every or nearly every reasons why the trickster is a bad killer
0 gen pressure,
when a huntress is getting close, you leave the gen, when you see Myers not too far, you leave the gen, same with ghostface, deathslinger you leave it, any killer that have an ability to cause you trouble the longer they look at you the more dangerous they become so you leave the gen to avoid getting hit, trickster isn't totally needed, his knives DON'T interupt you, he could throw 16 knives at you from the distance and if your gen is 95 you could finish it before going down since they don't interupt you, you can interupt an action with a clown bottle, a hatchet injures you, a shot pulls you to the deathslinger, getting stalked puts you at risk, this guy you can tank 15 blades before going down and finishing your gen, no pressure.
No snowball effect
huntress can attack many survivors at the same time, spreading the damage quickly, deathslinger can somewhat do that, plague you can puke on 1 survivor and leave them, you already did your pressure, with trickster you have to 100% focus all your attention to one survivor until they at least lost 1 health state, you can't multi target in any way until they take damage, he's purely and only solo target, even with deathslinger you can hit 1 and shot another, it's 2 injuries in a shot time, he can take twice the time to injure just 1 survivor.
No power pressure
if the survivor manage to loop the trickster just for a few seconds because of long walls or houses or anything, any progress you had with your power is lost and so you have to hit them again to get it back, with ghostface you can save it for later, you either totally focus and land blades quickly or by the time you remove a health state you could have M1 instead, or you lose all your progress and you applied no pressure and the other 3 survivors kept working the whole time.
110% movement speed
His power is extremely far away form being too lethal to justify him being a 110% killer, he's a 1v1 killer, even more than deathslinger, no reason at all why he should be 110%.
Reloading will cost the progress
you had few blades left and managed ot land a few but aaawww break line of sight and now you have to reload even tho you were 1 blade hit away from a health state and they fully heal from the blade hits and you have to hit them again
M1 remove the laceration
you managed to hit a few survivors that were close together with few knives, one is now close enough, hit them, well now you wasted maybe 12 knives on them and also the time it took you to throw them and it could have been time you could have saved by doing a M1 instead.
YES those who will play the trickster a lot will use his power at the right time, but he is still overall a very bad awfully weak killer.
Comments
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Some nice points
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You clearly put a lot of effort into this, I respect that.
You know who won't listen? BVHR. Their opinion matters more than ours, sadly. +1 but sadge anyway.
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happy?
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lol Very.
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Is the first time that I read good argument against this killer no only hate because you don´t like him, and maybe you have reason, I didn´t see his power in that way good points. I like his power dynamics but maybe he is weak after all. without engine pressure, he will be another plague.
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He's gonna be played solely for memes. That's the significance of him getting released with zero buffs since the ptb.
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I think we're gonna see a major steamrolling on release day with the Trickster
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I agreee with you. Sadly BHVR doesnt give a F about that. They will probably just give him some unnecessary buffs and move on. Its not the first Killer that is weak and staying around for months/years like that. Cought LEGION Cought
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Don't forget the twins, still beyond me you can drop pallets and vault while victor is on your back
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Thanks and I know
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It's sad because most of his issues could be fixed with small changes but nope, gotta nerf his only good addon and not make it basekit so he doesn't feel unique at all.
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Also the fact that we will have to wait MONTHS for him to get buffed.
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I think they’re fed up of survivors complaining so they want this killer to be almost completely useless. Maybe he will receive a slight buff over the months but the days of having even half-decent killers are long gone.
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He is a "
FUN" killer designed for "fun" what ever your definition of that is.0 -
They REALLY should just remove the recoil penalty for throwing knives. It just makes having to attack with him really annoying and it's not like he'll be super overpowered without it. Besides I think it's silly to get recoil throwing knives. Just pretend you're trickster right now and start throwing your knives. Do you feel your torso recoil upwards mimicing his throwing? I don't think so.
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Alright, let me try to provide rebuttals for these...
0 gen pressure:
How often are you trying to interrupt generators at 95%? Cause that doesn't happen to me all that often. Even if Trickster does end up in that position, he can just... walk about 22 meters in the time it takes to throw 16 knives. He can just bat you off the generator if he really needs to interrupt you.
No snowball effect:
Fun fact about Trickster, he can throw 8 knives before Huntress can fully charge a single hatchet. More fun facts, Deathslinger's whole Shoot, Reel, Stab, Wipe weapon, Reload routine takes longer than Trickster throwing 16 knives. Sure, all those knives do need to be heading at the one Survivor, but the guy can get those knives out really fast.
No power pressure:
15 seconds. It takes 15 seconds before laceration starts falling off. That's a fairly long time. If the Survivor is able to loop Trickster for that long without taking a knife hit... you shouldn't be using your knives there. Why do you think Trickster is the shortest ranged killer? Its because that way he can pull off normal M1 mind games at loops where Huntress, Slinger, and Plague would all be too tall to do that. I am fully expecting this guy to need to do a mix of slapping people with his bat and throwing knives and not be Huntress who may as well always throw a hatchet.
M1 remove the laceration:
Easy solution... don't M1 someone who's close to max laceration. You have 60 of your little neon throwing knives. Running out at a bad time is unlikely and honestly if you do run out of ammo at a bad time... that's on you. Especially since you might be able to pull out Main Event and have infinite ammo for a bit.
Now how about we talk about something that Trickster can do that Huntress and Deathslinger wish they could?
When you take a Huntress Hatchet to the back... you know that the next one isn't coming for... probably at least 2 seconds. That means you can milk the post hit speed boost for all its worth and she won't be able to punish you for it. Similar story against Deathslinger. You get shot and reeled while healthy and you can just book it after he stabs you because he's gonna be a 110% M1 only killer until he reloads and cuts his movespeed to 60% for ~2.5s. Now what happens if you get injured by knives? Well... the dude has 60 of the things in his pockets and can rapid fire them. He continues to be a threat even after his knives get you injured. If you decided to try to just hold W away from him and don't get behind something... you'd get 6 or more additional knives in your back before your speed boost runs out. You simply can't milk your post injury speed boost because his power doesn't allow it.
In addition to that... all 3 Killers get slowed by using their power. Guess who gets slowed the least... and has 2 add-ons to reduce how much he gets slowed even more? That's right, Trickster. Using his power loses him significantly less distance than Huntress or Deathslinger.
That is what Trickster has over Huntress and Deathslinger. With Trickster, the killer can be absolutely relentless in ways that those two simply can't. Now will that be enough to make him decent? I have literally no idea. I've generally decided that trying to guess how balance will shake out ahead of time to be incredibly difficult and a waste of time. However it bothers me to no end that seemingly no one can see the parts of Trickster's power that are undeniably better than Huntress or Deathslinger.
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I think that bhvr doesn't focus on the power of the killer being strong or weak, but rather being fun to play as and somewhat interesting to play against. The trickster was designed as a fun killer to play, in my opinion. This way, the bhvr problem is slowly going away. The bhvr problem is: if they release a strong killer, say spirit, the community will call the game pay to win. The best survivor perks are usually available for free, at least on pc, because they don't want this game to be pay to win. Even tho that's not the case with killers, keep in mind that the strongest killer in the game is free, and doesn't need slowdown to win. So you can't argue that the game is pay to win, since the strongest ######### are already free. That's why they focus on making dlc characters and perks simply fun, so the worst people can say is that they release weak killers, and they can say that dlcs are optional and designed to add a bit more fun into the game
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Its quite fitting that the worst looking killer is actually the worst in the game. Makes sense. He should be a survivor
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Lmfao imagine not giving a single ######### about getting stabbed with knives until the eight one hits you.
Kinda dumb.
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To be fair it probably won't take 16 knifes to down someone.
Just like deathslinger more often then not get's a sneaky m1 hit into a gunshot this guy will most likely play the same.
And 8 knifes sounds a lot more reasonable. He won't be strong but I don't think he will be as pathetic as a lot of people seem to think.
It's kind of weird. Get a high wall loop and he's can't do anything. Don't get it and you're screwed
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"you managed to hit a few survivors that were close together with few knives, one is now close enough, hit them, well now you wasted maybe 12 knives on them and also the time it took you to throw them and it could have been time you could have saved by doing a M1 instead."
I have not played or looked at the killer so I cant comment on anything you said, but this specific part bothers me a little, it is completely part of the game's learning curve that killers need to learn when to use and when NOT to use their powers, its fundamental to becoming good with one
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I Love this point as it also puts up his strengths as this post put down his very true weaknesses. Though I do see his main problem as despite being able to be relentless he still waste time chasing and has no way to get around the map quicker, in fact it's slower. If they buff his movement speed then I'd put him at an estimated higher level than plague and deathslinger
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As i have said before he is literally just a weaker deathslinger.
Both suffer from the exact same things and both have an oppressive power that if the player is good will end up downing you but deathslinger ends chases faster, the only thing trickster has over deathslinger is he is hard to bodyblock against... kinda.
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What he is trying to say here is that he has no pressure when it comes to multiple survivors besides m1'ing them.
It's not a learning thing it's just he can't really do much like the only good option is to either hit one then fully commit to the other since you can't use your power on multiple survivors it just takes too long to injure them and the laceration decays pretty quickly.
Unless survivors body block he literally can't use his power on multiple survivors, best he can do is go into main event get a down and then go to the next survivor but with how long it takes to down a survivor anyone nearby probably won't be nearby anymore.
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Trickster's knives don't take that long to injure though. If you ignore his stacking fire rate buff (which helps him in this case), he raises knives in 0.35 seconds and throws 1 knife per 0.33 seconds. That means that without the stacking buff, he throws 8 knives in 2.99 seconds. With it, its even less. I'm not sure how much because I'm not exactly sure how it works. For context, Huntress takes 3 seconds to fully charge a hatchet.
If you decide to try to stick a gen when Trickster has chased your buddy off, after that ~3s injury... Trickster can turn around and injure you in less than 2.64 seconds assuming he hasn't lowered his knives because his knives have no charge time, no weapon wipe animation, and no cool down. Granted this does need some pretty good accuracy, but it doesn't start getting significantly longer/slower unless the Trickster is managing an accuracy of 50% or less... at which point you probably have a bad Trickster.
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That's assuming you have a line of sight the entire time, you land every knife, and the survivors are close.
You're often not working with those conditions especially with his recoil which i don't even know why it's a thing.
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I remember when people said deathslinger was gonna be a bad killer. Just a worse version of huntress ect, ect. Nobody gave credit to blighty boy they all said he was gonna suck to. We shall see.
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"he can throw 8 knives before Huntress can fully charge a single hatchet"
That's it's you hit every single one fo them, you might need 20 or more, with huntress it's 1, and you already applied pressure/damage.
"15 seconds. It takes 15 seconds before laceration starts falling off. That's a fairly long time. If the Survivor is able to loop Trickster for that long without taking a knife hit... you shouldn't be using your knives there."
What if you were using them and they reach a safe loop location like a house or anything that would make you hard to hit your knives? with deathslinger even in those tight loops with a 110 killer you can hopefully make a quick scope to get a hit and with huntress maybe have the right angle to hit the very end of the survivor for a hit, do that 8 times with trickster, good luck, just be a 110 and break the pallet until they already reached another safe or somewhat safe loop.
"Easy solution... don't M1 someone who's close to max laceration"
no ######### sherlock, why waste time throwing blades at them to then M1 instead to continue throwing blades,
What I meant is you can't save up damage you caused with your blades if there's multiple survivors, there's 3 on the same gen and you have to completely focus one of them only, you can't hit one of them with 4 blades and same for the other and then get the third one, you simply wasted time throwing blades at the other 2 since they will recover from what you did, if the laceration meter wouldn't decrease it would be a good play, but the fact you lose it if you don't focus those you've hit, and hitting them would remove it, that's what i meant by it remove the laceration meter, if it would keep the build up you made, it would be great.
And about your huntress and deathsligner argument,
when you get hit by a hatchet yes you won't get hit by another one just yet but sometimes you run into walls and or she's right in your face and so the speed burst gives you nothing at all in that time and she simply M1 you, and even when you run away if a huntress is good enough she can land a second hatchet easily if there isn't too much blocker her POV, and with deathslinger this is why you run reload add-ons and also STBFL, you shot and hit, recover faster, reload faster and shot again, if you play properly with him you can shot twice and hit twice a survivor in like 7-8 seconds, ending the chase immediately, Trickster absolutely CANNOT do that in any way unless they run in a straight line and into nothing, yes if you are right in front of them you can land your 16 blades easily but it's more time consuming than the other 2,
yes he is the least slowed down killer in the other 2 but it doesn't change the fact he need to land more hits than the other 2 and if there's a lot of trees or wall blocking your knives, what are you gonna do about it but waste your knives and time and keep trying to hit them when they are further away now, with huntress you need 1 opening for a hit, and same with deathslinger, just that one opening to shot them, the fact he is the least slowed down while using his power won't benifit him most of the time.
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even more relevant now
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