For all the key nerfers out there
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Well, we know it's getting an animation, so that's a thing.
My guess is 5-10 seconds of opening it. They might include a skill check for some reason, but I kind of doubt it. It'll probably be like cleansing a totem, where it starts over every time you let go until it's open. I also wouldn't be surprised if they added a perk that gave aura reading to a revealed hatch.
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That sounds like nerfing keys to me, so, yeah, by all means.
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Using your stupid example:
What if the last Survivor played well?
They shouldn't have any chance to escape?
Insert stupid argument about it's a team game and they don't deserve to escape blah blah blah
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YEAH NO
My problem has ALWAYS been the WAY hatch is opened with keys
They shouldn't be the instant BS we currently have, IF they took time to open the hatch and had a fair way to alert the killer, keys opening hatch would be balanced.
I personally think this is the best way it can be done HATCH REWORK IDEA
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Some guys have hard time with punctuation.
Oh and, concerning the key
Did you already play a game for an adept with a low tier killer, you do very well, kill somebody, and then nothing happens for 2-3 minutes because of stealth plays, then the last three survivors fast vault to get you and t-bag you on the hatch ?
It's unfair when keys are brought in SWF with a map, a map offering, and a hatch location offering. You literally can't do anything if the survivors are not total idiots.
Just play these games, we'll your point of view after that.
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We most definitely do still need hatch. Hatch is about the best option a Survivor has from... Well, surviving that situation, and most of the time, I still feel that the killer is more likely to find the hatch first. (After all, Killer had probably already been traveling the map more, moves faster then Survivors, and can slug for the 4k...) Doors generally aren't a valid option, since, (and maybe it's just me) but it feels like door spawns have been closer then before, and, unless it's been reverted, last I remember the Door% thing wasn't in the game any more.
Idk, I think keys are fine unless they're a last minute swap into them. You either know they're coming, or someone dedicated their whole build and was doing a secondary objective to get one. First option means you can prepare for it, second means they spent less time on gens and aren't running strong perks. Add that in that decent key plays either require you to have had Survivors split up and bum rush gens from the start (which is rare), be coordinated and some teammates dead, or the killer to have just had an absolutely awful early game... I don't mind them. Most of the time I just see them used for one guy to get out, if used at all.
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Crutch
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Keys should be removed from the game. You should not be allowed to bypass the game objective like that.
Imagine if there was an item that a Killer could click on that instantly killed all four Survivors at once and won him the game just because too many generators got done.
It would be like NOED on crack.
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Hatch gives the survivor a better chance at escaping and the doors are very well known for being incredibly unfair to survivors and some killers like demo, doctor, or just high mobility killers would just always get 4k's. let's not forget that it would also buff slugging for a 4k.
hatch is fair for the last survivor as the killer has already won no need to give them a free kill, keys can be balanced in regards to opening the hatch there is no reason to remove it when there are better options that are not limited like mori's were.
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Im curious... why remove it and not re-work it to make it more fun/interactive?
As much as I am not a fan of keys atm, Im against flat out removing things. Hatch has a place in this game, it would be great if there was some rng attached to the actual key itself (for example) so it may , may not work when using it. Could even be attached to those luck offerings that just take up space in our inventories.
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Having 2 gates to choose from is having no chance?
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not against doctor, demo, or any high mobility killer.
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Hatch is a outdated mechanic. That can be easily removed, by simply triggering the EGC once there is only 1 survivor left.
They could increase the minimum distance between the gates or buff Wake Up to compensate.
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Sometimes with gate spawn rng both gates spawn on the same wall or in los. Nothing you can really do in those situations.
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Doctor and Demo aren't exactly meta killers. Annoying? Sure, but meta?
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See above your post.
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doesn't matter if the killer is meta
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Sorry but saying it is outdated isn’t reason enough to convince me that it should be removed.
Also, triggering the EGC instead of hatch spawning, would be like what happens when the killer finds hatch immediately. Most gates don’t open because the gates are too close. With the right killer/perk (like whispers) it’s like we’re back to boring gameplay again.
That idea isn’t interactive whatsoever.
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I thought about a way to rework or nerfing keys. And I came with an idea that could be cool, more of rework, that is :
- Keys can only open hatch when found during the game (only Iri and purple, keeping the same function).
- When you leave the game with a key (through hatch or gates or White Ward), the key keep it's rarity, but can no longer open hatches when you brought it in game, and now it's only ability is an aura reader. For example, the green key would have 8 seconds, and nothing else, purple key would have 16 seconds, plus you see survivors aura in a 16 meters, iri key would have 16 seconds, plus you see killer's aura in a 16 meters. These are example, it could be any other effect, or they last longer depending on rarity, but you don't have the base aura reading.
So, what do you think ? :)
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I've wanted this (the OP's idea) to be in the game for a while. Hatch only spawns for last survivor or when all gens are done.
I would like to add to one thing to this. If the killer finds the hatch and stomps it closed, it should be broken and not be able to be opened again, even with a key.
When I'm the last survivor and have a key I can just follow the killer around until he closes the hatch then run up and jump in it in his face. Nothing he can do. It's not really fair, he found the hatch first and I got rewarded.
I think these changes would put keys and the hatch on the same level as moris, a slight advantage, but not gamebreakingly overpowered.
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The team failed as a whole. Why does the last survivor need another second chance on top of all the second chances he already has? Where is that second chance mechanic for the killer that performs bad?
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You ironically cracked the code..The hatch spawns in too early.
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See message above.
Also, survivors could equip Lauries aura blocking perk (don't remember the name now) and Wake Up.
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NOED is the ultimate killer second chance perk. I don’t see too much wrong with keys in solo Q, it’s extremely hard to coordinate leaving through the hatch without communication.
Killers still have loads of busted addons to use. Why shouldn’t survivors have some good stuff? All that’s left is medkits really and those are pretty boring. Flashlights hardly work against good killers.
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Don't compare perks to game mechanics unless you want that survivors equip a perk so the hatch spawns.
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You are complaining about survivor second chance perks, so I compare it to NOED. A key is hardly a free win in solo Q. The matchmaking is outright broken.
Even if you find the hatch, gathering up all your teammates is a nightmare and someone is bound to get caught first.
And as I said, killers still have plenty of “I win” buttons they can push. Iri head, rusty shackles, tombstone piece, tampered timer+crate of gears, alchemists ring, mother daughter ring, etc etc.
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My only concern is when survivors bring a key and a blueprint to spawn hatch at the shack, when this happens I think nothing of it and down all survivors before the hatch can spawn but Survivors can DC tech and force the hatch to spawn and open if nessisary, allowing for an escape for an exchange of the DC penalty.
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Now you're comparing addons to perks. Survivors have red syringes, BNP, etc. So what's the point comparing those with perks?
Now that I think about it. Making the hatch spawn perk dependent, like NOED, sounds like a great idea. Of course, the perk would also require a counter. NOED has totems, so the new perk (let's call it Third Chance) would spawn a red shard on the map. Whenever the killer finds it and cleanses it during the match, the hatch doesn't spawn (just like NOED).
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It's still an alternative way of escaping, which is within the lore of the game as well.
I don't see it as a "second chance" I see it as a mechanic that could be improved as what it is meant for... a last resort.
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The same can be said on the survivors part, why should they barely have a chance if any at all depending on the killer to escape just because the other 3 died.
The logic goes both ways and killers don't need a 4k every time they win, it doesn't matter what they brought the last one should have a decent chance at still being able to escape.
All I'm reading off you is "I want free 4k's on won games", and you can't say I'm biased because i want there to be an actual balanced way to open hatch with keys and unlike you i presented an idea for it instead of the lazy "just remove it".
Lastly the last survivor escaping by hatch has always been and will always be fine and fair.
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I’d be 100% fine with this.
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The hatch is unhealthy. Even for survivors. The last survivor usually isn't the one that performed well,but the one who was hiding and searching the hatch once there is only 2 survivors left.
I stopped counting the amount of times where only 1 gen was left, I kept the killer busy and the other survivor just ignored gens and searched for the hatch. This isn't great gameplay for the third survivor. It's boring and stale. Just like slugging the third survivor and searching the hatch/last survivor.
Removing the hatch would solve this.
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Hatch escapes can suck for both survivors and killers but in different ways. For killers they suck because you could be nearing towards the end of the game, you got your 3 gen strat going and you feel pretty good and then somebody pulls a key out of a chest and they all escape through the hatch completely killing momentum. For survivor it sucks because in the same scenario, you're towards the end, down a guy but that's fine if you guys keep up the pressure but NOPE some idiot and their buddy hatch escape together, killer shuts the hatch and you're left to die on your own. Where's the fun in either of those scenarios? It's not like keys are used for anything else. If survivors really don't want to play a match they'll just suicide on the hook.
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Key nerfed? I did not see that, can anyone tell me how will work new key
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Yeah at 2 left they are not going to win, one will die so they play safer. That isn't a good enough reason to remove hatch and games that last an extra 5 minutes or even near that when there are 2 left are rare. As said last survivor hatch escapes are fine. In fact removing the hatch wouldn't even solve this.
still doesn't change the fact that it would make 4k wins wayyy too easy and what's funny is that they can't even reduce gate time to compensate for the killer you would go against or gate spawns since gates themselves are too rng and there isn't a right way to do them due to the large variety of killers we have. edit: Also pretty much all indoor maps have set gate spawns, on lerrys, the game, and hawkens any gate set up is actually too far to effectively patrol so escaping on that against certain killers would almost always happen.
Removing hatch just isn't the correct thing to do for those reasons not to mention that while it would make the killer community happy it would piss off survivor players more since as said last survivor hatch escapes means the killer won regardless. Also before you mention second chance perks or whatever it DOES NOT MATTER in the case of last survivor hatch escapes due to it's nature and the fact that not every damn player runs second chance perks and hatch effects all players.
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So you prefer to keep a stale mechanic, that makes for a boring experience (survivors hiding instead of doing gens and killers slugging) just to prevent that the killer gets a 4k.
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I used to play killer then swf ruined that experience and it feels alot like they're ruining survivor too in many ways any perk I get good with gets nerfed because of they're abusing it
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The change of spawning the hatch later on in the game is a nerf to keys because now you have to complete all gens before you can use it. Yes this would fix the key problem but in games where you team isn't the best now instead of being able to find the hatch before you are the only one left you can only look for it once you are the only one left. I think something that would be interesting if it would only appear once all the gens are complete if a key is in the game if one isn't present in the game then it spawns normally. Helping people that have bad teams have a chance of escaping and nerfing keys.
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like a 7k bp killer offering was made all but useless
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So would my plan of delaying hatch spawn then that one moron can't sit and wait for Hatch I mean they could but unless they put in a blue print which killer sees as well they won't have a clue where to hide and look and risk getting found easier because they are just aimlessly walking around
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True, but that could have been handled better as well IMO (though anything would have been better than leaving it as it was).
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That's reasonable. The biggest problem I have with keys is that they grind the game to a halt. It's insanely boring when survivors stop trying to progress the game and immerse indefinitely to hunt for hatch.
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you DO realize removing hatch will NOT solve that right?
Like they will still just hide.
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You realize that those require you to choose a specific killer, most of which aren't meta, most of which you have to buy. Essentially, that makes them closer to the meta survivor perks then NOED is, but they require you to take an active role, acting instead of reacting, in addition to the fact that only certain killers can use them as opposed to being able to have every single one at once.
Plus, the Iri head is getting nerfed with the Huntress rework that the devs have promised.
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Does everyone seem to forget that there is an achievement tied to 4 survivors escaping through the hatch at once? The change everyone wants can't happen because it would make the platinum unachievable for PlayStation users. And no, BHVR can't afford to change trophies. Skilled Huntress has been 100 downs since DBD released on consoles.
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Of course it will prevent that. Once there is only 1 survivor left the EGC starts. No need to slug.
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