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I’m starting to really not like playing against Nurse or Spirit
I main Spirit and have been getting decent with Nurse lately as both are pretty fun to play as but my gosh these two are so unfun to go against. I’m not sure if it’s because over 50% of my recent matches have been against these two, but it’s really getting annoying and repetitive.
When playing against Nurse, I’m doing the same thing over and over again not dropping any pallets or running any tiles, just trying to juke her blinks constantly which doesn’t happen against good Nurses. They will just use the first blink to close the gap and once they do that, there’s no juking the second blink, you only hope the Nurse misses.
With Spirit, it’s really fun to make grunts of pain when the killer could either be standing still, starting to phase walk, or literally already be on my ass when there’s nothing I can do to help myself. Even if I do throw her off a few times, it doesn’t even feel rewarding. It’s literally a lottery that doesn’t even reward you that much for guessing correctly if the Spirit is short bursting.
I would’ve put Freddy in this thread but I just wanted to include Nurse and Spirit because I have defended those two a lot before. It’s really hard to defend them anymore because both are unhealthy for the game in their current state. Seriously, why can’t every killer be like Billy, Demo, Blight, Huntress (if she didn’t have ######### hitboxes), or Oni? These killers imo are still a threat, as the killer should be, while also being a very fun, interactive battle for both sides. Nurse and Spirit don't need to get nerfed to the ground, I just want them changed in some way that still makes them viable and fun to play but gives them actual counterplay. I feel like a lot of people will disagree with me saying Nurse's skill ceiling is very high, or to jUsT rUn IrOn WiLl.
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In b4 "Just use Spine Chill and Iron Will and watch for the shards"
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That ######### really cringes me and this is coming from someone who loves Spirit
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So killers are suppose to use those weak ass M1 killers and get looped and taunted and bullied by red rank sweaty SWFs? I don't like playing with small pp build survivors for like several years but guess what? Small pp build still exist. U don't like playing with nurse or spirit, how about u don't get to play at all because all killers either quit or go AFK or use cheats when he find he's gaming with OoO SWF on comms?
Btw I don't main spirit or nurse. Maybe they buff all other killers 0.2m/s or something that makes them have a chance when facing good SWF on comms then people will start using other killers. Survivors queue are taking forever and u still complian about some killer are using the character u dislike. Maybe when the game queue time for survivors reach to 1 hour then u will find this game is dead, because u'r such entitled persons that nobody wants to play with u at all.
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Regarding Nurse, I agree to some extent. Playing against a good Nurse is a fun and challenging experience, but when you go against an actual god-tier Nurse there isn't much you can do.
Regarding Spirit, I disagree. Playing against Spirit is... unique. And that is what it makes it fun. I don't think she need changes, but then again, I am not a Spirit main, like you are. If you say that she needs changes, then she probably needs changes.
P.S: I am glad you've decided not to include my babe. I already had to deal with an entire thread of people asking for nerfs and it was a very displeasing experience.
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My guy, I never said that I disagreed with that so why bring that whataboutism bs in here? Small pp builds and killers that are just M1 are things that need to be addressed, but this thread was specifically about Nurse and Spirit. Both are unfun to fight because neither provide reliable counterplay.
Yeah, I love Spirit, I love her power as it's fun to play as. If survivors had some form of counterplay to work with, then I might have even more fun with her.
In regards to Freddy, I don't like playing against him, but I hope the devs take good care of him in his upcoming nerf :)
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Is it really that crazy that a couple of killers can be powerful enough in the hands of skilled players to change the dynamic around (where survivor success depends on the killer making mistakes rather than the status quo everywhere else where killer success requires skilled survivors messing up)?
I just don't get why every killer has to offer the same experience.
Hell, even if it were a problem in the game, I'm not really seeing what warrants attention above a hundred more pressing concerns about core DBD issues that deserve a look. People aren't exactly lining up around to the block to play killer these days anyhow, even strong ones with low skill floors.
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This is true but those two killers are the only ones that can keep up with survivors in tournament scenarios. Sure, those games aren't representative of 99% of the survivors you come across but the main point is that killers like huntress played at max sweatiness still can't compete with playing survivor at max sweatiness. I think it's not bad that killers have at least one viable option (nurse) against those types of survivor groups.
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Because if those two killers are brought down to the level of the rest of the cast, implementing MMR isn’t going to change a single thing in the life of survivor mains.
the game has been exposed for what it is during MMR testing. Many of us knew this would happen. Now it’s there for everyone to see. Gotta get ahead of the curve ya know. Lmao
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Yeah, maybe some form of counterplay is a good change... as long as they don't gut her, of course.
"but I hope the devs take good care of him in his upcoming nerf :)"
I appreciate the optimism, but we both know they won't. I am afraid Freddy is going to get the "Billy treatment", or even worse.
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Tournaments in this game are an absolute joke. I'm specifically talking about the tournaments that consist of the highest level. I, and a lot others, love this game because it's a casual game for everyone to enjoy and have fun. I'm not worried about becoming the best player in the world, I just want myself along with the people I'm playing with and against to also have fun.
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I wouldn't worry about it. It is hard to trust the devs but it's always good to keep positive thoughts while still preparing for the worst. I don't see it being that major of a nerf but we'll see.
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People ask for nerfs to him for some reason right? Devs informed Freddy will have some changes and I hope it makes Freddy players use at least some brain cells.
There's a Nurse level that requires you constant map awareness and muscle memory to do well with her and there's Freddy level that requires literally no work for his reward.
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I feel like it does take skill to play Freddy. Using teleports mid-chase is actually a challenging thing to do, which is something that Freddy players can learn and improve their gameplay with him.
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It really doesn't.
Basic M1 killer gameplay knowledge and that's it.
Freddy has absolutely nothing you could master
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I hope so. I just don't want to see him gutted.
And damn, look at me now, defending a power which I never wanted in the first place. I wasn't very supportive of his rework back on 2019, I just wanted a few buffs and QoL improvements. And now, I am scared of a major nerf. Well, I suppose things change.
People ask for nerfs because they don't want to adapt. And what makes you think that Freddy doesn't require skill?
As a long time Freddy main, I assure you that if you play him wrong, you will lose. Let me give an example:
A screenshot from a recent match. Ruin got cleansed early on and Swing Chains alone can't stop gens. If I had played this match "without using brain cells", I would have lost. And I am not saying I am a very good killer, as I am honestly not that good. All I am saying is that Freddy does require skill.
Post edited by GeneralV on2 -
But have you considered that your brain just isn't omnipresent enough in multiple dimensions to enjoy playing against Spirit?
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The game allows for stealth game play. Use it. Not every killer is meant to be played against as every other killer. I suck against all killers and yet, I can survive long enough for my teammates to do at least one gen (except against Trapper or Billy, I'm a magnet to them for some reason). If they're giving you that much trouble, equip Spine Chill. I've caused many Spirits to waste so much time looking around rocks and trees for me. Its even more funny when they act like they have left to patrol and only come rushing back 6 seconds later, multiple times, hoping I'm working on the gen.
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Wait, I enjoy playing against Spirit. Does that mean my brain is omnipresent?
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Obviously.
Studying your brain will prove to be the key to discovering the 4th dimension.
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They are very overpowered because survivors are too weak. Maps are too friendly for killers and killer perks are way too powerful. BBQ and aura perks for a high mobility killer with no counterplay is not balanced. Add slowdown perks and then the broken tinkerer on top of it and there is no game at all. It would be like fighting the tank in Left 4 Dead with no guns. Unfair and unbalanced.
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Then let it be studied. For science.
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I was a Freddy main with the OLD one before the rework, and I loved that mechanic(great concept, bad implemented in game). Being a main of him after his rework won't surprise me.
Playing with Freddy requires skill? Yesn't. It requires basic Killer knowledge to play with him, of course a rank 20 won't do well with him. You see, there's nothing special about him which requires skill, his power, his teleport, it all requires just your basic knowledge as Killer such as:
- I will fake my red glow here to get a hit
- I will double back here
- I will fake this window
- I will fake this grab
- I will drop this chase it's not worth
- ######### that corner gen
He's just a basic M1 Killer with extra less work to do, he doesn't need to walk to gens and has free slowdown at loops which both requires nothing special about the Freddy gameplay except the basic sense of playing Killer. Like I said, too much reward for less effort.
About the screenshot of your match, you won that match because of your knowledge as Killer, and not because of your skills with Freddy. Also I'm not despising your work of being a main Freddy and calling you bad, I'm sure you know how to play efficiently with him, but the work you have to do in that match probably wasn't that big for the reward you gained.
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See I don't mind nurse or spirt as much as oni oni needs nerfed I have slugged everyone with him in seconds I had to let people wiggle free to make the match fair
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That's one match. The survivors shouldn't really be grouped up like that anyway, so that's on them.
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I'm sorry, OP, but your complaint doesn't make much sense to me.
You say that you're doing the same thing over and over again with the Nurse and Spirit, and present this as an issue. However, you already do the same thing over and over again with every other killer, yet this isn't an issue for you (in fact, you say that those killers are "fun" to go against).
For me, Nurse and Spirit are fun to go against precisely because they're different. They're fun because you need to change your playstyle, instead of doing the same thing you do against every other killer.
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The match was fair, though. Just because they lost easily doesn't mean they didn't have a fair shot at winning. They just screwed up.
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"I was a Freddy main with the OLD one before the rework, and I loved that mechanic"
Oh, just like me then. That is nice! It is always a pleasure for me to meet fellow Old Freddy mains.
While I do agree with you to some extent, I still think things like proper Snare placement and Dream Projection mindgames takes skill. And, even if it doesn't, it is not enough to justify a nerf.
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If that new MMR system they tested becomes a thing then get ready for Nurse and Spirit and Nurse and Spirit and maybe Spirit. That’s all you’re going to see
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@Orion Completely agree.
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Map design usually favors survivors (assuming they're competent).
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"For me, Nurse and Spirit are fun to go against precisely because they're different. They're fun because you need to change your playstyle, instead of doing the same thing you do against every other killer."
Glad to see that someone agrees with me! I love how unique they are, especially Spirit. Nurse is fun as well, but an actual god-tier Nurse just makes you want to pray for mercy sometimes.
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I understand why many players dislike Spirit.
Nurse is somewhat fun to play against, but it really depends on the map, your team, and the Nurse's build.
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I make Nurses pray for mercy (though I must admit I am a bit rusty).
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How is that even possible? Please, teach me.
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Well I expect his snares and teleports being changed, these are the main thing on him that many M1 Killers would wish and are the reason he's going to be changed.
I still miss my favorite build with the double block addons, can't count how many times I grabbed cocky survivovrs 😂
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Ah, sweet sweet block add-ons. Nostalgia is killing me right now. I also loved to use Pill Bottle, some survivors got really desperate because they couldn't see you during the Transition. So many free hits...
Truth be told, what a fun killer Old Freddy was!
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It's hard to explain. I wanted to explain this in another thread, but it's something you can only truly understand if you've played Nurse yourself.
Due to the way hitboxes work, when the Nurse charges a blink to go through, say, a tree, there's a window where no matter how much she charges, she'll end up in the same place. If you understand how her blink landing zone travels, you can determine which side of an object the Nurse is going to end up on and, sometimes quite literally, put up a wall between you and her. If she tries to blink back, you still have a window of opportunity to get on the other side (if it's a small object like a tree) or just GTFO (if it's a true LoS blocker like a wall).
Now, you can understand the theory behind it as I've explained it, but unless you've played the Nurse yourself and truly understand her, these are just words.
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I see. I understand what you mean, but without playing Nurse, which is not gonna happen, it is basically impossible to determine where she is going to end up on.
But it certainly helps. Thank you, I appreciate it.
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There's a lot more to it, like the fact that the landing zone has collision, but yes, unless you play and understand her, it's borderline impossible to truly grasp how best to counter her.
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Which, sadly, is not going to happen. I am so bad with Nurse that watching me play her must feel like a nightmare.
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Get ready for High MMR when all you see our Nurse and Spirit
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You need high tier killers for high tier survivor play. Dowsey video really puts into perspective hhow unpleasant dbd is when you bump into these squads. Behavior threatening mmr means now more then ever we need nurse and spirit.
This won't be a problem for you if you don't perform to a high standard. If your at a high standard push buffs for weaker killers or direct sensible survivor nerfs that hurt the best players but have a limited impact on low rank players. You can't sit there and complain killers you play against are awful and also name killers as examples of balance who do not adaquately perform at the highest level.
I try to play variety but everytime i see competitve survivors that are doign the same tactics of split up push gens on each corner and run optimum builds I'm gonna bring the best killers i can. Your "balanced trash tier" billy isn't going to cut it.
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i started to feel the same after 300 hours. spirit and nurse were fun to play against but as soon as i got to red ranks i realized how sweaty they are.
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I think Freddy won't remain in the A tier anymore. He's just too easy to play.
Expect a more fair interaction with BT and something gutted in terms of map pressure or chase power. Something like a prerequisite before a teleport or some nerf to the bloodpools.
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Nobody has complained about Dream projectioning in chase or cancelling it in chase or whatever. The problem is you've done nothing to create pressure with Freddy. It's also very easy to down players with freddy because he doesn't stop moving 115% setting up traps unlike some other killers who cannot global teleport as well.
He is also outperforming every killer statistically.
Sorry mate it's getting nerfed fair and square. It's shocking it lasted this long. Then again it isn't, this game is managed by BHVR.
What you have here is a killer as unfun to verse in chase as clown that also can win games easily unlike clown. You have your cake and get to eat it with Freddy.
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Nurse is the only killer who unironically makes me kill myself on hook. There's no point playing against this busted killer once their player has figured out how she works. She desperately needs a rework which removes her ability to blindly blink through objects.
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Damn ... This is such a childish and lazy way to tackle balance issues.
There are plenty of things that need changing on both killer and survivor sides, but you don't ignore the problems of one because of another.
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I’ll say what I always say that spirit and nurse in their current state are a hinderance to killer balance due to how much better they are than even the 3rd best
Both need serious changes especially nurse
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Tbf that’s pallet Freddy who is a lot worse and harder to use than snares
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There is a reason people are playing these killers. Figure it out and win a gold star.
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