http://dbd.game/killswitch
Keys? Still?
Why has it been so long, and they have not even touched keys but have completely took moris out of the game? Both are game changing, both are annoying and both are not healthy for the game. Yet keys are still enabled, and moris "rework" is out, but its been a long while and nothing has happened to keys.
Why have they not just disabled both the offerings, or just outright scrapped them, few would care if they totally removed them I would wager.
Really annoying being in a game, and having the survivors use a key to escape when you are starting to gain leverage in the match, only for you to realize that they still have not been touched and the reason you don't see moris anymore is because they basically have been nerfed so hard that you could say they are only good for challenges.
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Scrapping or disabling them would be impossible as there are both archive challenges and achievements related to them. While the former is mostly fine, the latter isn't as Steam, Microsoft and Sony aren't too fond of achievements having to be changed and I doubt the devs would want to make one of them impossible.
Regarding the moris being changed before keys, it's because moris are much easier to change. The only values related to them are amount of hooks and the amount of people that die to them. Keys on the other hand, are a lot harder to balance due to them having a lot more variables.
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As a killer I glance over the survivors. If I see one with a key I take Franklin's, if I feel like a douche today, I will make sure the survivor with a key dies first. I know this doesn't help if the survivor with a key is in a party with his friend on coms, because he can counter Franklin's by dropping a key for his buddy to keep, but at least I am in peace knowing I have punished someone who is abusing an archaic game mechanic that shouldn't be in the game in the first place. However, if I am playing as a survivor, I will take a key during the night sessions more often, mainly because I feel like I am getting matched with green/yellow ranks more and my chances of escaping are reduced from the beginning even before the game even starts. And EVEN THEN I will not use the key immediately as soon as the hatch spawns, I will do my best to make sure I repair gens as efficiently as possible and save the survivors risking my own safety. I will grab my dropped key from behind the tree only when I see the chases last for 10 seconds, no gens are done and Claudettes are camping in the bushes doing nothing. Oh yeah baby, I will escape through that hatch leaving you to rot in that bush, you better believe me.
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The only nerf I would give to keys is making them more rare than they are now.
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I actually disagree completely, moris ending games quicker, keys end games outright.
Even if I give you that point however that doesn't justify the premise, very much so when the clear solution is to remove both so either party doesn't hold major advantage.
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They probably can't figure out that the best change to keys is also the most simple one = changing the hatch spawning rules to appear at 5 gens completed or when there's only 1 survivor alive. No need to actually change keys at all while fixing all the major issues with them.
They fix mories in a very simple way but can't do the same for keys because reasons.
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So I have been told, but this is just excuses.
If they really wanted to they can just temp remove them, and add them back later and not have challenges for these, in fact I can not remember any challenges in which requirements are mori/keys (not to say they're aren't) but this as well doesn't justify the premise as they're can't be that many challenges with Mori/Key in name, and challenges are not as important as game balance.
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Well is that not BH's bandage to anything? Perks? Instead of directly increasing gen times by a little, they add ruin.
Instead of dealing with OP addons for items, they add Franklins, ect.
Either you are sacrificing your perk slot for a perk that might not even come into play, and if it does likely doesn't hold any weight on the game, or you are maybe stopping a surv from using a key. In both of these outcomes however, you had to put special effort in, and get lucky for this to even work out, which shouldn't be ok. It seems you realize this however.
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I would honestly not be surprised if one of the devs actually plays the game, and dislikes moris as the person is a surv main, OR if 100000 survivors were complaining about moris, so they finally were like "Ok fine, here's more favoritism".
Only logical conclusions I can see.
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Thats silly then.
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Like I say, the developers are walking on thin ice with this "Rework". Just keep in mind, if the nerf isn't to you killer mains liking, just remember the survivors are majority. That sounded so entitled 😂, my point is the developers have to think of a change which will make the majority happy so there game wont fall apart even more than it already has. All I'm saying is don't expect the nerf to be something huge, I mean come on, Imagine if the developers nerfed keys like mori's, I know that would be balanced but that would hurt the game more than the community, how am I wrong.
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The game already has a deficit of killers, so your argument is still objectively incorrect, if they keep doing this there is going to be less killers then what there already is, less killers means less games for you to play (survivors), which means more wait times, which means less survivors, which means more wait times, ect.
I am 100% convinced that if they keep doing this stuff it will bite them in the butt one day, if 10 years down the road you see a Death Of A Game Video its likely because they kept taking insane advice like what you just said.
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The other day, I found two (purple and pink) keys in one match, out of chests. And I don't even run Plunderer's. (Actually I was playing perkless...).
I thought it was a bit too much. 😅
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I read most of it, did a lot of skimming however because most of what you said boils down to simple points, your argument seems to be that because one survivors dies then the game is just over when that is not the case at all if the survivors are good as the base kit for survivors is insanely strong. Three survivor's can pop 3 gens if they are competent, because this is not a balanced game at all and never did I mean to accidently implicate it was and that keys are making it imbalanced if I did. The only exception is a great nurse, in that case the survivors would have to dc to escape they're cruel fate.
This point of keys being counterable is just bias, in that case moris pre patch were too, just don't get hooked and if you don't get downed again.The likely hood you are going to be able to realize someone is going to use a key is very unlikely considering its not clear, in fact most of the time when keys are used (ignoring bully groups) they find it in a chest, or purposely hide the entire game so they are not found. As said before too, you have to use an entire perk slot to counter a item, and this is where your point that mori being significantly better under the guise of because it only uses a offering slot goes down the drain. Very much so because as said previously, objectively instant game ending is much stronger then a drawn out game.
As with the depip, most players don't care about rank because all rank = is longer que times and harder players to vs. (assuming they didn't do something to match making again)
Games where all 4 survivors escape are rare indeed, however again typically they are used when you kill 2 players and you gain traction in the game in my experience.
This is just dumb this last part because everyone who is honest can realize both keys and moris are both trash and should not be nearly as powerful as they are/were.
Keys can still open hatch, I don't have a issue with that if:
-The hatch is blocked by the entity for that survivor in chase, so being annoying by taunting and then hatching in the face of a killer can't happen. (Wouldn't trigger during end game collapse.)
-After a survivor jumps into hatch, it closes
-3.5 seconds to open hatch
I am sure keys would not be nearly as annoying nor strong if those simple things were put into place as that's the bare minimum, so you can't use the poor argument that achievements are more important then game balance.
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Finding keys is common, although I am surprised that would happen.
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I hope the key rework is in the next chapter. I had a swf with a key, a map offering, a hatch offering and with a iridiscent map to find the hatch.
To be fair they needed it bc they played like rank 20 (they were red and purple), but something like that shouldnt be possible.
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it took them 3 years to just change a number on how many hooks mori's take to be usable, they're giving keys a full rework so itll take them at least until next chapter, if I were to guess. I'd be shocked if it came with the mid chapter. Im just annoyed that before it got its reworked they decided to add key on easy mode with the hatch offerings.
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Survivors must be appeased, so keys are still in, even if it's the expense of the killer base.
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No, I don't agree with your premise at all.
I said decent, not unbalanced. If unbalanced then either side would always be winning,
Re: Moris end games faster, keys end them outright
Strawman, the point was that as long as you are decent and can do well in chase, it is hard for a killer to even use a mori, and if gen rushing then it was common for all gens to pop before you could mori someone. At base kit, you can counter moris, unless its like a nurse, in that case as said before just dc. XD
I read "even if keys do instantly end the game", and ignored whatever was in the paragraph, if you can acknowledge that fact and still want to provide a counter argument your point is likely mute.
Again strawman, I said hide, not afk. They purposely play insanely safe, and wait until whoever can chase for the group of survs is in chase and then they do gens typically, this happens commonly in bully swf groups, and with survs who just want to be mean.
Yup and thats another paragraph I am not reading, I don't even know why you are talking about the drop rate of keys, in any sense they are common enough that if you play survivor that you will start to stack them up, and that's all that's really needed to know.
You actually are trying to win me over on a point about franklins, this is actually funny, franklins can temp disable items for m1. So its useless vs most situations, and is a perk you never will use if no items are brought. Even then its not even that useful for anything more then a filler perk.
Finally a actual point, that I still disagree with, No it doesn't make sense why you would give one side of the game a advantage that already has a very strong base kit.
Removing X from any side that has a strong counter part is just objectively not a good idea in a online game.
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Thats fair ig.
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Oh thats a meme bully squad it sounds like. XD
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The fix to keys was just as simple.
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The only problem i have with keys is that they can spawn in chests. Remove that and they usually arent a problem at all.
I cant tell u the number of games ive lost while ahead because survivors took off amd found a purple or pink key in a chest, even without plunderers they can spawn and at an alarmingly high rate.
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They were serious. But 3 of them played like new players. They tried to hide and they couldnt loop. I won with Trickster without using his power.
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Use keys is a strategy, same as camper or tunneling.
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Hopefully the delay's because they're working on a more complex rework, though this may mean on the other hand that we won't see it until like 2022, BHVR takes ages to change literally anything.
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this is such a non issue. they said in a dev interview that only 2-3% of games end with keys. sure it doesn't feel good when playing killer, but endless forum posts for 2-3% of games is silly.
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They also have to encourage more people to play killer, or survivor queue times are only gonna get worse.
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what is apprasial??? I've never heard of this.
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You know dang well the devs are already working on new ideas for cash grabs and a new game. There have been tons of bugs and the game doesnt hold water for long. which is why I have played off and on since the beginning, keys are terrible. You should have to have a minimum of 2 players with a key to unlock a hatch and it should only work if A) 3 others are dead or B) all generators are done AND the killer can see the hatch.
It is already incredibly imbalanced to have 4 adept players VS one. you cant really balance for that, so you have to accept that you cant always 4k and that is hard for most players. Mostly because of the toxic survivors in the lobby or in the game with a SWF that you have clearly been bested in. The devs cannot correct for toxic player base with buffs or nerfs, that is a slippery slope.
This game has been incredibly buggy since the day it has come out. You just have to accept that when you play it. They are a decent company when it comes to themes and artwork (now) and they are pretty terrible when it comes to gameplay and coding. Their balance is what it is, it has ebbed and flowed, they are super behind the 8-ball with implementing things that are successful in other games (SWF lobbies), parties, balancing loops, perks, etc. It is what it is. The game is fun in context. there are worse games out there and there are much better games out there.
Bhvr is a smaller company with some developers that are out of their depth when it comes to expectations the community has. Dont make this into something it isnt, it is a ton of fun and has given life to many other asymetrical games (good and bad) and remains one of the best games in the horror genre. Its not perfect and at times its almost unplayable for some characters or against some items, but eventually it ebbs back and the game flows better. Just take it for what it is and appreciate the good aspects. It has been around long enough that the community knows and accepts what BHVR is and what you can expect from the game. Laugh, have fun, hook em, loop em, and appreciate the efforts!
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That’s an option but years of stockpiling already defeats the purpose even if hoarding keys wasn’t an intentional goal. I have tons of keys but I personally never use them. I would have even more but I consciously pick medkits over keys in my bloodweb.
Then there’s the plunderers, appraisal, and coin offerings combo. They would have to make the chances of looting a key from a chest so rare that it would become an urban legend or something lol:p
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5 fully repaired generators or only 1 survivor left alive being the conditions required to spawn the hatch is nice and simple. No new mechanics need to be implemented and the overall gameplay is not drastically altered. It’s a shift towards making the hatch and key situation a little more fair and further adjustments could always be made in the future.
I’m at least in favour of this type of change being a good place to start.
• I don’t bring in keys as a survivor and I don’t mind facing them as killer but multiple survivors keying out is definitely lame in my opinion •
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"Key nerf coming soon" *inputs hatch offering into game* lol
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what is apprasial?? is that a perk?? add on? offering??
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ohhhh thanks
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The problem isn't keys. It's hatch.
Hatch should spawn only when 1 of the following 2 conditions are met:
- All the gens are done.
- Only one survivor remains.
This fixes the biggest issue with keys (more than 1 person escaping before the objective was done) while still allowing the 4 man hatch escape achievement to be doable. Also has the positive side effects of fixing "DCing for hatch" (unless a hatch offering was played of course), and the last survivor camping for hatch (unless a hatch offering was played, but then the killer knows where it is too).
Literally doable in a hotfix level patch. I saw this solution in a youtube video and there's literally no downsides.
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STOP USING ACHIEVEMENTS AS AN ARGUMENT TO NOT BALANCE THE ######### GAME.
Achievements CAN be changed so long as the achievement is no longer possible to get.
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Yet Microsoft, Sony and Steam aren't fond of changing them, neither are dbd. I'm not trying to use that as a way to say their balanced but rather they won't be changed that way because neither party would be in favour of it. That's why we still have hard achievements such as Left Behind, because they don't and won't want to go through the effort I'd presume.
Additionally, my other point is still valid.
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That's because those achievements are still possible to obtain. The huntress hatched one is an example. Steam achievements are easy to change/add, but the consoles aren't too fond of doing so. However, their policy is, as long as the achievement is still possible to obtain (doesn't matter how hard) you cannot change it.
However, if they change keys to behave differently, so that it is not actually possible to ever obtain the achievement, then sony and the like will let BHVR do it.
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Fallacy, in that case dying is too.
Anyway, an item is not a plan nor strat, this is dumb.
You can include keys into a strat, although even then you aren't even arguing vs me at this point.
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Hopefully. XD
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Only as silly as another OOO is not op argument because of low escape ratio, try again with something not fallacious (and silly) and I will consider your argument.
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I think I agree with you to some degree?
However your thinking is scary, mainly because you basically acknowledge they do cash grabs **cough cough: The last Halloween update** but then still want to give them the benefit of the doubt, which is odd.
They can get my benefit of a doubt when they don't let issues persist for years.
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When you construct an argument for me, very much so when you implicate I said or implied something and then go along with that it is a strawman.
Main reason I didn't read entire paragraphs is because you basically said the same thing, and when you didn't it was fallacious and when it was not that it was a argument that you created and finally when it was not that I disagreed strongly for reasons I gave, and lastly when it was not that I thought it was fair.
Which I already expressed, I am guessing this whole "semantics" thing is a red herring you are trying to do. Flashbang tactics prove there is something wrong with your argument, in any case, fallacies point out why a argument is irrational, nothing more.
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I agree, this would work as well.
How does this stop DCing resulting in hatch escapes however?
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I agree, already addressed when people have done this and pointed it out in this thread however though.
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This seems to be in favor of a counter argument however you have not done so by stating this so I am lost as to why you would say this unless you think that achievements are more important than game balance, which is not reasonable.
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Are achievements more important? No. Not at all. But the devs find them important and for that reason I can't see them being disabled/changed majorly.
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What is your motive in saying this?
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Moris have been basicly removed form the game and so should keys.
Especially with that wallhack addon.
Achievements can easily be changed.
Also remove hatch. We have end game collapse anyway.
Survs don't need 3+ ways to escape, especially when they did nothing all match.
Killers don't get a free kill if they do badly.
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They'd still be strong after the changes I proposed.
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