority of the player base.)
EDIT: I also want to reiterate my point about this kind of behavior creating a net negative experience for the majority of the players in the match, whether they were camping victims or not. I know I'm only speaking for myself, but it's very frustrating to deal with this no matter what my role in the situation is. On paper, this is not supposed to be an effective mode of play (since you lose points for doing it and are theoretically surrendering map pressure), but there's nothing to strongly discourage it, even though it is obviously a massively negative experience that can be forced on players with almost no effort and (in many cases) little to no downside.
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