Killers, STOP Expecting a 4K!
For this game to be "balanced" most killer mains are asking to be able to kill 4 survivors most matches...
Even if you get 4 kills HALF of your matches and 2 kills your other matches, that averages out to 3 kills per match. That means 3 out of every 4 survivors won't make it!!!
In what world is that "balanced"?
In solo q, I don't know if our squad makes it out alive even 10% of the time. And in a full squad we maybe make it out 20% of the time.
When you get a killer with certain perks and add-ons, like Freddy, Spirit, even the Hag with her traps, these killers can be virtually impossible to beat.
Then we have killer mains on here whining all day because they are getting t-bagged...
If you aren't getting 2 to 4 kills every match (meaning the game is balanced towards killer) then you absolutely suck.
Of course we should nerf DS, and if we keep the game in the state it's in, n I'm okay, but please, if you are going to nerf anything survivor, nerf the traps of the Hag, nerf Freddy or the Spirit.
Yes we have a problem with q times. That's the only reason why they cater so much to killers. They have to or the game won't survive so I'm okay with it. But killers: a successful match isn't 4k or bust, and again, if you aren't getting 2k or more in most matches, you suck, even my friend who's new to the game can play underpowered killers and get 2 kills each match
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Also while we're at it, can we just take self-care out of the game? And urban evasion? They are okay perks for good survivors, but they destroy most solo q games. I normally play with friends, but it is disgusting how many people who refuse teammate heals to self-care
Nothing better then watching your rando teammates waddling like a penguin through the whole map when the killer isn't nearby, or watching randos run to the corner to self-care against no-ed.
Rants over
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Smells like “git gud” here.
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This shows a remarkable misunderstanding of how the game works; and a very clear one sided mindset that leaves it fairly obvious you have no intention of listening to anything from anyone who doesn't just agree with you or say nerf ____ killer thing.
Rant away though.
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I know I need to get better, sure. My point isn't that we need to nerf all killers, I'm just saying that killer mains need to stop complaining on the forums begging for nerfs. It's ridiculous. The game leans towards killer period. And I think the biggest problem is expectations. Killers either complain because they suck, or they complain because they can't get 4k every match.
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Naa. I'm good with not nerfing killer. Of course I am one-sided. I do play PRIMARILY one side.
My point is not about complaining as a survivor. Or to nerf killers. Just the opposite. My point is that killers come on these forums and online and complain constantly about survivors and their perks, And I simply think the main reason is because they don't get four kills every game. Most games killers average 2 to 4 kills already, seems insane to keep complaining and destroying the game
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You have shown a clear bias and a lack of understanding of even the most basic tenants of the game. Yes, at Rank 20, the game IS Killer-sided. At higher Ranks (or high MMR) it is most decidedly NOT.
Killers, like myself, do not want to be handed a 4K every match. We want to feel like we are ABLE to get a 4K if we play well enough. As it stands, if the Survivors play perfect and the Killer plays perfect, the Killer will almost always lose.
The issue is that most Red Rank Survivors belong is Green Ranks or lower. The pip system for Survivor is hilariously easy to "win" with and couple that with SWF, and you have a ton of players in Red Ranks that do not belong there.
Killers, however, have very little to carry them to Red Ranks. Sure, you could argue that Spirit or Freddy will carry you, but that will only get you so far. Even bad to mediocre Survivors can win against a bad Killer at those Ranks. You have to be at least semi-competent to be in Red Ranks as a Killer.
This creates a strange dichotomy where some matches will be incredibly easy, and others will be impossible. Hopefully, MMR will solve this issue, but I'm not so hopeful after the last disaster with MMR.
Point is, take a perfect Survivor squad and a perfect Killer (say a Legion). The Killer will lose, despite not making any mistakes. If you need further examples, I'd be happy to link you stuff with Marth and his SWF.
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Tell you a fun fact. I play killer in red rank, and I expect to lose. Never dared to even dream of winning or even 4K because I’m not masochist.
I believe many killers here have the same mindset as me.
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''Stop expecting 4k, because.... because just stop it!''
Nah man, I will expect 4k every single game I join because if you lower your expectations you become a joke of a killer who is prone to be bullied. Why should ANYONE expect less than 4k when playing as a killer ?
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The point isn't that they are wanting to improve as killers, to get 4ks, they are wanting consistent nerfs of survivors.
Killers have insane add-ons that combined with perks can make them absolutely unstoppable. BBQ, mixed with several gen regression perks on a freddy, and he teleports to every gen, he can see where everyone is, and when you have to hide your gen goes to 0.
Red ranks are only a small percentage of the game. The majority of players face 3 to 4 deaths match, making this game very killer sided.
I appreciate the feedback and can agree that red rank survivors MAY be able to beat a red rank killer with Freddy+perks, but I rarely see it
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In what world is it balanced if a team that's clearly worse at the game than you, and cannot loop you worth a damn, escapes? How did they earn that? Second chances and predropping pallets? Where's the skill? The effort?
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Well the game expect you to have 4 kills and 9 hooks to get GOLD Devout emblem. So not my fault the game put high expectations :(
joke aside i don't go for kills i go for bbq stacks, much more realisable and you get rewarded for it :)
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I am rank 1 and I am going to expect 4k even with worse killers, just because I know I can usually do it. I also know that really good SWF will probably get away with 2-3 escapes unless I am lucky enough to play strong killer against them, so I am not gonna get mad about it.
It is good to expect 4k, if you want to get better as a killer, but not get down when it doesn't happen.
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Your idea of "balance" is off.
Balance in any PVP game = the better player wins.
If I outskill all my opponents (just theoretically) even a 100% win rate can be balanced.
Making it so I artificially lose to worse players just so a match ends in a 2k no matter how bad they play is not balanced.
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Games get ruined through a few people yelling and complaining on twitter, or forums.
I just know that even in purple ranks, at rank 6, it's pretty certain as a survivor in solo that my team with 90% not make it. And even with teammates I know it's not too much higher.
I'm glad to hear your perspective, most threads I see pop in my Google news feed are from killers complaining, even more then survivors. But maybe I am misjudging
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Maybe because I just want to have fun?
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But the game doesn´t lean towards killers. It´s heavily survivor sided. I´m playing solo in red ranks and i´m not ranking up anymore, because i can´t get enough altruism points before the gates are powered. My last 3 matches have been 4 man escapes.
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Literally your whole reply is about a hypothetical scenario where Freddy with best addons and perks demolishes soloq. You do realize not every killer player will pick Freddy right ?
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There's far more to beating a killer then looping. But I can say the same the other way around. Certain perks make killers near unstoppable. They win with little effort.
I agree though, I'm sure it sucks as a killer when you destroy people and they still all get out
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Eh, not really. If even one person is a decent looper and takes the Killer on a good chase (100ish seconds) and the other last 30 seconds (short chase) then that puts the Killer in a bad spot.
So long as your team does gens while the other is being chased, in that above scenario, Killer loses even with very short chases.
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I'm talking basic statistics.
I understand personally as a killer, if you are better you should be rewarded. But you are ALSO facing higher ranked survivors. Who should also be better.
If an average game ends in 3 to 4 deaths, or even 2 to 4 deaths, the game leans towards killer. Even green and purple ranks still tend to lean towards killer in my experience, especially if they run any decent perks.
Again my point isn't too say the game is terrible or need to be fixed. My point is simply that we need to stop complaining about every survivor perk, trying to artificially make the game even easier for killers. Except for ds, which needs that nerf!
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in this game you dont win for beign better than your oponents, because this game is not balanced towards that, in fact is not even balanced.
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Maybe your experience is different then mine. But a good killer doesn't often get looped for 100 seconds, even against a good survivor.
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The average game ends in 2.66 deaths, iirc. Those stats are old though, and there is pretty much zero context behind them.
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Haha, that's funny.
A good Survivor will have Dead Hard. A good Survivor will know how to run tiles in a way that forces the Killer to eat pallets. A good Survivor will EASILY loop a good Killer for 100 seconds simply because the Killer can't do anything about it.
But, let's say you are right, let's say the Survivors only loop the Killer for 30 seconds each, which is EXTREMELY low. You could almost get more time by running straight. Even in that unrealistic scenario, the Killer still loses. 3 gens will pop before he has 3 hooks. The Survivors have completed 60% of their Objective by the time the Killer completes 25% of theirs.
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That's my point. For the game to be truly balanced, since out of the playerbase we should have an equal amount of talent between killer and survivor, we should see roughly 2.5 or 2.6 would show a lean towards killer. If those are updated statistics, I think it just shows that we shouldn't nerf survivors more, to the point of making it easier for killers. If we nerf any survivors, it has to be at the expense of Freddy, Spirit, Hag, etc.
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Give me back old Ruin, old Undying, old moris and old Pop, and then we'll speak about killers whining for no reason. I guess survivors just didn't want to get good and deal with these things.
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name them. name the unstoppable perks.
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2.6 means that it is still an average of 2 Survivors dying per game.
The slight skew likely comes from new players who do not understand the game yet.
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(he means Monstrous Shrine)
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Honestly, I'm happy with a 2k, but if I can get a 4k, I'm sure as hell gonna get my 4k. I had my fair share of whiny, entitled kids over the years and had to listen to so many complaints in endgame chat (even if I gave the last one hatch because I felt bad), so no more free escapes from me.
I'm even going to slug if Survivors decide to "bully" me and put on NOED if I feel like it, for a nice and salty endgame chat. :)
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I swear, i´m going to spill my milk if he names Undying Ruin or something like that.
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You mentioned queue time but I wait a long time as killer too. I have zero idea what the hold up is with the wait times. And you are correct, this game has swung killer-sided hard in the last 2 yrs. And yet they still complain on here constantly that they don't get to 4k every single match so 'it's unfair'.QQ
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Swf stop expecting 4 escapes
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Ruin/Undying, Retribution, HG, Thrill (as a build)
With Piggy going: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAn7baRbhx4
Truly unstoppable...
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Ah yes biased arguments and dbd go together very well
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It would be balanced if both sides had equal chances of getting either a 4k or 4 man escape.
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So you wanna get rid of a perk because most survivors don't know how to use it properly.
Pfft can't be me.
It's as if there are millions of tutorials to use self care more effectively
Hah, like that ever existed
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As a killer main, I agree. I consider 2k "par". 3-4k meant you had a great game.
Now does that mean the DS nerf is wrong? No. It was a perk with too much loaded in it. Its STILL very good, and survivors will want to run it as a top choice.
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Killer mains are toxic in this game. They want it easy that's why they only and exclusively play OP killers. They 3 to 4k most of the times in red rank but they call their preferred killers "balanced" (spirit, huntress, PH, Gunslinger, Hag etc...).
When devs release stats showing the kill rate is 70%+, the killers lobby come here yelling : stats doesn't mean anything blabla.
But then they see that stats shows nurse at 60% kill rate and they use those stats to ask for a buff :). While we all know that playing nurse on console (with a gamepad) is impossible... tanking the stats for her and all killers that rely on aiming.
A balanced game would mean a kill rate of 2k for the highest rank. What i see playing soloQ is that the kill rate is way way way higher than that 50%.
In red ranks, the escape rate is 25% lol... it's a ######### joke.
An average of 2k should be a good game for both side. getting 3k/4k should be hard and only the best killers whould get these.
We don't need to have plenty of noob killers in red rank that don't even play, they just camp and tunnel for the most part. The others are using broken killers.
Do the devs know how frustrating it is to play against a killer that has no counterplay ? Like you know facing this killer, if the player is average to good you won't be able to give a good chase. Well it is so frustrating that survivors suicide all the time.
Major wrong behaviors in a game : camping, tunneling, DC, suicides, teamkill (in FPS) is a sign of a terrible game design. There will always be this kind of bhvr in video games as humans are playing them but when it is the majority of the community that mimic the same patern and when you see suicide after suicide, camp after camp in every trials you play, the natural move from a smart and good company would be to fix those issues by balancing/reworking the game (remove the possibility of tunnel/camp early) and reworking the killers that cause problems.
The solution is not to implement a ban system lol... Next step will be to ban suicides or to auto struggle to avoid the possibility to suicide ? So then you will have AFK survivors in every trials that refuse to play and move because the killer is not fair or because it's an OP killer.
Then next step ? AutoDC/Ban AFK players ? Then players won't play the game anymore.
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Conisistent 100% win rate should push you to the 0.01% of top players which then will bring your win rate to 50% in a perfectly balanced pvp game.
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I never play survivor. But I have a full understanding of what they go through when I play.
Do you do the same for the killer? Probably not.
You want them to think about the survivors like they're just players; well I'd like the same for killers.
But because we're "killers" we're awful people that MUST want you to suffer. (Sarcasm)
I have never thought I needed a 4 k unless I needed to rank up - which I do now simply because I'd like to face off against my favorite youtubers.
There's plenty of rude and mean killers in this game that just want it only their way; but not all of us. :L
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Ah yes another discussion that shows why the devs should never release stats again.
Because what do kills stats say?
People getting facecamped? Because then of course the min. is 2 kills.
Killer gets 8 hooks but didn't killed anyone? Well he lost according to these stats
These stats dont say anything about balance. The only statistics that maybe can show balance are hook stats.
Like why do you think bubba and pig have fairly high killrate? Because they are noobstompers.
But hey these stats only give survivor something to complain about on the forums.
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Don't try to explain how stats works to those guys, they understand nothing. I have tried for months they still don't understand. At this point it's a problem of diploma and courses, nothing you can do about it.
They don't understand that red rank stats, taking in account 100 thousands trials would negate any "special events" as one killer winning 100% of its trials as on those thousands and thousands trials there will also be some killers loosing all their trials which would make it balanced in the end.
They think it's possible to throw a dice 1 million times and get the number six 100% of the time.
And if they understand this, then we would have to explain them that skill repartition would follow the "Normal Distribution model" even in exclusive red rank trials... Well never ending stories. That's what happens in democraty, when you let everyone and anyone talking while they haven't any knowledge on the subject.
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I have played killer as well, from rank 20 to rank 1. PH/Demo and Trapper mostly. Only SWF (like 1 game out of 10) were giving me hard times in red ranks and still i could get 2k...
I don't see where it is not killer sided, explain me ?
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I agree you should always aim high
and this isn’t directed at you but when you don’t 4k don’t come on the forums like many do and complain the game is unbalanced.
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My breath does feel wasted, definitely. There has to be some form of rebuttle for this cess pool you know? Like the Jedi vs. the Sith. I've noticed that it's the same names, same misconstrued information being regurgitated here and you got to stop the spread. Like watch me right now I'll make a 'killer good survivor bad' post here and get 20 upvotes. I do the same on reddit and I'll get downvoted to oblivion. There is a cult following here for sure.
Loved how you touched on political economics and statistics. You could show thousands of trials plotted in a binomial distribution showing that spirit and freddy sit on the outer quartile of kill rates. No but dude those killer players must be better players than every survivor player in their ranks.
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Bad survivors are not a sign that the game is Killer sided.
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No, i'm a really good survivor but i'm an average killer (i mean i don't master their abilities) who knows how to apply pressure and have a good map control.
Once you know you have to play to end up in a 3 gens situation... you win all the time.
Game is killer sided. All my friends (around 3000h each of them) that play 50/50 surv/killer tells that globally it's killer sided.
We all agree that Doctor, Trapper, Blight, Billy, Clown, Oni, Demo, Legion, Plague, Ghost, Pig, Myers are balanced.
And other killers it depends :
- Wraith is nothing special, we admit he is weak
- Nurse is bad and OP : in bad hands she is terrible, in good hands there is no counter at all
- Huntress is balanced without one shot hatchet
- Twins is boring and OP, the map control is way too strong, Victor's hitboxes are broken (fixing the hitbox might make it balanced as it would be harder to play)
- PH is OP
- Booba is balanced if he doesn't camp and tunnel otherwise it's OP and not fun
- Hag is the most OP killer
- Freddy has slightly too much map control but is fairly balanced, his hitbox must be fixed though
Do you know that t he best killer mains in this game are bored to play killer as there is no challenge anymore ? There is literally 0 survivor/SWF good enough to outplay them ? Some of them even stopped to play killer...
And take the best survivors (Ayrun/Noob3 for exemple), they can't outplay killers on a regular basis in red rank games. Check their youtube, most of the clips are against purple/green killers lol... And they are considered gods at this game. And they are pissed with the state of the game, some of them stopped to play DbD.
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Heh. I was going to give you a more thorough treatment but I decided against it. Other people can respond to your arguments. I'm just going to respond to the title of your thread this time. Killers don't "expect" anything. Like anyone else we seek to EARN a 4K. That isn't the game catering to us, nor random luck. A 4K comes from the Killer working hard to get it, and/or the Survivors screwing up and giving it away.
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/940950420
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/936878761
Pretty much the experience i'm having with the game right now =) unless i'm never matched against green/purple rank killers. So no, it's not easy for Ayrun lol... Even for his SWF it's not that easy.
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