Does anybody think the DS changes are unfair?
If so, how? Please explain. I think the proposed changes are very fair and tame, since they keep the core of the perk intact but lessen the abusable aspects of it which caused a lot of frustration among players.
Comments
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No, I think it is completely fair. They might of gave it the undying treatment, but that doesn't mean it is unfair.
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In no way or form could these changes possibly be labeled as "unfair".
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I think the DS changes are great but I also think that tunneling fundamentally needs to be looked at by the devs and that you shouldn't have to bring an insurance perk to prevent being removed from the game quickly in the first place.
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Take away the healing covenant and it would be fair.
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The only restriction I don't like is the unhooking one. It doesn't advance your objective so it shouldn't be there. the healing one has the same argument. but it's a bit different since it can be done anywhere unhooks are in the open most of the time.
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I think it is unfair in the point it only works once. So the killer can still "eat the ds" and keep tunneling. It should work twice and about the healing part, I don't know... I wanted it to be clear the it deactivates once you're healed. Not sure about this part
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I think the changes are fair but I worry about a few possible outcomes.
- Survivor gets unhooked and scurries off to the corner for 60 seconds instead of doing something useful
- Survivor gets unhooked and goes bully the killer for 60 seconds, making it an even more toxic perk
- Baiting the killer into taking the DS by hanging out near a gen being worked on to make the killer think it deactivated
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I can't even tap a gen otherwise it will deactivate it
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I assume the "healing" condition refers to the player with DS active doing the healing, as it would be really dumb if the person unhooking you healing you for 0.0003548 nanoseconds deactivated your DS. Which is why I assume that's not what it's about 😄
Beyond that, it's pretty much what I'd expect as something like this has without a doubt been the most popular suggestion from what I've seen. Personally happy they didn't include the "another survivor gets hooked" condition (so the deactivation conditions are all things the survivor in question have to actively do for them to happen) or try to tie anything to the easily exploitable chase detection system as well.
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The unhooking one is a big problem. Its damn frustrating when you have two downs (so you played well) and while you hook the second person the first ones get unhooked and runs straight to you with BT and DS and unhooks in your face.
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Rank 20 killers would fall for this. Otherwise its great
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It's an anti-tunnel perk, not a oh I have an easy stun for my free hook save.
The entire point of the change was to be rid of the non anti-tunnel uses of the perk. No player can deny they've not used DS in such ways from gen/sabo aggro to undeserving hook saves because your DS was still active at the time, punishing the killer for attempting "successful" hook defence.
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In all of those scenarios the survivors does nothing to get gen progress, they would just waste time, their only available DS and possibly a hook state. All of those outcomes are terrible for the survivors.
Also #2 is something that people already do and know how to deal with.
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I would much rather a survivor spend 60 seconds trying to bully me and risk getting themselves slugged than doing a gen in my face with DS.
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It's a anti tunnel perk. I would still want it to deactivate in a locker though. I'm happy with these changes.
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You could still get tunneled to a point where you'd potentially use a locker, so it's fine to keep the locker tech imo.
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Pretty fair but in my opinion they should remove the timer. Can't touch anything without it going down so why the timer? What if they get slugged? Remove the timer and I'll be truly happy.
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I have a few concerns about it. I made a post about it if you want to see.
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I don't agree with the healing part. Once you're fully healed yes. But until then no.
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Maybe but with inner strength you can fully heal and still have it or have head on and head on the killer or have both and be fully healed, head on the killer and if he downs you ds him as well. Either way I'm happy with the changes.
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yes
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if you have time to do that youre not getting tunneled
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I also a bit bothered by the healing thing.
1. Healing alone isn't clear. Does it deactivate if you heal yourself? Or when you heal a teammate? Or when somebody else heals you? Only if you reach full health? What about perks like second wind or inner strengt?
2. Healing is more a secondary objective and I think having DS disable when doing almost every secondary action will lead to two things: Some people will drop DS and some will just run into the killers face with DS active to make sure that they get use out of it, following the logic that wasting the killers time will also get objective done. And DS and UB will still work together, so will jumping in a locker, so I don't think encouraging people to look for a chase with ds active is a good idea.
I do agree that DS should disable when you unhook though because it's unfair if the killer gets hit by DS two times because someone farmed when they had DS active.
So in general I wouldn't say it unfair, DS will still be good but I'm not a fan of the healing condition.
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Speaking of Inner Strength, wouldn't that be considered a healing action? If so, DS would be disabled as soon as it heals you.
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That's one of the best changes.
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So long as killers are not nerfed in any way in the process, have at it. Same with camping.
Show me a way to solve these problems without negatively affecting killer or punishing them in any way and I would be all for it. I have yet to see a genuine solution that would work as such.
(Someone is going to post one that is like "Well if a killer is near hook for X amount of time..." and it's like you've already nerfed killer even when not actually camping; that shows you how hard actually solving that problem is)
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I like the change. DS was way too abusive to killers, repairing a gen in the killers face or doing other dumb stuff. Now it has more of a risk for it. You either waste 60 seconds doing nothing and give killers more time in the match or you do your objectives and lose your DS.
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I don’t think it’s unfair really. I’ve never had a huge problem with the perk but I think the changes are pretty reasonable, depending on how they work (e.g. the example someone else gave of someone else healing you deactivating the perk - if it doesn’t work this way then cool).
I never personally wanted it changed but I don’t think the changes are a huge issue. The perk is less abusable while remaining useful. I just wish the devs would make it so that there’s an Obsession every match now that DS is even easier to play around.
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I think they're fair, I just would like more clarity on the "healing" bit because I could see randoms screwing players over in solo q.
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It was necessary, there were far too many killers who - when the survivor was off the hook - would run towards that survivor who was going directly to stick themselves to a generator. What could these killers do? Nothing. They were forced to watch, and wait for the survivor to finish repairing the generator! (obsviously no...)
- If the killer doesn't tunnel, it's always the same.
- If the killer tunnel and the survivor makes the killer run, same thing.
- If the survivor decides to go to a locker, it doesn't change anything.
The survivor must choose between losing DS to be useful (actions he can perform since the killer is apparently doing something else, elsewhere), and being useless because you fear the killer will return. Healing actions need to be clarified, being healed or self-healing should not disable DS.
Why not. But I believe the killers will keep complaining about it forever, until it can camp and tunnel, without any constraints, with the unanimous congratulations of the whole community, and the pride of the devs.
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There's many changes they could make but any change to tunneling would arguably make the killer role weaker just because the killer's objective is to kill. And in some situations it's just arguably the better choice and the only thing that makes it not the better choice is the existence of DS -- a perk you bring to punish killers who play in an unfun, yet optimal way (because removing a survivor from the game is the best way to win) and is really one of your few defenses against it.
Proposed ideas for possible changes could be a weaker version of DS made basekit or hooking the survivor again in x amount of time doesn't skip to the next hook state.
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No it's not.
Also, as the devs have said, the game would become boring as hell. There would be NO threat to the game. You would always know who is going to be chased, what the killer is going to do....it would be so boring.
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If you can tap a gen you aren't being tunneled
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Like I said on the actual stream the DS change is good mostly, I'm just waiting for the eventual abuse of the change that I know people will find. it's the normal thing, someone finds a way to abuse a mechanic new or not and then everyone will start doing it
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has sense, if u tap a gen means you are not being tunneled and if u do it on killers face i dont see a problem if u had time to touch the gen u had time to run and not pressure the killer by making him lose progress on that gen.
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I am interpreting "Healing," as-written, to mean "Healing yourself or another survivor" (which is what it probably should say). I would not expect your DS to activate if another survivor heals you, because it is not an active action that you are taking, it is something passive that is being done to you.
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A one hand this purging the main problem of "weaponizing" It so survivors are no longer gonna go "HAHA, I got a minute where you cant touch me"..On the other hand..Everything turns It off...If so much turns It off that might be a problem.
However, people kept saying It was "Antitunnel protection" so they got what they paid for..If they just told the devs "30 secs is cool,just do that" they would have a halfed time but be able to do things...But,since they leaned so hard on the anti-tunneling narrative..It became a turn anti tunneling perk..Now,you have no one to blame but yourself If the killer downs you while unhooking someone.
It solves the problem with the perk. So ,It was a simple fix. I understand why people are upset. But, this was the trade-off for the minute of protection. You basically are taken out of the game for a whole minute. like a ghost.
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The idea of protection or advancement is neat with DS now.
I can feel strategy being used for this perk now instead of "Haha no touch 1 minute"
You actually have to consider the options. Either be a useless, but invincible survivor for 1 minute...
Or cut the time short to become useful.
It's really neat, and I genuinely can't wait for the change to come in because of how shockingly interesting a trade-off this perk is about to be made into.
Also, I believe the 'healing' part of it is referring to you healing someone else, not being healed.
Pretty sure they would have slapped a 'Broken' during the effect if they didn't want you to be healed by other people.
Well, we really can't say anything about what that part means until it's actually applied.
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While I do agree with most of the changes to stop certain survivors from abusing the perk I question some of the changes, the healing in particular. I play a decent amount of both roles but enjoy survivor more to play with my friends and one of my friends ALWAYS gets tunneled. He does nothing to deserve it either, he's respectful of the killer and often times dies because he tries to help and with the changes I worry about how people like him will get affected, he doesn't abuse the perk either. However there have been several instances of a teammate or I healing this friend only for the killer to find him right after he got healed with at least 1 other survivor with him but the killer chooses to chase him. There's even been times where we unhooked him and healed him under hook since two of us came for the rescue only for the killer to push in between both the other survivor and I to get to the now fully healed unhooked survivor and regardless of how hard we tried to get the killers attention they ignored us. So I'm really worried about things like that happening since its happened many times thus far.
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What can they really do about it though? I'm not trying to be a smart-alec, I just haven't read any decent ideas. Removing points is a joke and won't stop it. Making a survivor invincible is ridiculously OP. There's just not much they could do to stop it. Also, its not always intentional. For example, say I go across the map, hook someone else, and then come back to where you were unhooked. I look around for the person who unhooked you, but they urban evaded off somewhere and you're the only person I find. I'm sorry, but you can't expect me to just leave you alone. I already wasted time looking for the other person and can't afford to walk away and waste more.
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Crafty i agree. If a survivor wants to keep it longer then im gaining time
Thrawn i believe they mean healing others, not you
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Not unfair, but devs didn't really do anything to make it actually useful against tunneling. Just gave it a nerf.
Why is that? DS was never an anti-tunnel perk. It was like a "hit a skillcheck, hit the killer and get away once per trial", worked for tunneling somehow but allowed also doing other things or weaponizing the perk.
Now it can't be weaponized anymore that easily (which is good. The killer should the aggressor, not survivors) and DS really tries to be an anti-tunnel perk and fails at it's task. Tunneler tunnels after every hook, DS can be used just once. They can tunnel through DS because it doesn't hide scratch marks or obscure the killer's vision. The skillcheck is unnecessary if the purpose of the perk is just to prevent tunneling.
The problem is that devs want to keep tunneling as an option, they have said that. They wont change DS to actually counter it well.
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Well; that was literally all killers defence in end game chat for tunnelling “you should run ds” so what now? Why is this game so damn KILLER SIDED! Literally if you’re not a S tier survivor the game is not in your favour, now imagine getting completely camped, your borrowed time waited out; you can’t HEAL OR JUMP ON A GEN CAUSE YOU NEED DS then you get tunnelled anyway?? Literally ruining the game, you entitled killer Mains can’t say absolutely anything, you got perks that win games! They’re nerfing good perks for survivors and I don’t understand! Ds is the reason why I can even stand playing this game cause wow killer mains are the sweatiest people on earth and the game clearly caters for that, sort it a lot of my friends gave up on this game it’ll be me next
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You’re clearly w killer main #########? So a killer can just follow you wait for you to tap heal or tap a gen cause you know THE GAME GOES ON, and you get taken out of the game? Lmao I’m so done with this bs game and you entitled killers ruining it, one day you’ll all be playing dbd just killer running round cause these changes are a JOKEEEE and once ds changes im gone, dumb game
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We don't know yet.
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Its a fair and long needed change. It will still affect tunneling killers and not killers who don't tunnel but get ds because a survivor does a gen in front of the killer. Its still gonna help with tunneling just thats survivors wont have immunity while doing gens for 60 seconds.
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I'm not a killer main I'm entitled to nothing, you sound like a survivor main who feels that they need to win every round with every advantage you can. If you can't then the game is garbage and a joke. The game will not miss you if you leave. Killers abuse things too I was talking for everyone. don't make assumptions
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