If you still think the Clown's antidote is bad, then you're just not using it correctly.
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I don’t mean to come off as aggressive. Trying to educate, not come for blood.
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But I have to agree that the rework was a success. My performance with Clown improved significantly, despite already performing very well with him before the rework.
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Agreed. It's much more satisfying to get downs with his antidotes. Rework looks like garbage at a glance, but when it's in action, man it's fun.
Also I think Clown mains are pretty nice people. (I'm not a Clown main but he is a killer I play every now and then, like Trapper, Nurse, and Demo) I don't think they intended to sound aggressive on the forums, probably just trying to share their opinions. It's normal to get aggressive sometimes, I guess.
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Clown can also throw ahead of survivors, Always affect them no matter if their awake, Has a bigger area of effect so it slows for longer and can speed himself up now
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Definitely a C tier killer now and 100% better than pig Myers trapper and current wraith
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I just don’t think Clown is good and provides extremely boring gameplay on both sides. It’s just “drop pallet early and move to the next loop” for the survivor and “chuck bottle and kick the pallet that the survivor inevitably drops early” for the Clown. He’s just personally not fun for me.
You have killers who can teleport, go through walls, go invisible, have insta-downs, use a harpoon, throw hatchets, etc...and what does Clown do? Chuck bottles that slightly inconvenience the survivor.
He’s just a Freddy that can’t teleport or have any sort of map pressure :/
Sorry I just don’t like Clown’s gameplay.
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If survivors are complaining about the killer then that killer is in a good spot. Who complains about Clown? No one.
The antidote is a bit fun to have and with Cigar box survivors have a hard time to hide, fun combo. Overall he needed more, even if he is not super bad of course but no one is saying that.
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Those who admit the weakness in himself is strong. If you never admit the weakness, you’ll never be strong.
People say clown is bad does not mean disrespect. They wish he can be better. Do you want to leave him be at current state, or do you want devs to buff him?
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Funny that you say he's just a Freddy even though Freddy ripped off Clown's power with his rework, and he ripped off Hag as well by being able to teloport although he can't do it as much as Hag can.
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He's fine chase wise as is right now, the only problem he still has is he can't get from point A to point B because he's not someone like Blight. I always wanted for Clown to have a bottle that he drinks that makes him go super fast for map mobility, but didn't get that sadly. For some reason the devs are very hesitant on giving certain killers no map mobility, and the only solution to help them is to make maps smaller. The only changes I'd make to Clown right now is to give him Sticky Soda Bottle as basekit, buff the invigorated effect by a little bit, get rid of that stupid grunt noise he makes when he vaults, and make his ultra rares actually useful instead of being garbage.
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The antidote definitely made Clown stronger, but by how much I can't say as I no longer play him as much since the release of Blight. I did mention in an older post that I would be happy with whatever they gave Clown as I found his gameplay too simple. The antidote does add more complexity to his kit and for that I am happy as I said I would be. However, I would be lying if I said it isn't a bit underwhelming.
A long time ago I brainstormed a second ability for Clown that would give him some map pressure while not giving him increased mobility or lethality in chases (for most instances that is). Compared to that idea and a couple others that people have posted his antidote isn't as creative as I hoped.
As you said, its also disappointing that they didn't remove his grunt when vaulting or redo both his ultra rares. I seriously despise RHPF, its one of the addons that tilt me the most.
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Freddy can do everything Clown can do but better. His traps slow down survivors for a longer period of time (without Clown using add-one of course), can teleport and have way better map pressure, and has semi stealth when survivors fall into the dream world. Freddy just has it all. I just think Clown is discount Freddy personally.
Maybe Freddy did “rip off” Clown but he can still do it better than Clown.
I don’t like either of their playstyles however because it doesn’t suit me.
I’m sorry but so but there are so many killers better than Clown.
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I love Clown. Always have. I never thought he was bad but he definitely needed buffs and changes. The problem is the antidote is not enough. Its a pure buff and does help sure, its not useless or bad, just not enough. The TRUE buff to the Clown was his reload speed.
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When you add up how much that one bottles adds to total reloads throughout the match where a normal tonic would have done just fine, and the time spent waiting for it to activate, the effect is extremely minimal. This isn't conjecture its fact, people have done the math.
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Even the reload speed has an issue. You lost about .5 seconds to the toggle buffer for the bottles.
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To anyone who still says Clown is a relatively bad killer,
It depends - In the grand scheme of things yes he is bad. However in a 1 on 1 chase he is strong - This has always been his thing. It all boils down to the downtime he has while reloading from a combination of the reload speed and the movement speed he gets while reloading and yes - The movement speed while reloading makes a big difference on Clown's impact on the game compared to other killers.
Is Clown a bad killer? In some regards yes but he has his strengths - The buffs were nice but again didn't really push him up the totem poll because again nothing really changed for him. He just became slightly better at what he was already good at. The buffs didn't improve any weakness he had at all. The antidote has its uses but you'll primarily be using the tonic. Not to say the antidote is useless but it's a situational part of the power which is fine.
In regards to antidote being situational - It really is - What angle do you approach a tile? Where are you throwing from? Where is the survivor when you're throwing? All of these things and more determine how effective the antidote is where as the tonic you don't have to worry too much about this. It's all about consistency with his power. The antidote does not give consistent results because there are so many factors to play into it - The tonic however does give consistent results. Not to mention if you use the antidote you're essentially using twice as many bottles in a single chase - In those niche situations you will get a hit where you normally wouldn't have but again those moments are rare where the antidote made a difference.
Do I feel Clown is in a better spot? Yes
Do I feel Clown is one of the worst killers in the game still? Yes - But purely because of how his power works - He's just overshadowed by pretty much every killer in the game in many instances and I feel he needs something more - Also yes that excludes Freddy because Freddy is a discussion of his own.
Do I find Clown fun and enjoy playing him? Yes - He's one of my favorite killers in the game - Which is why I hate coming to the conclusion I have but it comes with experience.
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I still think he's one of the worst Killers in the game. The current changes weren't enough to buff him enough.
They could have made purple sticky punch speed him up while slowing down Survivors. This would make him use less ammo, reload less often, and get far faster downs in chase. He would be an absolute chase maniac, and he'd maybe be a solid B tier. He doesn't have any kind of map-wide pressure, he can still only really 1v1, and his speed outside of chase is mostly poopoo. Instead, they added a new bottle that gives a slight speed boost, but requires him to basically double down on the amount of bottles he uses, and make him only gain a very slight buff in chase.
Is it a buff? Yes.
It he strong now? Hell nah.
They could have basically rolled the speed boost into purple punch, make his addons either affect the Survivor slowing affects or Killer buffing affects it causes, and let him use the one kind of bottle to do it all. Swiss Army Farts, baby. That kind of buff would have worked out just fine and made him one of the stronger chase Killers in the game while not really buffing him anywhere else. Again, with that, he'd basically be a solid B tier.
Or they could have made his gamer-pee-bottle cause an injury after the short white smoke period. Injured only, no downs. The white period would act as a warning to get out, so the Survivor has a chance to avoid a big kick in the groin, before they receive a... big kick in the groin for sticking around too long. It would also make pre-dropping pallets against him extremely dangerous, because he might Gamer-Pee the pallet. It would make him split his ammo like he currently does, but the result would be far better. He'd also still have the same lack of map-pressure, though would possibly gain some carpet-bombing capabilities.
My main point is that he's simply not that much better than he was before, and he's still low tier. There are a number of things they could have done to make him better, but they picked the most marginal.
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Trash survivors or crazy luck.
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You literally did the same thing. "look Otz made a video saying new clown isn't bad, so you guys just don't use him right"
Let's be real please. Clown is objectively a bad killer. He was before the "buff/rework" and he still is. The Afterpiece Antidote does literally nothing for him. He has still the same weaknesses as before. If you use Otz as your backup then watch his current stream where he tries to get a 50 win in a row with clown, he is struggling and he is not enjoying his time. Clown is the worst killer in the game for a reason and this "buff" was pointless.
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And before he had exhaustion bottles for DH, and I never had an issue with any loops, used to use either flask of bleach of 10% ether (which has now gone).
So yeah he's no better than before. Amazing rework, fantastic even.
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Yeah it's clear Otz is trying too hard to shill for Behaviour. He tunneled someone out at 4 gens earlier without a care in the world. He's relying on the pure luck of totems too for the win, hardly a consistent build when it all depends on Devour Hope stacks.
Clown just straight up sucks but he's not meant to be good or fun he's meant to entertain the survivors.
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He said Coup de Grâce is not bad too.
But we know it is really bad.
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The video was literally being used as examples for things you could do with the antidote, and yes I will stand by the fact that people who say Clown is still bad don't even know how to use the antidote and don't even know how to play him period. He's much better now since his chase got buffed, although would love to see some more basekit buffs. Yes he still lacks mobility, but half the damn killer roster lacks mobility. So far on my Tier List he's sitting a Low B which isn't to bad, and I don't know how you can say Clown's the worst killer when Trickster is about to be the absolute worst once he releases.
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Ok first of all, your tierlist is absolute trash. It's funny to see that you try to search a discussion but everytime someone disagrees with you, you simple say "You don't know how to use his antidote properly" What is even your point making a thread when you block all the opinions and valid arguments people have? The issue is you're hella biased. The buff did nothing for him and he is still the good old weak generic M1 killer. You can try to bend the fact all you want but he is weak. Wraith is better, Blight is better, Plague is better, Demo is better and I would even say Pig is better than Clown and yes I play him pretty often. He's literally one of my most played killers besides Pyramid Head and Wraith.
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You're probably the first toxic forum member I've ever seen, and you're insulting my Tier List saying it's bad because I don't want to admit that Clown's bad. When did I ever block out opinions or criticism? I read every comment, and don't mind if someone disagrees with me. They're entitled to their opinions, but you don't seeing me trashing them saying how stupid they are because I disagree with them. Which you're basically doing to me right now, seems to me you're taking this very personally. Gawrsh who the hell do you think I am, Tru3ta1ent!?
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Okay it wasn't my intention to sound toxic, if I seemed personally attacked or toxic I apologize for that.
My issue with your post is that you basically said that the majority of the player base doesn't know how to use the bottles properly, because I am pretty sure that most people think that the clown buff wasn't really helping him at all and I am one of them. I played Clown when he was on the PTB and I played him about 2 weeks exclusively after his release from the PTB and in my experience in most situations his antidote didn't helped me at all and I think I know how to use his bottles correctly. The video of Otz shows that the antidote can help but when you watch Otz attempt to get 50 wins in a row you'll see that he doesn't use them often and struggles to win. I know this because I played against Otz during one of his Clown games. Don't get me wrong, Clown is one of the most fun killers in the game IMO but his buff doesn't help with his issues.
and maybe the word "trash" was a bit harsh and I could have said stuff like "not good in my opinion". As I said it wasn't my intention to attack you. I also apologize for my english because it is not my mother tongue.
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Clown's power is currently the only one in the game that can directly benefit the survivors AND punish him at the same time. I'm sorry, but this alone makes him garbage for me.
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OTZ is doin 50 kill without losing with clown
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I've always liked clown and I don't think he's garbage like some people make him out to be but that doesn't means he's still below average in terms of strength and the rework really doesn't do much to solve that. Using both the antidote and tonic can help on certain loops but that's a pretty niche situation in itself because there's still a lot of loops where the antidote and tonic won't be enough to reach survivors and at the end of the day you're going through incredible efforts and big brain plays just to get a hit on survivors I feel like the antidote as a power only really exists for cigar box because that addon makes antidote worth using regularly during a match. Outside of that it's just kinda "there" really and that's probably the saddest thing about the Clown rework. The reload buff is nice and you can get some use out of the antidote if you try hard enough but after reworks like Freddy and Bubba it really feels like that they clown rework was less of a passion project and just more of an obligation to do, just to get him out of the way so they don't have to bother with him anymore.
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From my experience Clown is still bad, but I almost never play him so my word on how good or bad he is is honestly garbage. I still don't know how to use either bottle properly which is probably why I think he's bad.
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He failed at 43. If clown antidote was instant activation like his purple bottle was, I reckon he would already succeeding his 50 killstreak. I think antidote has potential to be strong. Its just not quite there.
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Damn that sucks !!! He wins either way in my book ..he fails and tries again...more views more $$
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he got his 50 wins in a row after many failed attempts, he managed to triumph and outperform the activation delay of yellow bottles, though from watching his video, so many survivors do not drop pallets early vs clown. It allowed him to get so many hits. I wonder if he will be able to continue his streaks when MMR is finally implemented and killers start facing survivors of their own skill-level. That temple of purgation match will be every match for clown for high mmr. In the end, you still have to give him credit, winning with clown even in this random matchmaking is still an achievement that not many can brag about. I could feel pain in playing clown half of those matches.
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I'd say Clown was probably the hardest 50 win streak that Otz has done so far, and I'm very impressed as well. Can't wait to see the Wraith one, since it should be hopefully better for him with the Wraith buff coming next chapter. Although he'll have to do as best as he can with Wraith since he's just a M1 killer
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Yeah he's one of worst killers. I think Wraith will be much easier. He is already done ghostface. Wraith is similar to him. They're very average. I think the hardest for him to try achieve will be Micheal Myers. Myers has really slow start and you can't even use his power properly without J.Myers Memorial, so I think what he will do is subtract one perk for the add-on. He's like trapper. Trickster will whole new level of hard as well.
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