Stop Ignoring Nerfs and Buffs on Both Sides - Scott Jund

not sure why any one person's opinion is more valid than others' TBH

after 50 hours the game's mechanics are not rocket science for either side.. someone with 10k hours can come to same conclusions as someone with 60

Imagine thinking anyone would believe you that @ILoveDemo

Taking out infinites that should never have been in the game isn’t a nerf, it’s a fix. And by “everyone be reasonable” I mean the mentality that the truth is always in the middle/ false equivocating. Sometimes the reality is that things fall one way. “Game shouldn’t be balanced around the 1%” translates to we should balance for players who don’t know how to play.

If Dead hard, decisive, and BT were removed from the game, joe blow and his friends’ death rates would be nearly identical. The reality is that most people are bad at the game, which is why kill rates are so high. Only the best players exploit these perks and make them broken. Balancing around top level play works in every game that I have ever played.

This. A game that is going to be balanced around "the best", CS for example. Is literally built around it from the ground up. This was a small scale early access title by a team of 20 or less people that blew up.

So you think the first year or two were balanced and thus the changes were unwarranted? Of course survivors had to be nerfed, it was pathetically sad how much power survivors had.

4 insta gens

literal infinites

pallet vacuums

darkness offerings that stacked

little to no gen defense options for killers

etc .. and the only things killers had were insta mori's

of course all that nonsense had to go, it shouldn't even be debatable

So when the opponent gets a significant nerf, it's a "fix" instead. But when the killer gets a fix, its suddenly a nerf?

Double standards on this guy. When Spirit is getting a nerf, she is gonna be "fixed".

Smh survivor mains in this thread coming out with the worst dbd takes, what else is new?

You're wrong about that tho. If the game favored survivors, then how come 70% of the time, killers get a 3k? If the game was balanced, you would expect a 2k being the average rather than a 3k. Because even though its an assymetrical game, you cant always "win" as killer and call the game fair. Its 4 survivors versus 1 killer, so if they are equally skilled, you would expect a 2k. Yet if killers and survivors are equally skilled, Killers have a massive edge towards a win instead of a draw.

So how does the game favor survivors, when equally skilled survivors lose their matches most of the time? No survivor expects to escape everytime, all survivors simply want to live in a round long enough to do more than just being chased all game. No survivor would be mad at being killed 3 matches in a row if they actually were given the oppertunity to have input. No survivor bitches about a 4k against a piggy because it feels earned, survivors ######### about spirit because there is no input on the survivor side that matters in a chase. "Standing still" is not a mindgame unless there was an actual noticable difference between Spirit's husk and Spirit herself(standing up close with a magnifying glass isnt noticable).

And I am a killer main, I use very off-meta builds that according to people like you shouldnt have any effect, yet I've been able to get 4k's against survivor SWF's with 5k hours. Your argument would probably be that those survivors are scrubs, but the thing is, people who dodge hits on a Spirit or a Nurse simply guessed correctly. The only counter to a Nurse is having a wall, the only counter to a Spirit is walking and hoping the player is actually deaf.

Both are essentially a position where there is 0 information on you and actually is the killers fault for underestimating the survivor and assuming they would make a mistake, and those situations are essentially non-existant and last for maybe 2 seconds at best. That isnt counterplay, that is flipping a coin.

Still dont believe me?

Against a Doctor, I can pre-emptively drop a pallet so that he has to either kick it or loop me around it. I can predict how long his shock effect would last to be able to still vault or drop a pallet, I can mindgame him around a wall because he at best hears me breathe if he listens very closely, while I can hear his footsteps if I listen very closely. I can make a move that allows me to dodge a hit, or I could not see a move coming that ends up hitting me. THIS is counterplay. Being able to accurately predict a killer and actually have behaviour that actively makes them question your next moves or decide to brute force you and hope you dont get any distance from questioning your plans.

Against a Nurse? If I run to any loop, she teleports and can adjust with the second one to hit me. If she was out of range anyway, she still zoned me to a smaller corner of the map while being a lot closer. At one point, if I no longer am able to make distance, I reach a pallet. If I drop it, she blinks and I get a hit, if I dont drop it, she blinks and I get a hit. If I drop it and vault it, she blinks and blinks back over, I get a hit. If I drop it and double fault it, she still gets a hit. If I somehow stun her, she blinks twice, and if I didnt make the geometrically optimal distance, she gets a hit. If she questions where I am at, she just blinks once or twice to scout pretty much the entire area I am in and get a hit as soon as she can blink again.

No matter what you do, assuming the Nurse is at a similar skill as you are, there is NO counterplay. Only the Nurse making mistakes.

But how does Spirit fall into that same group? Well, if I run to any loop, she can burst her power to get closer. Once she is close enough, all she needs to do is listen carefully to my movements and I cant do anything. Even if I walk with Iron Will, she can still hear my footsteps and breath. She has the ability to perfectly find my location, then simply phase for 1 second and give me a hit, if she makes a mistake, she still zoned me and is able to get a hit next time she tries. If she loses me, all she needs to do is stand still and listen for 1 second before actually going into phase to quickly check the parameter to find me and get a hit(unless I am in a locker, which is essentially giving her an instadown).

Once again assuming the skill levels are similar, there is NO counterplay to that. Only the Spirit making mistakes.

That is the difference between killers like Doctor and killers like Spirit and Nurse. This is why we want Spirit to either phase in the normal world while phasing at a similar pace that she phases out of existance while she is not phasing. Or at least keep her breathing while she is phasing. For Nurse, well, I feel like it should be easier to cancel her power with a flashlight burn. You literally cannot burn a Nurse with any flashlight addons, EVEN THOUGH she can be flashlight burned while teleporting. So why does she even have that "weakness" if the only way it works is 2 flashlights shining onto her at the same time. And even then, she gets warned quite easily for it and can instantly trigger her blink. And even if that were not the case, the fatique rate is EXACTLY the same as a normal blink, essentially making flashlights useless against a Nurse even though they SHOULD be useful. The only counterplay to Nurse's ability cannot be used because its not a weakness. It doesnt cancel a blink, it doesnt stop her from blinking, it doesnt stun her untill she basically already would hit fatique anyway, it does nothing. So how would you counterplay a Nurse, other than losing sight and the Nurse having a massive ego by assuming the survivor is bad?