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Do away with SWF or give Killers Options
As a killer main, I can't tell you how infuriating it is to CONSTANTLY be put against premade SWF. I'm only a Purple Rank killer, and getting put against Rank 1 SWF groups over and over and over again while getting t-bagged all game is such a huge turn off.
This game was not designed with coms in mind, and since you nerf killers whenever you get the chance, we have no way to counter this huge boon and handicap survivors get. I suggest you give killers more flexibility when queuing and give them the option queue against solo survivors - offer bonus bloodpoints if they choose to go against SWF.
It's the only solution I can come up with since after 5 years you STILL can't balance matchmaking.
Without killers, your survivors have no one to play against - you need to start showing them more love before you drive this game into the ground. EVERY DBD content creator I've seen complains about this. It's time to listen.
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This is a game meant to simulate a horror movie. How many films have you seen where everyone is getting in real time updates on what the killer is doing and where they are? "Someone come help me on gen in killer shack!" "Just lost them in main building." "They are chasing me, focus on gens." "Killer heading your way, heads up!" "Hex-Totem on second floor in farmhouse! They are chasing me, someone come get it while I lead them away" etc.
So how does DBD combat survivors with such a huge boon over the killer and show love to their killer community again?
Do I think SWF should be abolished? In hindsight - not so much. But there is a definite unbalance to the game right now and it does NOT favor killers at all. Map redesigns with multiple god pallets, scratch marks harder to see (thanks to new foliage), slower killers (Twins, Trickster, etc), and the list goes on.
Here are some ideas that have come up so far:
- Survivors cannot loot keys from lockboxes
- Penalize SWF groups - slower gen speeds, longer lasting scratch marks, etc
- Remove Object of Obsession
- Two separate queues - solo and SWF. Killers who elect to go toward SWF groups are more heavily rewarded for game match. Double-blood points, blood shards, etc - something to make it enticing for killer going into a harder mode of the game.
- Hatch no longer spawns unless last surv or all gens are completed
Would love to hear more CREATIVE and POSITIVE ideas to the problem.
Comments
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The thing that confuses me is the fact that everyone says that if you made it so killers could choose to go against SWF or not they would all choose not to. To me that should really show how much of an issue it is if everyone would just choose to avoid them all together.
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Please explain to me how you "do away" with a function that the developers have ZERO control over.
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Not sure if you're familiar with World of Warcraft or FinalFantasy XIV group finders. If they need a healer, or a tank, and you queue as such, you get a bonus loot/gold to incentivize you to play a role you'd otherwise avoid. Introduce the same concept here.
"Hey killer, we have a SWF group looking for a killer. If you queue for this, we'll give you a bonus 10,000 bloodpoints. Since it's a more challenging match, there should be a reward for putting up with it.
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Since you can't directly fix the problem, you work around it, but you don't ignore it completely.
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I'm not sure if you are familiar with World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy XIV group finders. If they are low on tanks, or healers, there's bonus loot/gold offered to incentivize people to queue up as these roles they would otherwise avoid. Introduce the same concept here -
"Hey killer, we have a SWF group looking for a killer. There's a bonus 10k Bloodpoints in doing so."
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You fail to take into account the people that have been playing this game so long that bloodpoints no longer matter. All this does is create an underclass where new players are forced to become SWF farmbait in order to eke out a little more bloodpoints for their asinine grind.
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And even then, the bonus would have to be bigger than... 10k points.
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How would you change the SWF system? I can't think of a good solution lol
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From my view, swf is a good thing (I don't play survivor much but without swf I wouldn't play survivor at all).
I think that a better solution would be to buff the solo survivor experience so it's more comparable to swf (I've seen stuff like a communication wheel mentioned, seemed neat), then balance killers accordingly.
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Agreed. Exactly how to raise solos to something near SWF level is highly debatable though.
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I play both sides and I have rank 3 killer and rank 5 survivor. First of all I wanna clarify that SWF is not the problem at most of the situations. I wanna groups the SWF as my perspective
1- SWF with barerly use comms or use comms for small details-fun : This is my SWF group that I do. We do not known each other's perks. We dont know each other's location and sometimes and mostly we dont use comms at all. We dont burn offerings and etc... We just play our game as we see fit. Comms are not affect our gameplay and it does not affect our win-lose ratio
2- SWF with ultimate comms + information : This group is mostly the problem. They meet in secluded places to heal, they have perk synergies, one of them took Object Of Obsession sometimes to tell where the killer is to his friends. This group is the one that mostly ruined the experience for the killer. Yes they are not unbeatable but it is hard for some situations. This group selects the map, they know each others perks,locations and etc... I try to dodge that groups most of the time. I look at the lobby and if I suspect them ı just dodge but sometimes I faced againts them and I can understand them from their moves and I play my game for fun.
Overall SWF is good unless comms are abused. Because unlike solo at SWF people are not left behind and saving rates are much more greater at the EGC which makes the game more challenging and interesting for the both sides. However SWF groups that abuses informations by using 3rd party software to communicates is not a good experience for the killer and I can understand why many people are againts the SWF for that.
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If you did away with SWFs killers would need huge NERFs. Ask any killer that has competed in red ranks over the last couple of years. SWFs, while strong can be defeated regularly. And 4 solo's, with the amount of potatoes now in red ranks, would push the kill rate in to 80 percentile. Could you imagine Iri Huntress or MDR Spirit, Forever Freddy against randos, every game?
Not to mention, the loss of players. The game would definitely lose a large percentage of it's player base if you did away with SWF. I recommend embracing all aspects of the game. Play solo, killer and Swf. Then you will know how to counter it, as well how to enjoy it.
Once again, I'll ask the question, that will not be answered. Do you lose more games than you win as killer?
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Nah (:
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I mean I get the frustration, and what do we do with solo queue?
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No amount of blood points is going to have killers elect to voluntarily play against SWFs.
Don't fall into the sensationalist trap; the issues with matchmaking are much more about MMR and solo queue than they are with SWF. The only solution I'd really suggest is to let you know if you're going against a SWF, and who is partaking, so you can equip your sweaty build (or just facecamping Bubba).
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EVERY game looks like this. This time I wasn't trying cause I just needed the daily completed, but all my games are putting me against red ranks. I didn't get a single hook that game.
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So everybody who bought the game to play with friends should just be ######### out of luck and have the main reason they bought the game taken away from them?
That would be like turning around to everybody who plays killer and saying "sorry guys, you cant play killer anymore because we're removing killers and replacing them with bots at the request of survivors"
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I hate playing against SWF.
I'm really not that good of a killer to beat 4 people on coms that also min/max perks and just farm me.
And the end game chat... uhg...
Not even 60K bloodpoints is enough for me to deal with that.
It would be nice if you could turn it off, so I could stop dodging lobbys.
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Youre not...using any perks? What did you expect? to 4k as the weakest killer in the game at purple ranks without perks? You must be trolling. Theres like 4 meta perks total in those builds. Swf is not the problem here.
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These would be some nice approaches for this:
-Implement some kind of penalty for survivors who play as a group. This could be something like a repair&heal speed penalty, less hooking states, or whatever else you guys can come up with; All should be scaling with the number of premade group members.
-Give solo queue survivors a way to communicate ingame and then buff killers to be able to deal with all teams being communicated.
-Remove SWF
-Give an option to play or not against any kind of SWF.
They biggest issue is the min/max perks, OoO, and almost all of the full 4 man swf plays in such a toxic way that should be reportable or something. It discourages killers to keep playing as it's almost imposible to deal with most killers with such a strong composition (I'm talking about a really good 4swf, not 4 potatoes on discord)
The game is balanced around not being able to know 100% where the killer is and what is he doing. Having 4 man talking on discord and exchanging information they weren't able to obtain ingame is a big disadvantage.
Even then, all killers characters aren't on the same "power level" and most of them aren't able to have a chance to deal with such a strong composition like a full premade.
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why were you not using perks???
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You missed the point. It's not about win or lose, it's the fact you get 2-3 man SWF that ruin the experience. Perks or no perks, doesn't change being put against SWF and a rank system that is so broken it's not work playing killer anymore.
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The POINT was the matchmaking and getting put against SWF Groups near constantly. I'll upload a new image here in a bit
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My ideal solution has always been to bridge the gap between SWF and Solo Queue. Give survivors a communication wheel, (possibly even some proximity voice and text chat, but this would be difficult to balance), and add some additional indicators for basic game information that normally isn't possible to communicate without external comms. Rebalance killers around the idea that survivors can actually do basic communication
Also please, rework blindness to not be utterly useless against basic communication.
Working under the assumption that they aren't going to do this though because they very likely won't? Yeah SWFs should be indicated. I don't think there's any clean way you can seperate them out, but you can at least indicate to other survivors and killers who all is in a SWF.
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Darn near all killers would dodge a SWF lobby if it were indicated, as would I. Those teams would be waiting for all eternity.
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Well if you dont want to play againts SWF and suspect that lobby is SWF just dodge that lobby. Plus not all SWF's are known their perks and use comms. I am a killer main mostly but sometimes I am play survivor with my friends that I met during solo matches. We dont use any communication and we dont talk about their perks and etc.... We just enter the match and play our game and I can say that we won 6-7/10 matches which is quite nice I think. Not all SWF uses comms to gain advantage or know each other's perks. Moreover I also hate the logic that "If there is no killer survivor would not play". The same applies for killers because "If there is no survivor then killer would not play".
First of all like I mentioned not all SWF's are using comms or known each other's perks. There are groups like that which are just met during solo matches and teamed up. Yes there are tryhards that are using comms and gain huge advantage which I dont support that idea but if you are suspecting that the lobby you entered is SWF then dodge it. For example I am dodging lobbies where there is 2 or more toolboxes because I already found the gens fast and does not want rushers gameplay. I agree that game is not balanced for ranking system and you will be faced againts more experienced survivors most of the time. Yes there are problem but nerfing SWF is not a solution.
If I wanted to play with my friends why I am penalized for not found keys, slower gen speeds and etc... This is not a solution but it is a way to say that "Dont play with your friends and never group up or you will pay prices". At most of the time SWF is not the problem for killers actually. Some maps in that game are really huge and some killers does not have pressure gens mechanics which causes them to lose their game againts a good group of survivor team. What the Devs should do is that making some maps more balanced and making buff some killer mechanics so that they can pressure the gens at large maps.
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Another 4-man SWF group and broken match making. DBD, PLEASE get your ######### together... your game is going down the path of going out of business if you don't get your systems fixed. It's been YEARS - you're out of excuses. We don't want more skins, we don't want more reworked maps, we don't want nerfs, we want you to fix your matchmaking.
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Next game. This is getting old...
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Matchmaking is TRASH
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exactly if SWF wasn't an issue we'd be fine with playing against them
but every killer will end up avoiding SWF because they are a huge problem
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If that's what SWFs want, so be it.
Killers are also players. This game needs killers yet devs and SWFs don't understand how painful and stressful to go up against SWFs as a killer.
You can't make people to play against you when they don't want to.
If you want to enjoy as a survivor, you also have to respect killers to enjoy their own games.
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Another 4-man SWF.... getting really old...
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