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Why are killers expected to have skill but not survivors?
Comments
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My point wasn’t that survivors have no skill, its that the survivors often aren’t expected to have much skill. Many maps can carry survivors especially when combined with exhaustion perks.
Evading a killer around an L wall T wall until both windows block shows a skill gap between killer and survivor. Holding W through a map like Lerys for 3 gens does not.
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So survivors aren't a team then,got it.
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Survivor is definitely the easier role, but some parts of it still take skill. It’s not as brain dead as some people choose to believe. Killers can be carried by maps too which is why they often bring map offerings as they know they’ll have an advantage. It is what it is. I’d say that killer has the higher learning curve but both sides require skill.
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Solos are pretty capable of basic team interactions, what's your point?
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That's your problem and it doesn't mean the game should have less skill demand for you.
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Just admit you want easy wins
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Yeah, cool story bro and I'm no perk 10k hours survivor main
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Ok, waiting for your 50 streak stream, "nurse main".
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>I don't play this game enough
That's it, you don't have enough experience to talk about things that are fair or not.
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Some parts of survivor take skill, good decision making is probably more important for the role but you can lack both those things and get by with meta perks, bad map design, weaker killers, stupid matchmaking etc
The downside to nerfing ruin even though I agreed with it was the removal of any skill required to do the main survivor activity at all, even if chases now generally require more since map changes (abominations like the meat plant rework notwithstanding)
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Nice fantasy world you're living in
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Well play survivor and see for yourself how much skill does a good pallet loop require.
Turning around a pallet 3 times is noobish but finding your way between pallets/windows to hold the killer as long as possible by using as few pallets as possible is not that easy.
Survivors able to play like this are like top 1%. I mostly play duoQ and soloQ and i meet 1 player like this every 50 games... I rarely say : this random is good and gives good chases.
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Why so mad? :))
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Just don't cry, "nurse main" =)
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Some people say using Dead Hard takes skill, which is half true.
Most people use Dead Hard for distance. You literally press a button for 3 metres of extra distance, what's skillful on pressing a button to extend a chase?
On the other hand, reacting to a hit, dead harding at the perfect time to get to a safe spot takes alot more skill, but most people dead hard for distance when the Killer isn't even in lunge range and can't do anything to negate the gained distance from the Survivor, which like I said takes no skill at all. You literally just press E to outplay.
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But there is skill to countering a good huntress as survivor that’s where the skill is
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How are bad teammates his problem?
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I don't need arguments to argue with nonsense =)
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It is he who has problems with bad teammates and cries for reducing skill demand for survivors.
I personally don't have such problems when playing survivors, as I don't rely on my team in the first place and most of my survivor games have been quite successful
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Tbf if you’re looping a killer and only one persons on gens there’s not much I can do to prevent that
Or if I get farmed when I make the mistake of not running DS
These things are completely out of my control
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Why would anyone like about having 8k hours? If I had 8k hours in dbd I'd probably keep it to myself
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That's your problem if you play the way things are out of your control.
You can always be the one doing gens, while killers chases your teammates.
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What if the killer comes over to my gen and finds me? I can’t politely ask him to stop chasing me
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And there you go avoiding the talk =)
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Terror music exists for a purpose.
I personally run builds like dance with me + lithe and fill 2 other slots with spine chill/iron will.
Even if I get found, I just drop the chase whenever I get the moment.
It usually works, unless I'm dealing with 4 tracking perks doctor.
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Yeah and thats really what I’m getting at. Maps and perks carry survivors so much and it inflates egos. These people never have to learn about good decision making, and the times when they do they blow it and throw the game for the team.
In fairness I played survivor recently and it reminds me this can apply to killer a little bit because you see how many killers are carried by being gifted baby survivors who they can tunnel out within 90 seconds. Then we have trusty old NOED.
In general though maps seem to be the biggest issue and second chance perk stacking swf which carries a lot of players.
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Survivors need way more. Too much is expected from all 4. All it takes is one mistake against a killer and it can be all over. Killers have perks that make their game infinitely easier while survivors are punished. Maps are usually so small and devoid of loops that it's common someone is dead 10 secs into a match. Killer is definitely easier.
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That is such a small fraction of survivor gameplay. That's like me saying I play 5% killer and can moonwalk because it's easy to do. What?
I guarantee I can down you quicker than you can down me. I'm positive you have more to learn on survivor.
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Bias.
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Why do you think Doctors using Ruin, Lullaby, Undying and Unnerving Presence burn offerings for Lery’s or Hawkins? Or Scratch Mirror Myers going to Lery’s, Hawkins or Midwich? Killers like Oni, Billy and Huntress burning offerings for open maps etc... It’s because those maps make the game easier for them. And I’d argue that in certain scenarios it carries them. I’ve gone against killers who weren’t good during chases but ended up winning because of their perks / the map offering they brought. Especially against solo players like myself who can’t communicate with the rest of the team.
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No offence meant :p what's your devotion level btw?
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I like how this whole post just became an argument between two users and the only actually good reply is the first one
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I find it funny that people complain about the skill level of anything in a game when they don't realize that a low skill-floor mechanic is a MUST HAVE for a game to thrive.
This is why things like Blue-shell, noob tube, and Bubba exist. You need low skill-floor things to give entry-level players a chance against people who are experienced.
No matter how much you rail against them and complain till you're blue in the face, designers will continue to put these things in.
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Alright alright. No arguments there. It's up to you essentially if you get the hit on Nurse rather than the survivor. I also main her.
That wasn't meant to be a killer competition. I more meant that you're really taking away credit from survivor gameplay where it's due. The name you mentioned is a great example of perfect micromanagement of survivor. That isn't easy lol
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The dudes dealing with a scandal right now isn't he? Doubt he'll recover from it. Terrible publicity
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Yeah, survivor definitely has it's own skill levels, but I think the learning curve between the roles is insanely different in difficulty. Killer takes months, while you can be looping red rank killers in a week or so as survivor. When learning survivor I really only found 2-3 levels of personal skill advancement as a survivor:
- Level 1: Hug walls and objects being looped; don't drop pallets early; learn good positioning. (Is this even skill? more like knowledge.)
- Level 2: Learn how to string various tiles together to create strong loops.
- Level 3: Master timing of vaults and mind games, depending on the tile.
But, without those skills there are handicaps that give survivors an adequate buffer that they can squeeze by on, even if they don't play well. Like, having sixteen perks for an entire team, with power for individual survivor perks rivaling the power of individual killer perks - mostly second chance perks. Things like unlimited fast vaulting; fast vaulting while standing still next to pallets; smaller collision capsules; stackable second chance perks. These handicaps allow survivors without even basic skills to win against killers that are more skilled than they are... basically, boosted by the developers.
Honestly, the fact that these handicaps remain in the game at higher ranks/MMR is what creates imbalances in my mind. Remove the handicaps, or limit them on survivor at a certain point and that would require survivors to learn the above mentioned skills to win. Just like killers have to develop certain skills to win.
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Ok but like what about when survivors all escape and the killer loses. Than its not that they are salty its they gen rushed me or the gen speeds are too fast.
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You're advocating racism/homophobia and bigotry. Careful. He definitely deserves what he's dealing with. It's not a slip of the tongue like Pewdiepie. It just wasn't meant to be shown to everyone.
He is very skilled at survivor though.
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I wonder if the people who say that realize that the supposed "skill checks" on generators require no skill to hit.
In reality its just annoyed little kids who are mad they got caught, outplayed, or out mind gamed.
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If you think optimal looping and playing around red stain mindgames doesn't take skill you don't play against good killers. Yes, looping is easy to learn, but optimal looping and avoiding mindgames actually takes a lot of knowledge of killer tricks and fast reactions.
I still have massive room for improvement as survivor, yet more than half the killers on the roster I've more or less hit the skill ceiling as its so low.
The simple fact is that a lot of killers are very simple and easy. They might not be strong, but theres minimal skill required to master them. Ghostface and Shape are perfect examples, Wraith is another one. Extroardinarily shallow.
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The idea killer is stronger than survivor is false. If we are talking about decent survivors and a decent killer
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If you compare Nurse or other killer that takes skill vs survivor. Sure
But something like clown or freddy or bubba is way easier than playing survivor. You can turn your brain off and roll your face on the keyboard.
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Those killers do take some skill to do well with, just less so than others. E.g a god tier nurse takes a lot more skill and time to get to that level with than a god tier Freddy.
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Your looking at the game as a 1v1. Also if the survivor has the right set of titles they can waste minutes of a killers time without going down. I'd argue a single knowledgeable and skilled survivor beats a killer anyday
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If you follow a single survivor for minutes you belong in yellow rank. It's also highly probable that killer doing this lack proper looping techniques which make it possible for the survivor to loop for a long time.
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I've been rank 1 survivor, and I almost never look behind me in a chase. Out turns out you can be a potato and still rank up as a survivor: do 2 gens and get 2 unhooks and you'll pip up, at pretty much every level.
Those things are essentially zero risk, and the only thing you have to do to achieve then in most rounds is get there before the other survivors.
I've also been rank 1 as killer. At red ranks, if you're not hitting with your power often, ending chases quickly (and preventing healing), getting at least 9 hooks and 3 kills, you won't pip up.
That's why killers want a 4k. Because the bar killers are measured against is much higher than the survivors' bar.
Moreover, survivors get to feel like they, personally, won if they escape, regardless of how their team did.
As killer, I don't get to feel like I won if the only kill I got was a random lucky down, or if I guard the guy I put on the hook after the gates open. And if I start thinking it was a pretty good match where I just got outplayed a bit, toxic survivors make sure to tell me how bad I am.
As survivor, I can feel great running in with a 3-man sweat squad at full health to rescue that last guy on the hook, knowing full well we can take turns body blocking and not one of us is at risk, and if he happens to have NOED then the reason we failed is because the killer is bad at the game.
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Survivors complain alot, but people like Spirit, or Freddy, actually do require a noticeable amount of skill, unlike bubba or something.
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This has to be bait.
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Tournament squads do not win because they outskill the killer. They win because the game mechanics literally hand them the game.
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