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Dead Dawg Saloon is a free 4k
People always mention haddonfield being too survivor sidedness and needing a nerf (which it 100% does) but does anyone ever mention how stupidly killer sided dead dawg saloon is? i genuinely don’t think i’ve ever lost on that map as killer.
Dead Dawg Saloon is the killers version of haddonfield and i’ll explain why.
- Not only is the map small, the outside borders of the map are dead zone so the map is pretty much even smaller then what it is.
- Gen spawns are insanely close up to the point where you can patrol around 4+ gens within 25 seconds
- Apart from the 2 carriage trailers, Every filler pallet is unsafe and is almost a free hit every time.
- Every half decent loop (The L&T wall and the loop that’s dead dawg specific with a window in the middle) have breakable walls making them not very safe
- The breakable wall at shack makes the window (which was originally 50/50) now almost guarantee an m1 since it can’t be fast vaulted from the new wall angle.
- If you stand at the center of the road facing the saloon, you can sometimes see 4 gens at once (road, saloon, building opposite saloon and other road gen)
- The whole back side of the map behind hangman is basically dead zone, the best loop there is the one of 2 small rocks with a pallet on the middle which is one of the most unsafe pallets in dbd.
- Map is super open in the middle and at the back, only good thing is bushes.
- Map is so easy to pressure it’s not even funny, you can hook someone and already have been at multiple different gens before they’ve even been on a hook for 20 seconds.
Once haddonfield gets nerfed, dead dawg should receive some sort of buff/tweaks to make it actually some bats viable.
!dont be rude in the comments
Comments
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I don't like the free 4k or free escape mentality. It is simply not true because even you escaped the saloon as much as you died there, or close.
What I find really helpful on that map is saloon. You can waste killers time there and some of them won't even chase you in there especially if the gen upstairs is finished.
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I think I have survived more on this map than deaths. If the team doesn't waste every pallet right away, there are plenty of obstacles.
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I played SWF with 1 friend last week. We kept bringing Saloon because it's actually pretty fun and strong for survivors.
The saloon is stupidly strong by itself but then you also have loops (including shack) right around the saloon. The water tower loop can be chained into the seemingly weak window behind it or the rng T-L next to it as well.
Most pallets on that map are rather safe and easy to play correctly, too.
So overall I disagree: That map is crazy strong for survivors even if we ignore all the stealth options/bushes. I never feel like I'm done for when the killer finds me on that map unlike let's say Shelter Woods (with bad rng).
Post edited by Yamaoka on15 -
I agree with some of the others here that The Saloon is actually pretty survivor sided, or it's at least a lot better than how your describing it.
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The map is actually incredibly frustrating as a lot of killers, but in particular Pyramid Head. It's actually arguable his worst map in the game and should be a pretty easy map to win. Same with Twins here.
The ability to spawn 5 platform generators shouldn't be underestimated either. Neither should the main building, even with the correct walls broken.
The map just needs a complete rework from the ground up.
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As long as survivors aren't doing the saloon gen first, it can be pretty hard for killers to defend the Saloon gen + 2 other gens even if they are all in the same corner, because navigating up to the Saloon gen takes a lot of time.
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I consider the map survivor sided. Nurse is probably the only killer that can take advantage of its smaller size.
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Get a couple of the gens on the ground done before you touch any gen on a second floor, especially the Saloon gen. Makes the late game much harder for most killers to patrol
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Its a map with a strong main building that's always next to the killer shack with effectively 3 guaranteed generators(Two always being on an upper floor) near these buildings.
Let alone with a lot of spots for all exhaustion perks but Head on to be used in while a chase.
Overall a good design choice but favors survivors due to enabling a lot of stronger but niche exhaustion perks like balanced landing/Lithe to be able to be used in nearly every chase.
I am sorry but while its not haddon its still one of the safest maps for survivors in the game.
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survivor sided? have you been smoking some walter white blue 😳
Even otz, dowsey, oh tofu, fungoose ect put that map as the most killer sided map in dbd.
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wdym? literally every killer in dbd takes advantage of small maps, a small map is literally the best map a dbd killer can get.
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This is untrue. The saloon and the buildings along the street are insanely strong, there's several god pallets, two almost free gens (at minimum, there can easily be more), and the survivors can always crouch in a bush and waste even more of the killers time.
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It's one of my favorite maps. Killers can never find me unless I let them.
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This post should be about Hawkins. Dead dawg is a toss up that slightly favors survivors more often IMO.
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I mean, yeah it's a slightly killer sided map but free 4k my ass. No map is a free 4k, the closest map to that is maybe shelter woods.
You are just trying to diminish a killer's victory by putting the blame on anything but yourself lol.
There are a ton of really good bush hiding spots on Dead Dawg, and plenty of structural loops that can be used to your advantage.
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Survivors can hide easily on the map and see the killer coming from a good distance on almost all the gens. Do the gens in an order that keeps them spread out and you'll win late. Just don't get basement hooked.
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I'm actually straight down the middle with this one.
I agree with a lot of your points, the outside areas being deadzones, the breakable walls and pallets are fairly unsafe, and kill shack as well.
I have also countless times won on the map, both as survivor and killer.
Survivors have a lot of stealth options and walls that make you lose visuals, but because gen spawns are all so close together, the only way to lose on the map is if you suck at gen pressure.
I'd say the map is pretty balanced, as there are flaws for both survivors and killers.
I disagree with pretty much everyone else in the comments though, lmao.
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Pretty much every area of the map have a use for lithe and balance landing, the entire quadrant of the saloon is heavily survivor sided and there are some pretty decent loop on the other side.
Honestly I find it pretty balance and I like the fact that all exhaustion perk can be use in every chase. There are strong survivor area and some nice hiding spot but it's a small map.
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Lol. It has 2 platform gens guaranteed, and the saloon gen is a free gen. It’s basically a 4 gen map.
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Solid disagree. I've escaped from this map many, many times. It's not as bad as you say.
Shelter Woods is far more killer-sided map. This map at least has the saloon, which is a good place to juke the killer and or keep them busy, and many of the structures are good for survivor. It's small but because of its verticality it's pretty good for survivors.
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hook line sinker.
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Found that pretty funny. Even it depends 100% on the survs beeing really stupid and takes 0% skill.
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They are wrong frankly.
Dawg is definitely survvivor-sided. Only Nurse and Hag probably have an advantage on this map.
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actually this is true depends on gens spawn but most of killer easily get 3-4k depends on skill of killer if its purple then maybe still have chance but if you do solo and facing red ranks killer you're doomed the worst place to get hanged is if the basement outside saloon.
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I find it hard to find survivors on saloon. When they hide in the bushes it’s just a snooze fest. I’ve actually escaped from dead dawg very often.
Maybe you’re just good at the game. I mean the saloon, not the game. You know what I mean.
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Doesn't the map have numerous platform gens? The pallets are hard to work with but are still better than those genuinely useless filler pallets on Ormond. On top of that you have to break the wall on the top floor of the main building. Repair gens efficiently and it's probably fairly balanced no? Unless of course it's a Nurse but Nurse basically just gets to play an entirely different game if they're good.
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That's true of almost all maps. Skilled killers will beat down survivors in general, even on Haddonfield. Especially on solo.
Only the most skilled and coordinated survivors can run circles around killer consistently.
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actually i could still juke a bit and do gens if its some other maps but the position of gens in dawg is really near to each other
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If one survivor is able to do a 60+sec chase and the other ones are not complete potatoes (swf or not) then the survivor have a decent chance at getting 2 escape.
I often play with some friend, the group usually look like 1 or 2 red (if not 2 then 1 rank 5)+ 2green or 1 green and a yellow. 80% of all killer are purple rank and as long as one of the two better survivor are able to get a 60s+ chase then we have a pretty good chance at 2 escape or more.
It all depend on how many mistakes survivor make and if they use second chance perk in a good way.
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It really depends on what Survivors you face and what Killer you're playing.
If you're a Doctor and you're facing four Claudettes that Self Care in corners every time they're Injured while you have Ruin, of course it'll be a free 4k. The map is tiny and you're getting a lot of value out of the advanced totem spawns on that map.
If you're playing Adept Wraith against four good and attentive Survivors with good toolboxes, DS, Unbreakable, and Sprint Burst I think you'll be hard pressed to squeeze in two kills. As small as the map is, they can just split up on gens - without regression perks you'll be relying on being able to slug people or get fast downs as a slightly faster M1 Killer.
There is no such thing as a 'free' Escape or a 'free' 4k. Both sides have a bigger say in the outcome of a game rather than any map's layout itself does.
The map itself is balanced IMO - it just seems imbalanced to other people because it highlights the imbalances between certain aspects of the two roles. You're not seeing a Killer sided map or a Survivor sided map, you're seeing a strong Killer/Killer builds or a strong Survivor/Survivor team.
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For me, regardless of how balanced people think the map is, I feel it's one of the best design tile wise. Good amount of windows (lithe), some breakable wall (of course, it was the map to introduce them), plenty of elevated area (balance landing), some really strong area for survivor (saloon), some less, decent bush to hide in, enough locker and some in really nice position for some head on etc.
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This map in some ways is one of the best survivor maps (not overall but certain qualities its the best). It has so much stuff to hide behind/in its pretty insane. This map requires much more stealth as a survivor which is nice imo. Yes it feels smaller and gens are closer but you have lots of options to hide
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A 60 second chase is a huge skill gap between killer and that survivor. That or survivor got lucky and killer got unlucky with all his mindgames.
Survivors deserve a win in either case.
It also depends on how many mistakes the killer makes. People need to stop pretending that killers only win if survivor make mistakes.
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It's still relatively easy to waste the killer's time on Dead Dawg. That's what makes the map fairly balanced and even a bit survivor-sided.
Map is small but it's very vertical and there are many good looping and stealth/juke spots. That's why it's actually more survivor-sided than killer-sided. The only thing the map has going for it for killers is its small size. Pretty much everything else is in favor of survivors.
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If played well it's not that hard to go for a good 40-60sec+ chase. 1-2 good mindgame, using 1-2 good loop at full potential and add 1-2 mistake on the killer's part and voila you made him chase you for 60sec. You don't get that too often but once you get good as survivor I expect you to get at least 1 pallet stun every chase giving you a solid 10s on the killer (stun+time it take for him to come close to you again) and taking full potential of most tiles like jungle gym (a solid 10sec again). Baiting a killer's ability and dodging it (huntress, demo, DS etc.) also add up.
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