Are we going to keep ignoring that face camping and hard tunneling are a giant problem
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They've released a killer who forces you to camp and tunnel because it's completely useless :D
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Then run DS.. i do and killers leave me alone after being unhooked.
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And, as I mentioned, the reason it hasn't killed the game yet is because there are enough good killers that don't camp. And you don't want to punish good killers by hard genrushing.
Putting it on the survivors to just 'deal with it' is going to create far more hostility because there's no immediate way to tell if a killer is camping, aside from running kindred all the time.
Which is why the 'you can see the killer if he's X meters from a hooked survivor' should probably be baseline.
And even then, good luck instructing the other two survivors to not bother playing the game.
Bad playstyles encourage more bad playstyles. Bully swiffers make killers camp and tunnel, campers and tunnellers make survivors genrush. It's a harsh negative spiral that just breaks the game down.
And as I said, the reason that the game is still alive is due to players' intention of having fun. Lots of killers don't camp or tunnel, lots of survivors don't genrush or go into bully swiffers.
The ones that do are the worst parts of the game.
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I myself prefer to play as a survivor. By far. This game was basically the second coming of Monstrum for me. Hiding and sneaking around in an attempt to outwit a violent killer is my bag.
But you have to understand, just because lots of people complain about something doesn't mean that their complaints make it so. I hate face camping too. A lot. I hate when I see it happen to other people who are just trying to enjoy their game, and I hate it when it happens to me as I'm trying to enjoy mine. I find it cheap, lazy, and unskilled. But if it gets them the win because the other survivors refuse to counter it, then I have to disagree with the assertion that it isn't a strategy. As far as I'm concerned anything in this game that gets you ahead, as long as it's not a cheat or otherwise deliberate exploit of a game mechanic that the developers didn't intend for, then it's fair game. I may not like it, but that's life. Or death. Pun intended.
I mean, I get it. I really do. Being camped sucked. Being tunneled sucks. I can't tell you how many times I've rolled my eyes and sat there sighing in exasperation as the killer went for me five times in a match even when I was surrounded by multiple other survivors. I can't tell you how hard it was to fight the impulse to screw over the camper by just disconnecting and taking the temporary ban. But when I play as a killer, those little bastard survivors do things that piss me off too. It goes both ways.
Camping sucks. Tunneling sucks. Slugging sucks. The fact that all the killers are inherently faster than any of the survivors sucks. The fact that three of the survivors can work together while you're trying to stop one from doing something sucks. But that's the name of the game, man. Sometimes (sure, I agree with you, more often than I'd like), other players will be dickbags and yes, it's absolutely annoying. But objectively speaking I just can't think of a reason why it should be mandatory for killers to have to turn their backs and leave after hooking someone, thus ENSURING that the survivors can free them. That doesn't make any sense to me. That, ironically, WOULD be a blatant imbalance that clearly favors one side over the other.
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As long as the forums continue to be a circle jerk for killer mains, yes, it will be ignored. Really unfortunate how many people shut down discussions about this and deny an obvious problem.
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Es como pedirle a los supervivientes que dejen de hacer genrush y que se deje cazar porque si hace buen loop el asesino no cuelga a nadie en toda la partida. Mejor aprende a hacer buen loop... ¿no?
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This Game is full of campers and tunneling. Cause every single DBD Killerplayer is bad af. They need to camp 24/7 in your face, because they not good enough to win. This game is getting more and more trash. DS nerf = dbd is dead for the most people.
Since they nerfed DS the Killers camp and tunnel more than ever before. xD Such a trash for real.
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If survivors tried to bait a camping killer away, it would be a 4k. This is bad strategy against a camping killer. If the survivors do gens, it will be a 2k.
But either way, a player being able to totally stop another player from playing the game is a major flaw in the game.
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Not really when the killers sole job is to kill and take people out of the game.
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Words of wisdom. It drives me insane when people get hooked and let themselves die. I know its not fun, but it's giving a gift to the team. Thats like 2 mins or so of unfettered access to gens. When i get face camped i take my lumps and WANT folks to work on gens. I'm a killer main and I would never face camp for this reason. It make no sense and I get no points. Not to say that I won't be skulking around, but never face camping.
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"you don't want to punish good killers by genrushing"
Excuse me... WHY?!
It's your objective. If the killer can't pressure you hard enough, that's too ######### bad.
You are the very definition of what Sirlin is talking about - shackling yourself with all these nonsensical made-up rules that don't matter. This is a PvP game, bring it or go home.
It's noble that you want to care about others... but when the other side is out to beat you, this isn't the right place for it. As I said, bring it or go home.
I'm the worst part of the game according to you...
Fucking hell man - the person who has to get over themselves are people like you who think that people who like to play wide open are obligated to "dumb down" or "play with kid gloves" because somebodies feelings might get bruised.
FFS - your expectation is unrealistic and is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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Its a problem, but its mostly caused by gen rushing and the fact they go off too fast. If killers had more time to do things, they wouldn't need to resort to such tactics.
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yep
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This. I don’t think many killers want to ever tunnel or camp but when generators are being completed and any pressure the killer has is disappearing the killer will do the only they can do to regain power and remove a player. Especially when things like brand new parts are being used.
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If gen rushing is a problem and camping is the only way to fix it. Fixing camping would also result in nerf to gen rushing. Neither one is fun for survivors or killers. As long as camping allows killers to stop gen rushing, it means gen rushing is never going to be fixed until camping is fixed. Fixing both would be a vast improvement to the game.
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Super hardball maximum sweaty PvP has never been good for the playability of -any- game, or the health of any game's community. I want DBD to be fun to play, not just a spectator sport.
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Camping doesn't stop Gen rushing, it encourages it. Once survivors seen a camping killer they're first thought is to do gens while the killer is with that survivor
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Sometimes the best option is to do both. It has won me many games where I was down to 2 gens while trying to be nice and I just had to remove someone out of the game. Also, camping can bring others around you for some free hits causing a snowball. I have to disagree with you on this. Both are fine and valid tactics.
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Hope they didnt ignore, like the fact that also genrush is a problem. For both side perks helps, but not risolve.
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It’s an easy fix they just need to punish face camping by reducing blood points instead of emblem status. If people watch -200 BP disappearing every 20 seconds for face camping they might actually think to leave the hook. Unfortunately most people either don’t care about losing emblem points or they don’t even realise face camping reduces them so the continue to do it.
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You really need to get some new material champ. Look, I want to save you some time and aggravation. Camping and Tunneling aren't going anywhere. You could do one post a minute for the next three days full of sound and fury and it wouldn't have any effect. The DEV have made it abundantly clear time and time again that those are valid tactics and they aren't going to do anything to fix it for you. I suggest you go back just six months (no reason to go entirely crazy) and look at how many posts there have been. Go back two years if that is what it takes. You will find that you are beating a dead horse for no avail.
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No. This suggestion is just petty BS because you're angry you can't get free unhooks.
How about Survivors lose BP if they do gens too fast? What's that? They're just playing the objective? WELL SO IS THE KILLER!
Camping is fine. Camping is a legit strat. Camping is not going anywhere. It's one of the ways Killers ensure a kill. And their entire objective is. To. Kill. You.
Or is it just not fair that you lost? I mean, with an idea this petty, it HAS to be that you can't stand losing.
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Well... judging by the success of the game... I'd say the evidence supports competence. :)
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Are we going to keep ignoring the fact that the devs have said, repeatedly, that camping, slugging, and tunneling are valid tactics?
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
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Yes we are because anyone with a brain realizes how stupid that it. Camping, tunneling and slugging are the most complained about and hated thing in this game and has caused more people to quit then anything else. The fact that the devs keep trying to say those are legit strategies is only hurting the game in the long run. Keeping those things in the game only increased toxicity, divides the community even more, and make people hate on the devs an extreme amount. Literally nothing good comes from keeping those things in the game and nothing good comes from the devs continued defense and support of it.
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No, actually they are are not. A distinct vocal minority complains about them endlessly, but every time serious polls are done, the results would surprise you. You just need to git'gud.
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Above about rank 10, if you rotate hooks among four survivors (i.e., before anyone gets a third everyone has two) you. will. lose. the. game. with. a. 0. or 1. k. every. single. time. (unless you are a god nurse/spirit maybe).
Solve that problem, and we can talk about banning tunneling. Because the one thing worse than tunneling/camping is 1 killer for every 100 survivors and 3 hour survivor queues.
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There is no getting good when it comes to those strats. The way you beat them is to play stealthy to not get found by the kill but wait the devs keep ######### nerfing stealth because killers kept complaint it wasn’t fun to play against. Go figure the things killers think isn’t fun get nerfed but the things survivors think aren’t fun don’t get touched.
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Except every idea to 'fix' it either:
- Easily abused by Survivors for free unhooks
- Removes Killer player agency
- Is a spiteful idea meant to punish Killers
No idea, ever, to 'fix' it has been good in any way. Every single one fits into one of the three areas I listed above.
But you, and other Survivors don't care. You just think you deserve all the unhooks, and so you pretend to care about 'the health of the game' while ignoring how many Killers would leave if you tied their hands because you're throwing a temper tantrum over losing 'unfairly'.
All your comments about the 'health of the game' and 'hurting the game' are pitiful smokescreens for the truth; You want more unhooks. You want to get unhooks when you get to the hook. You don't want Killers winning. You want easier matches.
Guess what? You don't get to decide what's fair. The devs do. And they decided, years ago, that they can't punish camping without Survivors exploiting it. Because Survivors exploited the punishment they tried.
And now Survivors are coming back and suggesting the exact same punishment, like they expect the devs to just let them get away with abusing it again if they scream loud enough.
Guess what else; you know why Survivor queues are so long? Because Killers aren't playing. And you think trying Killer's hands with half-baked, trash punishments will make the game BETTER?
No. No. You are well aware that it will make the game EASIER, for YOU. You could care less about how it affects Killers.
...Up until they all leave, and you're left wondering why the game died, because YOU were having fun with EZ wins due to all the trash mechanics & BS punishments you demanded the Devs add in to make your game easier.
Because when you say 'Camping is unfun' what you really mean is 'Losing is unfun. Please alter the game so I can win'.
Thankfully, the Devs aren't falling for your smokescreen.
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And yet thousands of Players manage to play against it successfully every day. Git'gud.
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They're problems because the only counters are one use only and aren't efficient enough
And even then, balancing a mechanic someone can perform around perks is idiotic, pay-to-win in some cases, and downright horrible game design.
Don't tell people "Just run BT" "Just run DS" they should be able to run whatever they please and still have a fun game
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Your argument meant to fully insult me for no reason would have worked except for the simple fact that I am a rank 2 killer that never has to use any of those strats and still can get 3-4K in a majority of games.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
Ok mister genius you tell me how to beat those strats without using stealth and still being able to pip up because your emblems will get ######### over even if you are not the one getting camped because the killer refuses to interact with you and you can’t heal or unhook the guy getting face camped.
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If you want to get rid of tunneling, then you need to remove the necessity of it.
The fact of the matter is that you cannot play a clean 12-hook game against a half-decent team.
If you want to remove tunneling, you MUST slow the game down.
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That’s not true at all. I’m a rank 2 killer and have 0 problems playing fair and still getting 4k even against swfs. I do agree the game does need to be slowed down a little but it’s not impossible to win while playing fair
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I said half-decent Survivors.
How many hours do you have?
What perks do you think are OP?
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I understand your argument, when I play as killer I really try not to camp and tunnel, however how do you explain the survivor teams that dunk on you when it isn't done? I've had to camp before because I know someone is there just waiting for me to leave. If I don't camp I get the GGEZ BS. and if I do I get called trash for doing it. I don't do that every game but sometimes I feel I have too.
As for tunneling If I see the person who got someone off a hook I will go after them, however if I don't and the person who came off the hook runs into me again I will down them.
How do you feel about situations like that?
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I would say I have around 1000 hours. I don’t think any perk is op and I don’t hate any perk except noed
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Play 'fair' all you want.
I, too, play fair, and I camp and tunnel. And I slug sometimes, if another Survivor is nearby waiting to save.
If Survivors can try their hardest to win by banging out gens quickly, I can try my hardest to win by knocking someone out of the game as quickly as possible. And your petty little ideas about camping, fairness, and what's 'fun' have no impact on my play.
You can't remove camping without removing player agency. At that point, Killers will leave and queue times will get longer, because punishing 'camping' would be a direct nerf to every Killer's tools to win.
But that's what you really want. That all any of the whiners want when they whine about 'camping' and 'tunneling' and 'slugging'. They just want Killers forced to play by their made-up rules so they can have easier matches.
If you can't accept that the Devs have said, repeatedly, that camping, tunneling, and slugging are valid; then maybe this game is not for you.
It's as useless as whining about getting sniped in CoD and demanding they remove all snipers because you find them 'cheap' and 'unfun'. The real message behind it is 'I don't like this, cater to me. Let me win more.'. I don't know what else to tell you.
This is just a step or two removed from whining that Killers kill. 🤷 Do you really think you get to decide HOW the other team wins?
Your mindset is exactly why Survivors abuse me in end game chat when they feel I've played 'unfairly' and I'm <redacted> sick of it. Devs have said, repeatedly, that camping, slugging, and tunneling are fine.
Accept it or leave.
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Teamwork, looping, Borrowed Time, Styptic Agent, Camaraderie, We're Going To Make It, Spine Chill (not for Stealth but for knowing when to leave a Gen early), Dead Hard, and just plain old mind games. The fact is the BASICS carry a Player past most obstacles. I've played fourteen games tonight as Survivor, mostly because I was going for the Gnome. I died in two. Of those fourteen games, only two Killers camped; I died in neither of those matches because my Teammates STILL got me off the hook.
There is no magic bullet. You log in the hours, many thousands of hours and you get good enough that all the things that bother you now seem unimportant later. BASICS. You practice Looping. You practice Safe Rescues. Against a Camper you have lots of useful tricks. Dead Hard combined with Borrowed Time used correctly will bait the swing at you which DH handles, you unhook while he is reloading and take the protection hit while the other gets away. That is just ONE way to do it. There are videos (lots of them) made by far better players than me (I consider myself a competent Survivor... no more and no less) which you can go watch.
Look, I'm trying to be nice. I'm actually trying to be helpful, but people like you really try my patience. If you spent even 10% of the time working on your obstacles in game and researching as you do moaning and groaning here, you wouldn't have anything to complain about. You would already be past it.
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You play on Xbox, right?
I think I remember you saying that.
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I'm curious about that so I made 2 polls one for Killers one for survivors to see what bugs who
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I'm not talking about Player Polls on the Forum. :) The Forum isn't really the community. The majority of the actual community never come here, post on social media about the game, etc. I'm talking about the surveys that bEhavior gives us periodically. There have been some that talk about all sorts of issues, including the ones discussed here. Over the years it has come up countless time and in countless ways. The actual statistics and responses to the surveys they give (and care about) tell them all they need to know. And as I said, the results would probably surprise you.
People who spend there time here get a Fun House Mirror version of the community and the game. It is one of the reasons I'm such a stickler sometimes. I don't like the confirmation bias, the glittering generalities, and the fact that more people who are upset post (and post a lot) as compared to the LARGER number of people who are content, and thus have no reason to post. It is a basic fact of statistics that certain kinds of feedback and polls are tainted at the source because of their nature. Happy people don't say much. Angry people make noise far in excess of their size.
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Yah I never even bother with their polls, generally if I'm loading up the game to play I just click the button over and over till it loads. So what is the number 1 thing players would like fixed according to their in game polls?
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You should do their Surveys as those are the ones to which they pay the most attention. Players want optimization fixed across the platforms. They actually would prefer a skipping a new content chapter to work on bugs. Quite a number of them want a change to the basic regression speed. A significant number (and I'll never understand why) are interested in cosmetics.
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It's an easy fix to dissolve the killer playerbase.
You start punishing killers more and even more killers stop playing.
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Yup
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I'll say too, it's frustrating how many posts I see that complain about things without proposing fixes or new ideas.
Part of the problem, IMO, is that Survivors aren't really united on how face camping can be fixed. Something substantial game-wise would have to change, but based on some other threads and suggestions I've seen, more experienced survivors are just fine letting one person get face camped while the other 3 rush gens and escape. Those experienced survivors don't want any changes that make their success in that match more dependent on the skill of that first person getting caught and face camped, so for now, it seems like those people getting caught will continue to have a problem that in general, neither their teammates nor the killer are invested in fixing.
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camping and tunneling are valid tactics that sometimes work very well for the killer. Sorry but nothing's gonna be done to stop them that's why y'all have perks like DS and BT and others.
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Oh oh can I get both perks?
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