Stop Ignoring Nerfs and Buffs on Both Sides - Scott Jund
Scott Jund addressing peoples current fixation only on the nerfs to the side they play going on at the moment.
Comments
-
People naturally focus on the negative.
13 -
I'm shocked that the bait was good enough to get a video.
I am impressed.
17 -
even if that specific one was a bait, there are plenty out there who are dead serious about exactly that topic, on both sides.
31 -
It's not exactly that he fell for it (at least i hope that's not the case) but there are a lot of people that are now whining about the OoO and DS changes and be like "Reeee,killer get always buffed and survivor only nerfed" and scott just talks about it
11 -
do people still take Jund seriously?
15 -
imma be honest i didn't even read the post, I just opened the first thread about it I saw on the forums for background to the point of the video
5 -
Can't really stand him, but he's right.
0 -
Thanks though for still trying to talk reason :P
2 -
Nerf Keys, Dead Hard, Spirit, and Freddy I'm fair and balanced
1 -
not sure why any one person's opinion is more valid than others' TBH
after 50 hours the game's mechanics are not rocket science for either side.. someone with 10k hours can come to same conclusions as someone with 60
6 -
With how the changes were going for a while even I was thinking the devs were a bit bais it went Billy nerf bubba buff surivor metta stayed the same blight came out killer metta changed pop nerf survivor metta stayed I forgot what came between twins and blight twins came out nothing changed on either side I believe and with the upcoming change clown buff undying nerf bunch of mislanious survivor perks buff killer metta changed again surivor stayed and at that point I was really thinking they were never going to change the surivor metta but thankfully the devs decided to open up and show what can be expected next chapter and new killer ohh and I forgot mori nerf just waiting on the keys now
1 -
I've gotten nothing to do so I'll bite. Why wouldn't they?
25 -
Because you constantly post ######### takes.
5 -
Like what, specifically? I'm happy to defend anything here.
19 -
I agree I have a big brain but no, it's still not bait.
2 -
Imagine thinking anyone would believe you that @ILoveDemo
11 -
The main issue is not the recent DS/OoO Nerf reactions, but that every single change has the exact same reaction. Survivors/Killers pointing fingers at each other and saying that the developers like them more than the other side.
That should be the take-away from this, not whether someones bad at the game or baiting.
3 -
Like this lukewarm, middle of the road “everyone be reasonable” video, or the idea that the game should be balanced around scrubs. The fact of the matter is that regardless of numbers, killer nerfs have been far more substantial than anything that has happened to survivors up to now.
3 -
That's exactly what someone trying to bait others would say 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
5 -
Imagen thinking anyone believe it's bait because a "Survivor Main" wrote it.
0 -
So its a ######### take that everyone should be reasonable? Suddenly find myself not caring whether or not you like my stuff. Also, I have never said the game should be balanced around "scrubs", ever, so that's another argument that makes no sense.
You are also completely out of your mind if you think killers have received "far more substantial nerfs" compared to survivors over the game's life. Like have you not even seen the game for the first year or two?
30 -
Taking out infinites that should never have been in the game isn’t a nerf, it’s a fix. And by “everyone be reasonable” I mean the mentality that the truth is always in the middle/ false equivocating. Sometimes the reality is that things fall one way. “Game shouldn’t be balanced around the 1%” translates to we should balance for players who don’t know how to play.
9 -
Its always "nice" to see something like that. Survivors have gotten far more Nerfs than Killers. Not saying that they were not justified, but when comparing the raw Numbers, Survivors were nerfed a lot more.
9 -
Holy ######### I have never seen so many twisting of words to suit a terrible argument in my life.
24 -
Every game balances around the top players. For some reason you and others in this community think that DBD should be an exception.
3 -
Gosh I give up it's like talking against a Wall with you.
0 -
Can you really, truly not understand what would happen if the game were balanced towards tournament teams only? Really? REALLY?
20 -
If Dead hard, decisive, and BT were removed from the game, joe blow and his friends’ death rates would be nearly identical. The reality is that most people are bad at the game, which is why kill rates are so high. Only the best players exploit these perks and make them broken. Balancing around top level play works in every game that I have ever played.
8 -
Yep,DbD isn't the right game for balancing towards high level players.Balancing around the more casual playerbase is the only option honestly.
19 -
This. A game that is going to be balanced around "the best", CS for example. Is literally built around it from the ground up. This was a small scale early access title by a team of 20 or less people that blew up.
Post edited by Rizzo on6 -
Yup, pretty much every game made today is balanced around top level play, but this just happens to be an exception...... I don’t buy it.
6 -
So you think the first year or two were balanced and thus the changes were unwarranted? Of course survivors had to be nerfed, it was pathetically sad how much power survivors had.
4 insta gens
literal infinites
pallet vacuums
darkness offerings that stacked
little to no gen defense options for killers
etc .. and the only things killers had were insta mori's
of course all that nonsense had to go, it shouldn't even be debatable
13 -
Yep,if we would balance around tournament swfs and 5k hours nurses then this game would be dead forever.
You just can't compare DbD balancing to other real E-Sports (e.g LoL,Overwatch etc.)
3 -
Yes,DbD is an exception.
It's a very unique game that isn't like those other games.
If you look at the tournament level you will see that those players play a completely different game.
If we would balance towards that then i'm sure this game will be dead.
6 -
That those things needed to be removed is clear, but those were still Nerfs.
You cannot just say that Killers get nerfed and Survivors get "fixed", lol.
14 -
Nurse with 115% movement speed and 3-6 blinks ? 👀
4 -
Billy flick, traps under hooks, etc. The game was utterly broken for both sides back then.
3 -
So when the opponent gets a significant nerf, it's a "fix" instead. But when the killer gets a fix, its suddenly a nerf?
Double standards on this guy. When Spirit is getting a nerf, she is gonna be "fixed".
12 -
You honestly believe that a survivor being able to run the killer for the entire match, with nothing that the killer can do, is comparable to Spirit? You can argue she is too strong, but you can do some things to stop her. There is nothing you can do about an infinite.
7 -
Smh survivor mains in this thread coming out with the worst dbd takes, what else is new?
8 -
It was a nerf though.
Fixing things refers to bugs
7 -
How long was she 115 for?
This isn't a trick question it was before my time
2 -
Okay but removing infinites was still a nerf though.
7 -
Just over a month.
Nurse was introduced in Patch 1.1.0 (18th August, 2016) and her movement speed nerf was in Patch 1.1.2 (23rd September, 2016).
4 -
Seems like until the second hotfix after patch 1.1.0 was released
0 -
Ya got spun.
Nah I love ya
4 -
It doesn't matter who's got any more nerfs.
What's the important thing is this game is heading into a more balanced state in it was in the past.
If that means you have to nerf one side 100 times and another side 20 times then so be it. I'm not denying who has had the most nerfs but the changes overall for both sides have been far more healthier for the game.
Once they tackle keys and Freddy and some of the other unhealthy killer addons we can actually get a game that's far more enjoyable
7 -
Trapper and Nurse could deal with all of the windows while Hillbilly could deal with the vast majority of them(while being able to have insane wallgrinds that spun you around walls) and that was 75% of the killers back then and Wraith actually could vault faster than survivors could with his addons, so windows werent really a big deal for Wraith. Meaning that there was ways to counter an infinite in almost all situations.
Survivors who were trying infinites were not doing gens either. As with most killers you could brute force the chase even with an infinite as survivors had to play flawlessly to keep that infinite an actual infinite. It might be a chase that lasts 5 whole minutes, but it would end.
So yes, with the dev's mindset of "the danger of a match being over before the first gen pops" applies there too: "the danger of a survivor endlessly looping you". Which is still possible, although its been extremely nerfed.
There is nothing you can do against a Spirit that you cant do against an infinite: You just guess and hope you guessed lucky. The only way to counter a spirit is to truly soulread her, which also applies to an infinite. If you can fully soulread a survivor, you can battle almost any infinite with just an m1 playstyle. I wouldnt really call "actual mindreading" a legitimate counter to a killer. That's like saying "actually mindreading" survivors is a legitimate counter to infinites. You would disagree on one, so why not on the other? Because there are perks to counter it? You mean, perks that are useless against half the killer roster, purely running that every single match in the slight chance you'll actually encounter one? You mean like how Bamboozle could counter old infinites meaning that old infinites should return because there are perks against it now?
How are you not aware of your bias here? Any huge, but necessary nerf to survivor is a fix, but any huge, necessary nerf to killer is unwarrented? Should I remind to you that there was absolutely 0 counterplay to nurse? Even if you had 10 times the hours in survivor than the nurse ever played, there would be 0 counterplay. Is that a healthy killer in your opinion? One that the most skilled survivors cant counterplay? You mean like how the most skilled survivors could use an infinite that has near 0 counterplay as a killer? Seriously, any survivor "fix" you can think of, I can find a comparable killer "fix".
Take the original DS for example, that perk was nothing because original Dying Light was a thing. If old DS was a fix, then surely you would agree Dying Light was also a fix as old Dying Light was far more powerful than old DS, or is it now suddenly a nerf?
4 -
Except that I'm not biased- I play a ton of survivor (usually because of the rift). Anyone with an objective opinion knows that this game favors survivor , even in solo que. The problem is that most survivors are spoiled and expect to escape every time. Your team is naturally going to hurt you sometimes, but gens go too fast/loops are too strong for the game to favor killer. Anyone screaming about 0 counterplay to Nurse and Spirit lacks game knowledge.
4 -
You're wrong about that tho. If the game favored survivors, then how come 70% of the time, killers get a 3k? If the game was balanced, you would expect a 2k being the average rather than a 3k. Because even though its an assymetrical game, you cant always "win" as killer and call the game fair. Its 4 survivors versus 1 killer, so if they are equally skilled, you would expect a 2k. Yet if killers and survivors are equally skilled, Killers have a massive edge towards a win instead of a draw.
So how does the game favor survivors, when equally skilled survivors lose their matches most of the time? No survivor expects to escape everytime, all survivors simply want to live in a round long enough to do more than just being chased all game. No survivor would be mad at being killed 3 matches in a row if they actually were given the oppertunity to have input. No survivor bitches about a 4k against a piggy because it feels earned, survivors ######### about spirit because there is no input on the survivor side that matters in a chase. "Standing still" is not a mindgame unless there was an actual noticable difference between Spirit's husk and Spirit herself(standing up close with a magnifying glass isnt noticable).
And I am a killer main, I use very off-meta builds that according to people like you shouldnt have any effect, yet I've been able to get 4k's against survivor SWF's with 5k hours. Your argument would probably be that those survivors are scrubs, but the thing is, people who dodge hits on a Spirit or a Nurse simply guessed correctly. The only counter to a Nurse is having a wall, the only counter to a Spirit is walking and hoping the player is actually deaf.
Both are essentially a position where there is 0 information on you and actually is the killers fault for underestimating the survivor and assuming they would make a mistake, and those situations are essentially non-existant and last for maybe 2 seconds at best. That isnt counterplay, that is flipping a coin.
Still dont believe me?
Against a Doctor, I can pre-emptively drop a pallet so that he has to either kick it or loop me around it. I can predict how long his shock effect would last to be able to still vault or drop a pallet, I can mindgame him around a wall because he at best hears me breathe if he listens very closely, while I can hear his footsteps if I listen very closely. I can make a move that allows me to dodge a hit, or I could not see a move coming that ends up hitting me. THIS is counterplay. Being able to accurately predict a killer and actually have behaviour that actively makes them question your next moves or decide to brute force you and hope you dont get any distance from questioning your plans.
Against a Nurse? If I run to any loop, she teleports and can adjust with the second one to hit me. If she was out of range anyway, she still zoned me to a smaller corner of the map while being a lot closer. At one point, if I no longer am able to make distance, I reach a pallet. If I drop it, she blinks and I get a hit, if I dont drop it, she blinks and I get a hit. If I drop it and vault it, she blinks and blinks back over, I get a hit. If I drop it and double fault it, she still gets a hit. If I somehow stun her, she blinks twice, and if I didnt make the geometrically optimal distance, she gets a hit. If she questions where I am at, she just blinks once or twice to scout pretty much the entire area I am in and get a hit as soon as she can blink again.
No matter what you do, assuming the Nurse is at a similar skill as you are, there is NO counterplay. Only the Nurse making mistakes.
But how does Spirit fall into that same group? Well, if I run to any loop, she can burst her power to get closer. Once she is close enough, all she needs to do is listen carefully to my movements and I cant do anything. Even if I walk with Iron Will, she can still hear my footsteps and breath. She has the ability to perfectly find my location, then simply phase for 1 second and give me a hit, if she makes a mistake, she still zoned me and is able to get a hit next time she tries. If she loses me, all she needs to do is stand still and listen for 1 second before actually going into phase to quickly check the parameter to find me and get a hit(unless I am in a locker, which is essentially giving her an instadown).
Once again assuming the skill levels are similar, there is NO counterplay to that. Only the Spirit making mistakes.
That is the difference between killers like Doctor and killers like Spirit and Nurse. This is why we want Spirit to either phase in the normal world while phasing at a similar pace that she phases out of existance while she is not phasing. Or at least keep her breathing while she is phasing. For Nurse, well, I feel like it should be easier to cancel her power with a flashlight burn. You literally cannot burn a Nurse with any flashlight addons, EVEN THOUGH she can be flashlight burned while teleporting. So why does she even have that "weakness" if the only way it works is 2 flashlights shining onto her at the same time. And even then, she gets warned quite easily for it and can instantly trigger her blink. And even if that were not the case, the fatique rate is EXACTLY the same as a normal blink, essentially making flashlights useless against a Nurse even though they SHOULD be useful. The only counterplay to Nurse's ability cannot be used because its not a weakness. It doesnt cancel a blink, it doesnt stop her from blinking, it doesnt stun her untill she basically already would hit fatique anyway, it does nothing. So how would you counterplay a Nurse, other than losing sight and the Nurse having a massive ego by assuming the survivor is bad?
5
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
