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why not make more s tier characters
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I know used to main legion but blight is faster
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Nurse and spirit are the only problematic killers at the moment because you can’t Balance them like the rest of the cast
If we want every killer balanced how do we make trapper as good as nurse?
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Good someone gets it was wondering how many people would think what I said glad to see people agree with you
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By nerfing survivors? Inb4 people are like:why you nerfing survivors! Because of reasons that have been noted multiple times. Then just rebalance spirit and nurse after the fact. People say killers like tru3 just defend spirit because shes bs. Nah its really just shes the only answer beside nurse we have.
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Yeah that’s what I’m saying. We need to rework or nerf nurse and spirit then we can move to survivors to make it more balanced overall
Every time they nerf survivor because most killers are struggling nurse and spirit only get stronger
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It sucks because i always thought billy showed how balanced a killer can be then they dumstered him. He had high mobility a oneshot that punished survivors mistakes. Had a good skill floor. And just generally felt fun to face all he needed was a addon pass. Guess we can't have nice things.
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There is no actual debate to be had here. Blight, while good in the hands of a capable player, pales drastically in comparison to spirit in similar circumstance. Let's reel in the optimism just a bit :P
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But besides a negligible overheat nothing changed. He’s still very strong and balanced
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Depends on the loops his chainsaw overheat becomes a big deterimant. Also the ######### scream and his animations god help me.
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You can't. Therefore you buff killers in general, Nurse needs a full rework, and when killers in general are in a much better spot you can then do things with Spirits phasing.
On the survivor side you would do something like scotts idea because the imbalance has always been a lack of communication.
Of course all this requires time and effort and I can't see any major overhauls to DBD at this point in its life.
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The scream is fine and fitting to me but his animations are a bit weird
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Yeah that’s why I want nurse changed so we can actually balance the roster.
Solos do need more communication and a ping system would be perfect
Overhauling the game could happen but probably not
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Good post, this part stuck out for me
"In DBD, such a absurdly huge goal of the game is to ensure the survivors never feel powerless. So you never get a situation where the survivor can't try something to get out of a bad situation, up until you lose the entire interaction anyway. Sometimes it takes a LOT of skill to pull this off, so at the mid game level DBD functions, but at high end the game breaks down because one side NEVER loses agency, and this is a critical game design flaw, because it means survivors never lose control over the game."
It goes back to the argument about 360's with the last update.
Lets ignore whether they work or not for a moment, the fact is that survivors wanted another chance to evade the killer. They're caught out of position, they're in a dead zone, and they still want a way to fight back. The devs caved in and gave them it.
It's that kind of mentality which holds the game back and a development team terrified of its audience. It's not just about 360's, its that same mentality that invades every part of the game. Just the other day there was a thread about the twins and there was suggestions that it should be easier to kick the twins once they miss. So the idea being that if the killer misses the one attack it should be easy for the survivors to run up and completely negate the killers power for a while.
Tru3ta1ent has made a similar point about Deathslinger. People complain there's no counterplay and I completely understand and don't deny that Deathslinger isn't the most fun killer, but imagine you went against a killer with an aimbot who could never miss a shot, survivors want some kind of dodge mechanic, something where even if the killer was on point every time they still had a chance to evade.
I get it you want that agency all of the time when you play survivor but when you take a step back and look at the game as a whole and the 4 vs 1 mechanic, you realize that dead zones and caught out of position, no thats it. You're meant to be hit and you should be hit, there should be no second chance.
I think devs should stop the "every survivor for himself" attitude. It made sense kind of with the old hatch because it was always to play for but now there's no point because if you don't work as a team and do the gens then you're all likely to die anyway. Make the survivors feel like more of a team, reward dead survivors for the team escaping so that people don't feel as crappy when they're tunneled/camped.
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Surely you can't be serious.
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Yeah, I'm trying to be positive :(
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Positivity in the DBD forums?!
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True I think they should buff all the killers so they can stomp the 1% of best survivors. Would make for a balanced game.
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I don't think you guys have actually seen a good blight then. What does spirit actually have over blight? The ability to occasionally down survivors faster than blight? Even then if the survivor plays well the spirit with have to phase at LEAST twice to down them which with a 15 second recovery + phasing time and over time wasters can stack up tremendously. Blight downs survivors way faster in a lot to circumstances, gets a lot more free hits, has 1000 times better mobility and map pressure.
There's a reason at comp level a lot of ppl swap out spirit for blight.
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Blight still has to respect most loops. For example they do literally nothing vs a L T wall.
Spirit dumpsters L T walls, which are common ruins that most maps have and which take an extreme amount of time to loop through due to being essentially unmindgameable if the survivor plays it correctly.
Blight gets rid of the W meta problem, he is stronger than spirit over open ground. But spirit is still strong over open ground, and is strong in loops too. Clear no contest between the two, even if Spirit had counterplay and was merely really good inside loops she would be better simply because she has more tools overall. But in her current state, Spirit isn't just stronger, she is MUCH stronger.
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you dont need to use your power at a LT wall in general just mindgame duhhhh
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Blight gets looped, Spirit doesn't. I've only seen one comp person play Blight, that was fingerguns and he seemed to be missing a lot of swings due to Blight's poor turning.
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Because long term the game is hoping to achieve actual balance. So, having too many S tier killers would mean that the power paradigm would shift from survivor to killer. While, yes killers should be oppressive and stronger, they shouldn't be so overwhelming to the point where you cannot do much against them.
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If you're getting looped at a T L as blight then your not playing him right. There is absolutely no loop in this game he can't play exept for the occasional small loop on an indoor map, but that's just indoor maps so.
Spirit doesn't have as many tools as blight. She's also alot weaker without addons.
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These supposive S tier killers are the ones I see the less of.
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I'd throw Hag and Blight in the S tier as well to be honest.
My main issue with Spirit and Nurse is how much easier Spirit is to use and you get pretty much equal results to if you play a good Nurse. Nurse requires so much more time to master, you're rarely going to see a god Nurse lol
I wouldn't mind if they added another killer like Nurse where, with a lot of time and dedication you could potentially be truly unbeatable but that's such a game breaking thing to go for. When you play against nurse you aren't really playing dead by daylight normally, it's a completely different game in terms of attempting to loop her. I think asking for a killer like THAT is scary and to think twice before asking for such things lol
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I'd say he's A-tier at best even with Alchemist's Ring/Compound 21. Now if we're talking Blight w/ j-flick, he's definitely S-tier barely above Hag.
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I feel you man D:
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I think that BHVR feared the reputation strong things got. This community, in all of its toxicity, gets so incredibly worked up and so incredibly self-righteous whenever they go against things that are typically seen as good and then complain about how they are OP uncounterable ez baby killer/survivor etc. etc. etc. Just look at Spirit; she gets so much hate when only half of it is deserved.
I also think that they're trying to change the game's power creep. In games like Pokemon, the new things are always the new metas; old things fall into obscurity and the new things become the metas. BHVR doesn't want that; they're trying to make perks more equal. Not only have they nerfed DS (which I think was unnecessary), they are buffing perks like second wind. Not only have they nerfed ... well Killer nerfs are on the way, they rebuffing killers like wraith.
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Because survivors complain if they do. Killers arent designed to be strong. They’re designed to be easy to beat
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i talked to the balance designer on his twitch and he said "i dont think you realise how strong clown really is" and to that response i said he gets countered by just running away from loops. Then he said"every killer is supposed to have a counter" my responce was nurse spirit then i left his twitch because im actually just done talking to himn baout balance. I also asked him who he watches at a competitve level and he said"I dont have time for that"
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MMR is gonna make this problem even worse. As killer it will be impossible to get past a certain MMR with some killers and as survivor you will just go against spirit and nurse and maybe a blight somewhere in the mix.
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Only Nurse is S Tier. That's why she is limping everywhere and stumbling as a 3.8 m/s Killer. She is viable against top Survivors even without Add-ons.
Spirit definitely can't compete against top Survivors without Add-ons. She needs duration/move speed/activation against those Survivors. So at base she is probably high A Tier. Spirit has a similar issue like old Nurse did, where Add-Ons make her stupid. At base, Spirit is okay but not good enough for top Survivors.
Give her a bit more duration and move speed at base and nerf/change her Add-ons then we can call her S Tier.
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Nice post. Thoroughly read through and it hits the nail on the head. You've done the research.
Some others here should follow suit. This is how it is.
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Blight is not S tier the only killer that js S tier is nurse and possibly spirit. Blight has far too much counter play and weaknesses to be S tier. He is hella strong tho.
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Devs cares? 4 Survs more money. So in that case noone cares about your complaining actually. That is why my Freddy boi will get nerf because survivors were not enough smart againts him.
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You dont get similar results to playing Nurse well. Even Zubat and tournament players say Spirit has nothing on Nurse.
People vastly overrate Spirit its ridiculous.
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Where did you hear this?
I disagree massively. They are not looking to achieve actual balance long term. They seem like they’re trying to keep the balance they have now.
Last year they fixed all of the broken windows. Now if you saw the other thread about groaning storehouse you can see they brought the window back. A lot of the maps have stronger windows. Then you have meat plant and its thousand god pallets.
The fact that they reverted the map balance so hard shows it was an intentional decision to greatly increase the safety of maps for survivors.
Now they want to nerf freddy who isnt even that strong, ave clown an update that barely increased his strength, want to take away huntress exhaustion hatchets. Nerfed pyramids chase massively even though again he couldnt compete against a good swf
Whatever happened last year they obviously decided it was too much. This is the level of balance they’re trying to keep. They do not want actual balance.
I’ve been facing a lot of swf with toolboxes and bnps recently. I went against one yesterday who was streaming. They spoke a different language so i couldnt understand what was being said but I was playing Twins and it was interesting to watch back because someone here nailed it the other day. There was 4 people chilling and laughing and joking all hitting gens, meanwhile im having to work my butt off just to try and stay afloat. The game really is designed to be casual and chill for the majority of players and sadly that means swf. Killer has to suffer so the rest can have a good time. Thats how the game ks balanced. Except its stupid because I only won by camping, tunneling and slugging (I was twins) and played off their altruism. So in the end I dont think anybody had a good time. The game is not balanced around 4 survivors all doing the objective. Its designed with plenty of spare time so that survivors can chill, raid chests, chase the killer around for 2 mins with a flashlight, go moonwalking etc when all 4 are together in a swf and have the combined focus of wanting to do the objective the game breaks.
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Spirit is still a ridiculously strong S tier killer for the amount of effort required to get good with her unlike Nurse.
At the end of the day Nurse and Spirit are most used by killer mains wanting to win consistently in red ranks due to how powerful they are.
Yeah Spirit doesn't compare to a master Nurse but she can still end chases extremely fast and put insane pressure on survivors with her mobility. It's not exaggerating anything it's just the truth lol
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instead oc fomplaining about nurse and spirit why not suggest reworks for other killers to make them as good as them for more variety
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If you can't keep up with them then stop playing. Also good advice for this game is to not give a ######### because this game sucks.
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