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Dead Hard: Problem? Or not?
EDIT: Why are people still commenting on this
So uh, yeah. Dead Hard. I don't really gotta say anythin else for it. Just Dead Hard
"Oi, nice Dead 'ard! Haha!"
Yea I got nothin' for Dead 'ard really. It's just... Dead Hard, y'know? I just can't explain it
So uh, opinions on Dead Hard?
@DragonMasterDarren gave me the idea for this. Thanks to him.
Comments
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Unfair perk and should be reworked into something to not make killer feel robbed and paranoid about it before he makes hit on injured survivor
Almost not as fun perk as Iron will
20 -
not, so humorous when i see them looking back second to know the timing and i always get them, well almost always get them when they use dead hard, other times they get them selves and dead hard into a spot they cant get out of or just hit a wall.
0 -
It's a fine perk. Of all the exhaustion perks in the game it's honestly the least annoying to deal with. A good deal of the time you can counter it by just waiting a few seconds.
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I think it's fine. Once you know they have it you just wait to swing till you bait it out or are right on them. I laugh every time when they turn and run at me, expecting me to swing and I don't, so they just slam into my chest. I see a lot that dead hard themselves into corners and trees a lot too.
2 -
You can't bait out the perk when it's used for distance.
19 -
It needs to be changed.
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It's literally a free second chance. That's all it is. You screw up and rob the killer of their deserved hit. Zero counterplay if used for distance or against a killer who attacks with their power, because you cannot "bait" it. It is just purely unfair and the true postorchild of second chance perks.
21 -
I think its fine, but I find it weird how killers are complaining about it all of a sudden.
8 -
It should be changed in some way to reflect the dash to get to a pallet/window in time or to better support the i-frames attack dodge it was intended to be used as. Inevitably this thread will devolve into people saying its garbage and doesn't even work as intended or people saying you can't bait a dead hard for distance
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Dead Hard is absolutely problematic. It pains my soul when I get a good mindgame or rush and get denied a down. If used properly every time, it's essentially a free health state. On a 40 second cooldown.
9 -
After DS' nerf tomorrow, it'll be the second most busted perk after OoO. Press E for free distance and an artificially longer chase.
6 -
This perk is so stale in the meta that It's basically a built-in mechanic that every Killer needs to assume that every Survivor has.
14 -
If used properly to gain distance to a pallet or window, it extends the chase by at least 30 seconds.
4 -
The perk should be changed as it encourages greedy play that could be good with a press of a button
It also inconsistent with it length as it would go as far is it could or you just do I pitiful small dash.
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Dead Hard isn't a problem. If it is then there's a few killer perks that should be targeted, including their own DH.
2 -
Deadhard is a spectrum all the way from useless to second healthstate that won the game which is frankly way too varied for a single perk that can be run by 4 players in a multiplayer game to increase the chances of those scenarios
Personally Id rather it do something else or have a capped amount of uses to its current effect / downside
"but it can be baited" yea but only when it would be poor - useless to have in that scenario anyway just because the 30% of the time its useless due to positioning and you can bait it out into nothing doesn't mean that it can't win the game because of the other 70% of the time its used
0 -
For me Dead Hard depends on the map. You say 4 seconds like it's Wreckers Yard or Shelter Woods where it would make no difference. But what if it's Badham, Gas Heaven, Storehouse, or Game? Where there are safe pallets and loops for ages.
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As @bjorksnas said, it can be completely useless or win the entire game. A survivor in an open field can be easily baited, but what if they run to shack? They dead hard to the window, and loop you another 30 seconds. I think 4 survivors being able to stack the perk is really cheap and annoying.
1 -
- Yes, you are right, survivors will not always be in the correct position. But when they are, it's annoying that they get to get somewhere good because they pressed E.
- Dead hard speed is 250%
- Survivors are 4.0 m/s
- Being a Blight/Nurse main, whiffing a rush or blink because of Dead Hard is often more annoying than it is effective
2 -
Common Tiles where dh can be devestating
Long walls, Short walls, Pallet Gyms which is 3/4 generic tiles that spawn in every map except lerys and haddonfun, Shack, Most main building windows especially crotus prenn, most main building pallets especially crotus prenn
Uncommon tiles that can still be devestating with DH
C wall, Super long wall (the tile with 2 Ls and one of them is a window while the other is cut in half with a pallet
Maps that can be devestating with DH, Literally any extra distance to a pallet on The Game
Just because that open field was useless doesn't mean all of these tiles suddenly became a worse place to use DH at or into
5 -
Being exhausted does not change your movement speed.
4 -
Broken af killers that cry about it have 1hr of gameplay experience half the time I end up exhausted without gaining distance or I end up on the ground
5 -
No, it does not.
1 -
Let’s just get rid of the survivors, you can run around the realm and use your power against walls while the entity watches lol that seems like your idea of fun. You know it takes 5 to play this game right? If you really think it’s that hard to counter play exhausted on the ground you should keep your opinion to yourself 😂
3 -
Post a video of you baiting out Dead Hard for distance please.
6 -
If it's a really good survivor that knows how to run tiles, then you don't have a few seconds
1 -
I can't play without it and I hate playing against it. Being able to recover from a mistake because you got outplayed and double the chase time is pretty unfair. It should not have i-frames imo and it'd still be really strong as an exhaustion perk.
5 -
Remove DH hell remove BL then.
0 -
It's so easily baited. Complete joke of a perk.
1 -
Nah dead hard is fine
1 -
So what. If it gets them to the pallet and they throw it, I break it and now they don’t have it to use anymore. If they get to a window I just keep playing the loop and get them eventually. They get more distance with sprint burst and lithe but I eventually get them too.
1 -
If they are able to make it to a pallet or window like that, it can extend the chase for an incredibly long time depending on how good the survivors are. And so what if it gets out of the way for now? The survivor can get it back in 40 seconds.
The thing is, SB only gets used in a chase whenever the survivor goes out of their way to 99 it. And lithe requires a window.
It can stack on every survivor and rewards survivors for playing greedy.
4 -
I'd like to see the i-frames removed but the distance remain (or even get slightly buffed to compensate) personally. When I play killer I hate having to get up on survivors and ride their backs for several seconds to see if they have it or not. And getting your outplay robbed from you via E to a window/pallet is one of the worst feelings in the game.
On the other hand though, it honestly feels necessary vs any halfway decent Nurse. And if Dead Hard ever got a meaningful nerf everyone would be using Sprint Burst instead, which would probably be more annoying.
1 -
Imo it's fine. It's not fun to deal with as killer but it's no game breaking. Survivors having their own chance perks like this is fine imo. I don't see why survivors shouldn't be allowed these "2nd chance perks" just because the killer doesn't have them. As long as it's not actually stupid like pre-nerf DS or current DS (before this upcoming nerf tomorrow) I think it's ok and they're fun to use.
3 -
It can, but it also might not. In my experience, it usually doesn't. I just posted stats from 50 red rank killer games yesterday and another person did today. I played Wraith and killed 79.5% of the survivors and dead hard was the most brought perk. In theirs, they played a few different killers but ended with an 89% kill rate and dead hard was one of the most brought perks. If I'm remembering correctly, the last stats I saw BHVR put out had most of the killers over 50% kill rate. Some of us have figured out we can still win even with all of the strong perks survivors have. If you are getting beat so much, it is probably you went against people that were just better than you. If you aren't and you just don't like the perk, I might ask, what kill % do we need to have before we as killers are satisfied?
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"i DOn't uNdERstANd wHY KiLLeR's coMpLain aBoUT DEAd hArD. jUSt BAit iT oUt Lol."
9 -
Any of those kill rate stats from BHVR are pretty inaccurate btw.
Also this went from healthy discussion to condescending comments real quick. I don't see how a survivor pressing a button on their keyboard makes them skillful, or when they are carried by other perks as well. Just because you yourself happened to go against survivors who didn't know how to use the perk doesn't mean that it is fine.
5 -
then you wouldn't mind if they change Survivors that dead hard cant interact with pallets or windows for 3 secs
3 -
I keep dead harding into walls lol
I'm a killer main so cut me some slack lol
You want to look behind to time it, but then you're not looking forward. I'm guessing red stain is a good indicator.
I'm just trying to level up David to unlock WGLF.
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SB is a much better perk compared to DH since DH rarely works anymore. SB gives you distance before you can even get an initial hit or they get away before a chase begins so you have to continue past 2 more loops just to get into hit range compared to DH that usually doesn't work properly, they run into a wall or they save themselves an extra 5-10 seconds. SB is better in almost any scenario. Dead Hard is fine.
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It would be correct to say that the stats would be different if each match was a killer vs an equally skilled survivor team. But that is not what we get in the public matches. Even as a red rank killer if we were matched against a team of all red rank survivors, there is such a large variation of skill of players that have the red rank title, we still couldn't say we were matched against an equally skilled team. But the stats they posted are accurate to what was happening in public matches at the time the pulled the numbers. I've never heard BHVR say they want balance to be every individual person gets a 2 win or 2 kill average. They want to the average of the player base as a whole to be around 2 wins to 2 kills.
If skill based match making works, we are going to be paired with survivors of equal skill presumably all the time. That means each game we are going to have to try hard to get 2 kills. If you are already averaging more than 2 kills, you probably aren't going to like going from 3 on average to 2 on average. Let's say skill based match making works and was active right now. If they just said yep, you are right, dead hard shouldn't be there and they get rid of it, all that will happen is you will just shift to a different set of players that average 2 escapes against you. And if it worked, would they get rid of rank numbers all together? What would be the point of having a skill based match making if you couldn't see where you sit on the boards compared to others.
I'm not saying pressing a button on their keyboard makes them skillful. I'm saying dead hard isn't as big of a factor in you winning or losing as you think it is. And why do perks need to take skill anyway? Perks are just supposed to give you ways to change how you play. Brutal strength doesn't take skill. But by equipping it I can kick pallets and gens faster. Does that mean we should get rid of it?
Also, disagreeing with someone is not being condescending. If you think I called you an unskillful player, I can see how you might think that. I wasn't trying to call you a bad player as I have no idea what your skill level is. I am saying if you are losing, it is not the perks the survivors are using that is causing it. It is that you are getting matched against players more skillful than you. I know you can have over a 50% win rate against players using those perks because I have over a 50% win rate against players using those perks, other players have over a 50% win rate against players using those perks, and BHVR's kill rates shows the killer player base as a whole have over 50% kill rate. So you too, can work on your killer skills and be there if you already are not.
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At that point, they've earned it honestly.
0 -
I'll never get the "Press button on their keyboard" argument. Isn't that all anyone ever does when they play either side? "Oh you hit me? All you had to do is hit a button. I was out in the open in a dead zone. So totally outplayed. You're literally faster than me." That's how people sound when they complain about "Pressing a button on a keyboard". Like... how else is anyone going to get outplayed? Taking your hands off your keyboard/controller?
1 -
compared to DH that usually doesn't work properly, they run into a wall or they save themselves an extra 5-10 seconds. SB is better in almost any scenario.
And yet you still see this perk every game.Way more than any other exhaustion perk.
That just tells you how strong it is.
5 -
Not
1 -
The most abuseable survivor perk in the game and it's unfair.
Ever since I started playing killer more I've grown to despise it more and I've since stopped using it. Sprint Burst is better but harder to manage and takes more effort to do so and I enjoy that, so I run sprint burst instead.
2 -
"iT DoEsNt wORk hAlF ThE TiME"
"eXhAUSted oN thE gRouND"
4 -
My bad on you trying to call me out, your comments were misleading and other comments that go down road of starting to become toxic are similar. Sorta jumped the gun on that one.
So maybe perks shouldn't take skill to use, but I don't think that they should be able to be used so easily and get so much value out of being used for not doing much to earn it. I still think that it gets too much value for its own good, but I would need a specific example or two to show how it can be used. I for one think that the perk gets too much value and is unfair when used for distance.
A SBM system would be very interesting, probably very bad though considering how this game is favored more to survivors by quite a bit. Not exactly saying that survivor is OP, but it is pretty clear that this game isn't exactly favorable to the killer a lot of the time. If a proper SBM system was put in place, BHVR would actually need to start balancing things.
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Since i'm sure some people are wondering about my opinion on this is, let me Copy-Paste what i told Gooby
some say Dead Hard is trash and leaves you exhausted in the ground, others say it can pretty much win Survivors the game if they stack it and use it for distance, and others still say it’s completely fine since baiting it is comedically easy, I’m personally of the opinion that being able to greatly extend a loop or not get punished for getting read by the killer by simply pressing a single button is way too strong, the reason I think it’s controversial is because, as per usual with this game, it’s a “us versus them” mentality between killers and survivors, since DS has finally been hit the only real second chances they have are Dead Hard and Unbreakable in certain situations
honestly, if they simply remove the i-frames from it so you can’t just dash away from a close range hit then I think the perk will be fine, since the only way you stop people from using it for distance is to change the perk in it’s entirety and give it a new effect
Post edited by DragonMasterDarren on0 -
You've really opened pandora's box with this one lol.
Dead hard as intended is fine. On the weaker side even. Dead hard for distance is busted. It's kinda funny how we have a i-frame move and the op thing about it is the 1m dash it does
Remove the "for distance" part of it by adding a 2 second unable to interact with objects like docs shock and it will be fine.
Can still be used for distance but them atleast you have to do it earlier giving the killer the chance to drop the chase and you won't be able to do it when the killer outplays you with a mindgame unless you actually avoid a swing
1
