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The Shape Rework
As a a fan of Halloween, I feel weird that I am immensely satisfied and disappointed with how Myers ended up being. I feel he is the best representation of the old style of killer design, good and bad. Very unique (when he released), interesting for surviors, fun/scary concept, and highly fitting for the source material. But at the same time he's a heavy victim of power creep, very easily countable, only good against bad survivors, has some gimmicky/overpowered add-ons, and feels like he has nothing but cons at times.
Myers has one of the worst early games for any killer (only better than Trapper/Hag), has inconsistent pressure, no advantages in either 1v1 chase or 4v1 map control, is forced to waste time stalking, and has to rely on snowballing in a meta that counters it (current DS, Unbreakable, Borrowed Time, etc.). The only thing he has going for him is an underwhelming snowball ability that other killers do better, and has a low terror radius in tier II. I feel like players and devs ignore him because he is fun for survivors to face, ignoring his weak performance and redundancy from killers like Ghostface and Oni. I don't think reworks need make killers near S tier, and can even keep traits that they always had which is what I want to accomplish with Myers.
Evil Within I/III flat buffs:
Evil Within I:
- Myers moves at 115% (normal speed)
- Myers only has to stalk for 3 seconds (instead of 5)
- Myers cannot preform any offensive action in tier I, and as such can't "start a chase"
While you might think the last change is a huge nerf, it actually really isn't. It's Myers 101 to get out of tier I as quickly as possible, and with the non-existent lunge and dedicated servers stopping grabbing, it doesn't really change anything. I was adement about this change, as it keeps the idea of tier I, without making Myers early game and on big maps a nightmare of the past.
Evil Within III:
- Myers not now has a universal action speed buff of 50% to everything (i.e. breaking pallets/windows, kicking generators, windows, pickup and hooking. Think "Fire Up base kit. Can stack.)
- Evil Within's timer is paused when carrying a survivor
One of the most frustrating things to me when playing as Myers is when after spending all this time building up power, surviors just easily counterplay by just playing more safe, and waisting tier III in the process. This would encourage them to play even more safe, but probably make them panic more and get away with less. My point is that Myers need more than just "insta-down, longer lunge, and slightly faster vaulting" for tier III to be threatening.
New secondary powers:
To give Evil more worth that just "tier up", and to give Myers more interesting and strong tools to work with, I gave him additional abilities unique to each tier. I made these both while being fitting for the character, but also with how a killer game goes. Tier I=slow early game, Tier II=Normal mid game play, Tier III=snowball/pressure point.
Stalking changes:
- The limit to stalking one survivor goes down overtime (so a depleated survivor can eventually be stalked again)
- This does not apply to survivors with crows
In order to make Evil constantly available, this was a needed change.
Obsessive Evil (EW I only):
- Press the secondary ability button (while stalking a survivor) to tag said survivor as the obsession
- The obsession (if they were tagged by this power) be stalked 25% faster than an average survivor
- The obsession (if they were tagged by this power) has killer instinct reveal for 5 seconds either when entering tier III or if they are the last survior alive.
- Obsessive Evil can only be used once (and does not initially create an obsession from perks)
I wanted to keep the tier I power moderate, so I came up with this from the desire for Myers to have something to effect the obsession, encourage to stalk them, and leave them for last.
Silent Evil (EW II only):
- Press the secondary ability to teleport up to 45 meters away
- Not usable in a chase
- Myers can not move for 2 seconds after Silent Evil
- Cooldown of 35 seconds
- Survivors (if they look in the direction) will see a static TV like effect (similar to Friday the 13th the game)
- Survivors who see Myers right as/after he teleported will hear: [0:00-0:03]
- Takes 25% of the total tier II Evil bar (can knock back into tier I if EW bar is low enough)
This was idea I had when thinking of more ways to make Myers useful and scary besides just "insta-down/low terror radius" . It gives Myers a much needed mobility boost (something he really needs), while making it a dilemma to use/spam as it will decrease the amount of Evil you have. And obviously it's fun for survivors with the whole jumpscare aspect.
Inexorable Evil (Tier III only):
- Press the secondary ability button to activate the "inexorable" state
- While in this state Myers now moves at 110% and is immune to all stuns, and can instantly break pallets and breakable doors if they either hit him or by pressing the "break" button. He also will walk right through windows (which will then be repaired by the entity)
- He will get out of this state if he lands a hit
- Activating this will make the tier III timer more rapidly deplate, and doing any of those actions make it depleate even faster
- Cooldown of 20 seconds
- Myers can cancel this state prematurely if he hits the secondary ability button again, but he will go into a stagger state for 4 seconds (similarly to Legion)
- The blood on Myers' weapon will constantly drip as a slight notification to survivors that this is active
The existence of Oni shows that a "power burst killer" should actually be powerful. After the commitment to stalking, Myers needs help in the 1v1. An insta-down basic M1 killer is definitely not enough.
Add-on changes:
These are both to accommodate for the rework, and also Myers has some very weird gimmicky ones.
Fragment Tuft of Hair:
- Practically the same, but you can now stalk in tier III to use Inexorable Evil
Judith's Tombstone:
- The same, but the insta-mori cannot be used while in Inexorable Evil
Lock of Hair:
- Downing a survivor in EW III grants a Moderate amount of Evil back
This add-on is actually a lot worse than the green Hair Bow Tie, so I reworked it to help Myers' snowball further
Scratched Mirror:
- The obsession stalking rate is moderately increased (+10)
- The killer instinct reaveal is 20 seconds longer
- Effects only apply is the obsession was marked from Obsessive Evil
Now I do love me some scratched mirror, but it's so gimmicky to point where it should just be a new killer power. I wanted to keep it's emphasis on tier I with Obsessive Evil.
Tombstone Piece:
- Inexorable Evil's depletion is considerably lessened (-1.5x)
I'm sorry, but this add-on is just crazy, and ironically much better than the iridescent version, so I think it deserves a rework of its own.
Vanity Mirror:
- Considerably increases of the range Silent Evil's (+20 meters)
Same as scratched mirror. Way too gimmicky in its current state, but I wanted to retain the emphasis on tier II.
Jewelry Box family:
- When in EW III, survivors scream after spending 16 (brown)/12 (gold)/8 (green) seconds (straight) in your terror radius
These add-ons are useless, so I made it so Myers is less dependent on Infections Fright.
Judith's Journal:
- Go Undetectable when stalking in EW II
I changed this sice Scratched Mirror and Obsessive Evil took it's place.
Boyfriend's Memo:
- Tremendously increased stalking in EW I (-1.5 seconds)
I had to change this with the tier I changes, but it was really useless anyways.
(New brown add-on) Clown Mask:
- Slightly increases lunge in EW III
Probably too good for a brown, but I added it because Myers has the incorrect amount of brown add-ons for some reason.
This obviously took a lot of time, but it's just an idea, so share your own as well.
Comments
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Note: When it says "0:00-0:03" that is a link to the sound effect.
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In all honesty, I think Myers is more hampered by the newer maps than anything else. Any map without a reasonably high amount of LoS blockers hurt him so much. Even if you aren't going for attacking people while in EW1, your stalk rate is dependent on how close you are to your target. If they start running really early, you'll get next to nothing. Well... and Spine Chill.
However... overall I dislike your rework. Here's the thing. Oni does the whole "Charge up, go HAM, and Snowball" thing way better than Myers does. Honestly he always will. For that reason... any rework that pushes Myers more towards EW3 gameplay at the expense of EW1 and EW2 is, in my opinion a mistake. Instead they should look into making using EW1 and EW2 better. Those states are actually unique. EW1 is the only permanent Undetectable that allows attacking. EW2 is the only 115% Killer with a lower than 32m Terror Radius.
Also, the EW2 teleport. Like initially I was like "That'd be neat" but this again kind of bumps up against what other killers, namely Freddy, Demo, and kind of Hag can do. I'm just not too sure about that.
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I originally had the idea to give all the powers possible as long as he used up evil, to put less foucus on always leveling up to tier III. But I realized with how killers always have two "active" powers at once, and that it kind of made him too broken anyways, which is why I linked them to tiers.
You are right about the teleport, but I don't exactly think that Myers' power is completely unique now (even though he did the stalk/power up first).
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To be fair when I read the teleport ability I though of Nurse. If not in chase he would have high map mobility and, if timed correctly, insta-down pressure with it. It’s kinda of like a Nurse when haunted grounds pops. Even if the teleport ability doesn’t work in chase it can still be used to be behind a survivor, then pop tier III then insta-down with little to no reaction time. This strategy is practically infinite too since from your buffing list, survivors regenerate evil, meaning Michael can use tier III infinitely instead of having a few chances in the normal game.
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I totally disagree with the suggested reworks to EW1. It's true that escaping EW1 is vital for Myers, and I think it should be made easier in some way as highly skilled Survivors can be too oppressive towards Myers when he's trying to escape it, BUT Myers pulling you off a gen in EW1 isn't just fun, it's genuinely iconic to the game. Removing a Killer's entire ability to ATTACK before he escapes EW1 is a terrible mistake IMO.
The EW3 changes, assuming the +50% vault speed isn't stacking with what Myers already has in EW3, seem fairly reasonable. I do think it'd need playtesting though especially in conjunction with Brutal Strength, Bamboozle, etc to make sure it doesn't along with the increased lunge let Myers just plow through loops like they don't exist.
The idea of giving Myers a new secondary power depending on his EW level also IMO violates Myers' initial design and fun factor. Myers' idea is that he's an M1 killer who becomes dramatically more powerful with Stalking. Regarding the specific powers:
Obsessive Evil I think is a pretty solid idea for an addon or etc for Myers and it's a thematic concept.
Silent Evil feels like you didn't necessarily think through the UI challenges. There's a reason why long range teleports generally have specific targets in DbD. (demo's portals or freddy's generators) Now, giving Myers a way to get around the map would genuinely be an effective way to buff him, but to be honest I don't entirely want it to just be a teleport as that's already what killers like the aforementioned Demo/Freddy do.
Inexorable Evil reeks of release day Legion and I don't think anybody wants that back.
I don't have that much to say about the addons because they're mostly in support of these changes, apart from reiterating that removing the Scratched Mirror playstyle is just anti-fun if nothing else.
Buffing Myers is a fine goal but I think if this rework launched people would be more bummed out than excited.
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This was what I meant by a change for Myers, I really like this rework concept, but the truth is that I feel that teleporting and not being stunned by a paddle in EW3 reminds me more of the power of Jason in his movies and rather this It would have been a perfect concept for the character, but with this concept and above all that teleportation would be more terrifying than it was before, I mean, because in his films he always disappeared in sight of someone or without being seen. I also like the sound you mention for its teleportation, I think this concept must have been in the game a long time ago, since now Myers is very outdated and I feel the need to see something new in it, in addons maybe not much, if not in his power, with Myers it costs 8000 malice in each game and is tedious, since his power is now simpler.
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The whole "stealthy disappearance" is what I was going for. Not really any for the killer to create distractions and make it so survivors can't turn their cameras (like what happens in the movies).
Post edited by B_Deity on0 -
This feels a bit excessive, all Myers needs is few of his add-ons changed, buffed, tweaked and then some of his core power mechanics altered a little bit.
But the creativity is to be admired and I can see some of these ideas were created with the movie(s) in mind which is always fun to see and imagine :)
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