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J-Flick Discussion
Recently some of my friends have been playing blight and I thought that I would give him a shot myself. After playing playing him a lot I have come to learn that Blight is one of the most fun killers in the game. This brings us to the topic of J-Flicks. J-Flicks are something you can exclusively do on pc by turning very fast at the end of a rush (made easier by using a high dpi). J-Flicks allow blight to flick up to 180 degrees (people have found ways to do more but that's unpractical). J-Flicks create new ways to play blight. It turns him into some strange combination of oni and billy. And it's some of the most fun I've had playing dbd in a long time.
Many people are making the argument that since J-Flicks are unintended they should be removed, but if you think about it many great things have come from unintended game mechanics. A great example of this is b-hopping in csgo where entire communities revolve around it. Another is minecraft with it's bug pistons. My point here is that just because it's intended doesn't mean it should be removed.
A second argument people make against it is that it's OP or that it somehow is bad for gameplay. This one is simply not true. As a survivor main with over 1k hours I have to say playing against a good blight who can J-Flick is so incredibly fun. It adds fun mind-games and is like playing against a baby version of Oni's ability. It isn't even close to being bad for the game. Don't get me wrong blight would be a pretty balanced killer without J-Flicks but he would have an incredibly hard time playing against good players.
The final and possibly only good argument is that it's not fair because only PC players can do it. I honestly can't really make a strong argument against this. I've exclusively played DBD on PC so I'm going to be a bit biased when coming to this argument. In the end dead by daylight is a casual game and the only people who are out here taking the time to learn how to learn how to J-Flick are the "sweaty" players. FPS games with cross play have had this problem forever, A good PC player will always be able to out aim a good console player. (I'm not saying PC players are better than console, just that they naturally have an advantage).
If you take anything away from this argument please let it be that J-Flicks don't take anything away from gameplay, they only add good things to it. If you really took the time to read this all I appreciate it.
tl;dr Keep J-Flicks or I main stridor spirit for the rest of time.
Comments
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I mean, I just looked at it, and it's not crazy strong like the 180 degree flick that Oni once had, since you don't have any forward momentum into the 180 degree direction.
But it does cut down on the counterplay against him, which I think is not needed since he is already very strong and in fact viable on most maps without the j-flick, so I would argue it is too much and should be fixed.
I do fail to see how it creates more mindgames though, as I just feel it creates less situations where a survivor has a chance to dodge his attack.
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"Don't get used to it" is what McLean has said, to me this implies they're going to be fixing it.
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In 5 years, knowing bhvr.
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It’s pretty much been confirmed that it’s being removed which I’m fine with. It wasn’t intended and removed one of blights major weakness.
Now a stretched res removal please?
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It doesn't cut down on anything. You just have to play against him the same way you would play against an oni with his power (which is super fun). Removing the J-Flick would completely kill him from being used in comp, blight without it is good but not against sentient survivors (without J-Flicks). If BHVR nerfs this like they did billy. I might actually quit the game. If they keep nerfing the killers that are balanced and fun for both sides I'm actually going to lose my mind.
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Going against a killer using an exploit is not fun and balanced
I think it's absurd that people who are using the exploit can say they speak for survivor players
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Yikes,quitting the game because an exploit is getting fixed.
Removing the J-Flick would completely kill him from being used in comp, blight without it is good but not against sentient survivors (without J-Flicks).
I mean,DbD was never and probably will never be able to be played competitively.Not really a good arguement.
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Best part is it'll get fixed quick since it's a survivor issue
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I hope it goes.
I like Playing Blight, he's very fun to play. I also like Blight as survivor. Why? Clear, fair counterplay. J flicking is just boosting your dpi and spending 5 minutes learning the mouse movement to remove the killers only counter.
SAying removing it will make you switch to SPirit is pretty funny btw. It's basically admitting you can only excel at killer by playing killers that have no back and forth and basically hand you the win.
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How its an exploit if you can play the game at 12000 dpi if you really want to? Call it a bug but not an exploit since every person with a gamer mouse can use that feature. And he's not the only killer that can benefit from cycling your dpi. This whole discussion about this is really absurd. I'll would call it a pro tip not an exploit.
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What J flick ?
We have moonrush.
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I doubt the Devs will change anything in regards to stretched, or at least not any time soon.
The whole stretched res thing is very complicated. Not only is removing it difficult, but even if it were easy, simply removing it just like that would cause a multitude of problems. Compared to proper exploits, there are some genuinely legitimate reasons to use stretched res, so straight up removing it wouldn't be fair.
Honestly, I think people overreact when it comes to stretched resolution, but that's just my take on it.
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Looping and 360's werent intended so they are exploits by definition.
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You should really try to actually read the definition of an exploit 👍
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They say it's unintended. But exploit is a very strong term for it when it's literally just a hard flick. Sigh... If cross-play wasn't added then this wouldn't be a discussion...
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You bring up a good point about Crossplay. But where do you think the game would be at without it, or without console altogether? Is the PC playerbase big enough to sustain and grow the game?
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"The use of an unintended mechanic to gain advantage". Looping was unintended and you get advantage over the killer. It sounds dumb, but so is calling a simple flick an exploit and making a big deal about it when we have bigger problems in the game right now
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Except the developers intentionally put something on Blight to prevent him turning 180, the developers have never put a limit on going around objects, and survivor locomotion has always allowed turning the way that 360s are done, there has never been an attempt to block it.
Why are people so incapable of understanding that and instead think they have something, devs have never tried to prevent looping or 360s, they have literally stated they want Blights turning locked to 90, it's really that simple, nobody is exploiting anything with 360s or looping because there's never been a limit on it and the devs have never tried to stop survivors doing it.
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I really don't see how people are missing the point, it has nothing to do with the DPI but the fact Blight is supposed to be locked to turning 90 degrees an can go further when you're not supposed to.
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As a good Blight, it's OP. If you have any clue how Blights mechanics work you can turn everything into a pure, killer-sided guess. That's extremely unhealthy and at that point why not go play Nurse or Spirit, huh?
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To be fair, 360's are a little exploity, since the only reason they work is because of the latency between killer and survivor. However, current 360's are more of an animation bug that popped up when they redid the redone animations a few months back.
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To be fair, 360's are a little exploity, since the only reason they work is because of the latency between killer and survivor
I mean,you could say the same about some huntress hatchets hits or normal hits too
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If someone wants to use a J-Flick, go ahead. It's getting removed and if they want to rely on an exploit to win that says more about them.
I'm just sick of people constantly trying to justify an exploit the devs have said is not intended and will get removed.
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Would you scrim my squad?
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No, I mean the fact that on the killers screen the survivor teleports around.
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But that is more of a latency issue then right?
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Get rid of it IMO.
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Its not even 90 degrees, its about 45 degrees, but can be turned to 90 by add-ons,
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Sort of, but the original animation rework fixed the issue by slowing down the physical turn animation without actually slowing down turn rates. It's just that people hated it because they could only spin terrible killers and couldn't moon walk any more.
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"Can only be done on PC"
How can you say this and then go on to say that they should keep it in?
You J-Flicks fanbois. I swear to god.
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Some may argue that this increases Blight's skill cap, which is true. Some may also argue that unintended mechanics can lead to being respected by the community and developers. However, this is different. BHVR has stated that they are not okay with the J-flick and do not want their fog whisperers to use the J-flick. Take Super Smash Bros. Melee for an example. The wavedash was an exploit found by the developers of the game. Sakurai wanted to keep it because of the potential it had for competitive play.
If BHVR does not want to keep the J-flick, it's best if you respect their decision. Play Blight how you want, J-flick or not, but you can't deny it's an exploit. If you don't wanna play Blight how he was intended to once the gets the exploit removed, then go ahead and play Stridor Spirit. No one really cares man.
Post edited by glitchboi on3 -
So I know that @ImmersedNurse already answered this but I gave a more comprehensive breakdown here explaining exactly how and why it's an exploit using as close to a dictionary definition as I could get:
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I mean the flick obviously doesn't help him with map pressure. So it either makes him stronger in chases and therefor cuts down on survivors counterplay, or it doesn't do any difference, which would then mean it shouldn't have any effect when being fixed. So it's either the one or the other.
Fact is going around objects where the Blight has to turn more than 90 or 100 degree is counterplay against the intended Blight. But it isn't against the Blight with the j-flick. And in my opinion, Blight is already strong enough without that flick. He is easily my favorite killer in the game, to be honest, now that his field of view is fixed.
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It may be unintended by the devs and I could care less if it got removed tomorrow, but with it just pertaining to having your sensitivity up and using kb&m it's easy to overclock a swing past 90 and not even think about it during the game , I've been doing what's considered a flick on Oni and I had no idea it was an exploit because I'm not doing anything to gain the advantage but sliding my sensitivity to 100 in the options menu provided to me. Now that I know they're basically bugged and you can do that I'm not even playing those killers because I don't want to hear people complain I'm cheating I'll just wait for the fix so there are no excuses.
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By that argument then a 360 its also an exploit and not a pro tip. You try again my friend.
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I would say it's more of a bug because think about it, you're chasing a survivor who's about to turn a corner during rush you're gonna try to get a swing in so it wasn't a wasted rush , you know how easy it is to do that on accident? All you have to have is high sensitivity and be into the game trying to catch someone and because he's able to turn more than he's supposed to be able to it's giving some people an advantage, exploit is a strong term because there are people who j flick and don't even realize they are because theyre not doing anything but literally moving their mouse in a direction to get a hit , it's absolutely the devs fault for not fixing the turn cap sooner and letting it go on for this long
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Really? the "360 is an exploit" is nonesense, the developers haven't put in a lock to prevent survivors doing that motion, it's always been there and has always been allowed and the devs have NEVER tried to limit the rate at which you can turn, they have however put in a lock to his turning radius that doesn't work, the fact killers are ignoring this difference because they want to believe to hard that 360ing is an exploit is ridiculous.
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As ridiculous as thinking j-flick is an exploit wich is not. You know why is this "j-flick" its in many people sights now? because its killer related. If it was survivor related no body will complain about it. In any case as i said before many killers can benefit from cycling your dpi its really pointless to target blight because this "feature" "bug" or call it whatever you want is in some people mouth right now. 360 really behave the same way, the killer bug itselft and hit the air in an animation when survivors do a correct 360...
Both things are taking advantage of the game mechanics...
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People literally play Bubba and face camp in Comp what are you even talking about?
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The whole reason it's being removed is because a bunch of whiny people on the forums got hit by it and instead of learning how to counterplay it they made their voices heard, and now the devs have decided to remove it.
The idea that it removes counterplay is utter nonsense. If you want to talk about killers removing counterplay why aren't we talking about the 50% of other killers in this game who have extremely limited counterplay?
Oh and why is oni allowed to strafe along walls, get more turning AND have a much better flick than blight but that's fine?
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knowing bhvr in 1-2 next patches, since it's a killers tech.
At the same time, stretched res still remains unfixed for years.
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I hate when people say "if this happens I'll quit the game" This is a LOT of folks go to as a threat. I wish people would stop grandstanding and making empty threats and just do it already.
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When it's all said and done it's a tool assisted cheat. It is cheating, especially when it's only something one segment of the base can do. Like lets call a spade a spade here.
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Agreed.
Unintentional doesn't mean it should be removed.
The line should be determined by how malicious it is to the game.
J-Flick is not giving Blight an instance ability to massacre everyone, it's just a tech which can be useful or useless depending on user's skill.
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I wasn't trying to make a petty us-vs-them debate, not to mention that your insinuation is flat out wrong on all levels.
Jflick is not a tech. It's an exploit.
Stretched is exploited by killers as well.
Devs have fixed plenty of stuff on the survivors' side as well. Window vault collision, then the version with the map discovered shortly after, the lack of hitboxes when unhooking from one side, etc. They're just very inconsistent and slow to act, regardless of who benefits from the bug.
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Was it though?
I'm just stating a fact.
J-flick will be gone in next 3-4.5 months
Stretched res will remain for an indefinite amount of time.
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Streched res gives more advantage to survivors than killers, and it has been in the game for 4 years without a fix. (btw the devs said that is cheating and people still use it)
Jflicks have been in the game maybe since blight release, but people started using it like 2 or 3 weeks ago and devs said that they will remove it.
Its an exploit? Yes.
Because its an exploit means that they have to remove it? A lot of great mechanics in games came from exploits so no.
They can make it a feature/tech? Yes.
People should stop making threads about jflicks, they will remove it and BHVR dont listen to the community so there is no point in complaining.
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Personally I find it quite annoying just because of the fact it can't be done on all platforms.
You could be an amazing Blight but are limited by which platform your on. It also makes console players who play Oni and Blight look like they're bad killers when facing pc players. It's hard to balance something properly if it is easier on certain systems (Hi scroll wheel Hag 👍)
I didn't realise it was a feature the devs were going to change till last night but I'm all for it.
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Wasnt the removal of 360's undone because survivors cried about the new locomotion/animations?
And now theyre crying about a killer doing basically the same as they've been allowed to do forever?
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Devs On J-Flick: it's unintentional, he's restricted to 30 degrees for a reason
Devs On 360s: absolutely nothing
Killer mains: they are clearly the same despite Devs trying to prevent one but not the other
🤦♂️
Post edited by Seanzu on3
