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How devs could effectively address camping. This is NOT about the legitimacy of camping as a killer
I keep seeing posts here and elsewhere complaining about the ds change and how it doesn't stop tunneling followed immediately by killer mains complaining that it didn't stop tunneling it was just used unfairly or toxicly. Here's what I can't figure out if they really want to address tunneling or camping why not target the part of the game that everyone hates, killers sitting by the hook waiting to get the guy again. Simply target that action directly. Either by something simple like the survivor hook time not going down when the killer is close or going down slowly to punish camping, or a perk that let's you mess with the killer when your on the hook again the punish the bad play directly
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Here's what you can't understand:
THEY DON'T WANT TO ADDRESS THESE THINGS, THEY ARE ADDRESSED IN THE RULES!
Tunneling, facecamping, teabagging, slugging, sandbagging, body-blocking, these are all specifically addressed in the rules, and THEY ARE PART OF THE GAME.
You can use perks to stop them, you can play to counter them, but THEY ARE NOT AGAINST THE RULES, THEY ARE PART OF THE GAME. You can either play against them or don't, doesn't matter, THEY ARE STILL PART OF THE GAME.
it's an important distinction, I'm not saying they are technically allowed, I'm saying they are SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED AS BEING ALLOWED.
TLDR: THEY ARE PART OF THE GAME
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Because,,,and this is only my guess, as I am somewhat new to the game,,,the devs have said camping and tunneling is okay. So, given this every killer main feels justified to use it as a "tactic". Its not a "tactic" to hook and sit waiting for survivors to come up,,,thats lazy game play. But it works for the most part. Killers pip and rank up and survivors are left depipping and ranking down. The only way to counter this is to run SWF and gen rush while one teammate is on the hook understanding that they get offered up to complete the game and win. When enough teams do this and killers lose every single time maybe it will stop. I am sure someone else will chime in telling me how wrong I am and that I should not play like that,,,yet they wont tell killer mains who camp and tunnel consistently from the start of the game til the end to change LOL.
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Fun Fact: This was tested awhile back on the PTB and survivors abused the hell out of it by looping the killer near the hook so the timer never went down and the other 2 survivors pounded gens. There you go :D (Edit: Also, Camaradie pauses the struggle state for survivor when you go near them for like 20-30 seconds. Can't remember which so that was also added as a way to stop the camping as a perk)
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Camping and Tunneling are strategies... bad strats... but killers are allowed to do it.
Plus there are a ton of perks to help against them. If a team is getting wiped by a camping or tunneling killer then its a l2p situation.
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See thay sounds like a big problem which would also be easily solved by simply not having it take effect while in a chase. Much like mending yourself only becomes necessary when not being chased. Easy fix. Also for the guy posting about it being in the rules with all caps because he was very serious. I was referring to how they want to discourage the practice not ban it. So I am spelling out a way that it can be done without the issues of ds because ds was made to limit camping and tunneling but it was bad because it didn't directly address the problem and was/is abused
My point was about how they could discourage camping and tunneling without causing extra problems if that's what they wanted to do. Which it seems to be because of perks like ds and the emblems sort of publishing the killer a little
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Yes ds was implemented to stop tunneling and camping....which was what I said. At first it seemed like you were just repeating what I said but then you seemed to end with since ds addresses tunneling there is already a perk to address it so don't change anything.
Unfortubatly ds (and any other perk created similar to it in the future) is a problem becuase people abused it, so the devs had to try and tweak it to stop thr abuse which. This has everyone complaining on both sides that it both stops the anit tunneling effectiveness , and was necessary to stop abuse (and although I didn't mention it earlier I've also seen plenty saying it doesn't go far enough)
Now follow closely here because this is the key point I was making. Rather than a perk that is related to the problem (ds is about getting picked up after a hook which is related to but is not the camping/tunneling problem) the devs should target the problem directly.
also against a decent camper borrowed time results in a chase where the killer follows and counts to 15 before swinging. Also doesn't work on stealth killers. Also really bad against any killer with an instant down who slug the rescuer and then count to 15
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Camping and Tunneling are strategies
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My point is, they have tried many different ways. Never worked. IF someone wants to make love to your face with their weapon, they will. Swivel hooks, invincibility frames while being unhooked, and even a hook time stop plus a perk was all added but nothing worked. Even get a bloodpoint penalty. It will never change. Sometimes, its the best option for the killer. Also, the hook time stop was based upon a radius. Letting people get free unhooks is also not healthy for the game but ruining the killers' game by making the timer never stop is even worse. Sometimes you have to get rid of someone to have any type of pressure. I don't really mind it because its just a game and I rarely get caught :D
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Why is insidious a perk? What would someone use insidious for? If someone is getting camped it takes 2 full minutes to die. It takes 80 seconds for 1 survivor to do a Gen solo with no items or perks. 3 survivors can get 3 gens completed by the early part of the struggle phase. With 40 seconds left 2 of the remaining 3 can knock out a 4th while the person on the hook dies and your down to one Gen left with 3 survivors. The counter to a camping killer is do gens.
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Don't get me wrong I know when a killer is camping the best idea is to just do gens, but people throw this perfect scenario together where each survivor is always working on a separate gen when a killer is camping. I mean there are so many variables that they leave out but 90% of the time the killer can get a 2-3k from face camping easily.
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I understand what you are saying but there are mechanics in the game to stop it or atleast make it not appealing to the killer to camp. The scenario I explained is one. If people used Kindred it would be easier, camaraderie is another to make the second stage of the hook process take a very long time. Also if the PIP system was more kind to the killer ( not an easy card but something viable ). There are ways around it. It does suck for the person on the hook if they are getting face camped but there are ways to punish campers.
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Yeah I always run BT because I feel bad for players who get that poor hand. I think Kindred needs to be moved to base kit and a lot other people agree. I'm guessing one of the devs like s'mores that's why they haven't bothered with it yet. I think camaraderie pauses only when a survivor is within 16m so it's helpful but honestly not by much.
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For me tunneling and looping are just as "scummy" they are both part of the game but they are both frowned upon
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THEY ARE PART OF THE GAME.
That is the dumbest argument ever. God loops were part of the game. The last DS was part of the game. Moris were part of the game. Old BNP was part of the game.
Just because something is part of the game doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be changed. By your logic the game should be exactly how it started without any patches because ‘It was all a part of the game’
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Yah when you read it's part of the game what he's really saying is I like to camp so leave it alone.
Again to spell it out very slowly if the devs want to have camping theb fine. My point is about how to fix camping if they want to which it seems they do. They just ho about it poorly. And can someone walk me through how having the hook timer not go down didn't stop the camping if it was tried in the past?
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What makes you think the Devs have any intention to address camping?
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Dude. This isn't about some rules lol. Why is this argument always made? It completely misses the point. Most people aren't complaining about people camping and tunneling directly, but about camping and tunneling generally, and how these are effective strategies in the game.
It's simply no fun to get tunneled or camped from the get go. And normally a video game tries to be as fun as possible for all players.
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Perks they have added which seem to be trying to penalize camping or rewarding killersbfor not camping. Killer emblems specifically penalizing camping. Someone above mentioned that they have been trying builds to address camping that survivors took advantage of.....a better question may be why did you think they weren't trying to address it?
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It is one of strategy. Just do gen.
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If a killer wants to camp or tunnel they can. It's not against the rules and they can play however they want to play. The devs have addressed the issue time and again saying that it's a tactic that the killer can use if they choose to.
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Yes... I know that you will get your emblems penalized as a killer if you camping, almost like the devs were trying to reduce camping or something... oh wait I see you quoted the part where I said the killer emblems penalize camping, so not sure why you think I didn't know about it.
Is that a thing, referring to someone's post then pretending they didn't just write it? Hey kenpachi you may not know this but killer emblems are being effected by camping...
I don't see the appeal, just seems stupid
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What is a strategy? Are you talking about camping being a strategy because if you are the entire discussion here went over your head. Try reading the begging that may help
This is not a discussion on if camping is good or bad. This is a discussion on how the devs, if they want to target camping effectively, could go about it
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Tunneling and Camping are fine when there are 2 gens left, the killer really doesn't have much of a choice unless they're playing Nurse or Spirit. Its just super frustrating when it happens at the start of the match and I believe the devs need to take Pyramid Head's teleporting cage and apply it to hooks when there are 3-5 gens. Just let the survivor teleport away from the killer once they get hooked, but once survivors complete 3 gens, the teleporting should stop.
This would immensely improve solo play, as things are now, killers have gotten lazier (it's their right, not arguing that people shouldn't play how they want) and devs should change it up to make it fun for more people.
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All whining about "camp/tunnel" is a thing of inexperienced players. Moreover, thing of inexperienced survivor-only players who use those imagined unlogical statements.
L2P is the only advice I can give. Also you can try to play killer, especially if vs SWF.
Hilarious to see the foam from the mouth and the complainings after the match for those stuff even if the killer didn't do it.
When you left 3 gens nearby in the triangle to the killer and in the centre of it have a hooked survivor... Do you offer me to go to the edge of the map and just give you ez win?
Or maybe when you do the unsafety unhook saving just in a front of my eyes? Should I chase the saver or the injured man who will be on the next hook phase if I down him?
Really guy, are u seriously asking me to MAKE YOUR GAME EASIER and surrender?
Do you even understand what you ask about? There is so weird to discuss. I have no idea what to say.
Maybe you will come to the killer and make him a gift of your self-sacrifice in the start of the game? Why not?
Sounds like the players who invented the "camp/tunnel" blaming just escaped from the asylum.
I'm done.
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Literally everything you said that survivors can do that's deemed "toxic" doesn't hurt the killer's gameplay in anyway. Meanwhile, camping/tunneling straight up force the survivor to not play.
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Face campers, whether doing it to me or to others, get the fastest possible suicide on hook that I can muster. Life is too short to be trapped in a game like that. The dev's can say they are legitimate strategies but they can't make me enjoy them. I only play games that are fun because my freetime is precious. Additionally, I sure as hell won't spend good money on a game that celebrates players avoiding engaging gameplay.
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Then why do so many killer mains do this from the start?? Let me tell you,,because with solo survivor games it works. In fact, it works so good that many solo survivors are just suiciding on the hook or DC'ing and those "experienced red rank killers" dont care they just want to win. Thats the state of this game and that is backed up from months of watching and playing. A few months ago you would NEVER see a DC player or suicides on the hook. Now, its almost every game. When someone spawns near the killer and cant loop,,,they are downed, hooked, and this is where the camping starts. Now if your that survivor,,,you figure "I will just start to play killer and do this because why deal with this crap in so many games",,,thus why we have so many camping and tunneling these days. If your the killer your thinking "why mess up a good thing, I am winning games,,,sure I may not be pipping up as much or whatever but I want that prestige killer so I will just grind the games doing this crap until I am there". The only way to combat this is to run SWF and understand one player is sacrificed (in a rotating fashion of course so everyone gets a chance) power through the gens so by the time the camping and tunneling killer even gets to the second victim we are done and at the gates. In short, if camping and tunneling are valid "tactics" why isnt this LOL?
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It may not be against the rules but the devs should take notice of something that is genuinely making people not want to play their game because it creates boring games. It forces the camped survivor to do nothing, and it forces the non-camped survivors to just sit on gens, which is boring. It means the killer does little other than standing around - which perhaps is fun for some people? But seems boring to me. You'd think the creators of a game would want to do all that they can to make the game fun rather than boring.
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There are many perks that discourage camping and tunnelling for both killer and survivor. Take your pick.
Killer: BBQ is a good one, as is Devour Hope. There's also Make Your Choice, Furtive Chase (been getting some good use out of this one lately), Play with your Food (especially when combined with Furtive or Nemesis), even No Way Out. Plus any info perks like Tinkerer, Discordance, Spies from the Shadows, etc. indirectly encourage killers to leave the hook.
Survivor: Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Camaraderie, Babysitter (lol), and one of the best anti-tunnelling perks... Sprint Burst. Seriously, killers see you zoom off into the distance and think "######### that"
They should release more perks that make camping and tunnelling less appealing though.
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Unfortunately, until they implement some sort of gen repair speed nerf the higher your rank, tunneling is a viable and fair (for the killer) strategy for most killers.
A good number of killers don't have the mobility or the power against better survivors to down fast enough and keep people off gens enough to get a spread of hooks before the gates pop. You NEED to have someone taken out ASAP so you have a chance at actually stopping the genrush and balance things out. Unfortunate for that person being tunneled, but that's how the game is set up at the moment.
A fair killer should gauge by the first or second hook what sort of team they're up against. No gens have popped? Spread the hooks. Obvious new person moves? Spread the hooks. 2 gens popped by 1st hook? Sorry, someone needs tunneling out.
Spirit/Nurse/possibly Freddy no excuse for tunneling though really if you know your stuff.
Facecamping, except at EGC, isn't fair though... However if they do it just do gens for god's sake! Punish them or they'll keep doing it!
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1. It aren't only killer mains who do it, it's also killers who play both sides who do it.
2. Easy counter to camping, don't try the rescue just rush gens and get out.
If there are survivor within 16m of the hooked survivor and the camping killer, then the killer don't lose points.
If you just do gens the killer lose points and will definitely depip.
If you want to go for the rescue then do it after the gens and with BT.
3. If you're a good looper then the killer will have a hard time when tunneling you.
If you're not then throw pallets earlier but don't run away immediately, run when he breaks the pallet.
Yup tunneling and camping isn't fun for the person who is affected by it, tho i love getting tunnelled, but these are strategies and punishes over altruistic survivors
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Everytime i see posts about this and the fact that people can't get it through their heads is astonishing.
It truly seems like the level of survivors has gone downhill to complain about camping/tunneling this much.
If you play the game, you were never under the obligation to escape. Its your job to ensure that you get out, you have 3 other people to help you achieve that goal.
You can't complain about the killer killing you since that the only thing that killers can do in the game.
If you hate being camped, its simple, don't get caught. If you do get caught there's plenty of perks to help you get away. Just because one perk is no longer able to be abused doesn't mean it's garbage or doesn't have a purpose.
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Man what is it with killer mains who like to camp having trouble reading what this discussion is about.
Apparently reading the first post is too hard for them and they must just be reading the title and jumping to conclusions. To clarify for them again this discussion is how how devs could remedy camping/tunneling if they wanted to. This is not about if the game allows camping or how to play against campers or if you shouldbjust give up when your camped. None of that.
This is about how they could change the mechanics in such a way that killers no longer choose to camp without giving giving survivors the ability to abuse the system.
I Even changed the post title so the camping killers out there can have an easier time following along. I wonder if there's a relation between how much a killer relys on camping compared to their ability to comprehend what they are reading
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Can you camping killers make up your minds, is camping some easily avoidable thing that survivors can easily beat or something necessary for killers as the only way to win. It can't be both.
And then stop whatever you decide dont post jt here because this discussion isn't about that. Ots about how the devs can change the mechanics
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Teaching survivor to work on gens if the killer is camping is key. Heavily punishing unsafe unhooks (with a redefinition that includes getting hit, instead of just downed) should do it.
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There are so many things I want to say to this.
But I'll stick to just: What? :p
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They've addressed time and again that this is never going to be changed and people can do it if they want to.
But the reason it works is because like you said "gens are boring" so they capitalise on you thinking that. If everytime someone actually camped the others just did gens and left they would stop camping because it doesn't work. But while people feed into their plan they will continue to do it.
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You clearly missed the comment saying they've tried your suggestion before in a PTB where it was abused by survivors looping the killer near the hook so the timer paused while the other two pounded out gens. If you're not gonna contribute yourself and give other suggestions for people to consider they're gonna continue talking about things in the direction of conversation this thread has gone in.
And in all fairness you can't really discuss ways to discourage camping without also discussing why it happens, it's effectiveness or lack thereof, EGC vs. early game camping, strat vs. laziness, etc.
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get rid of SWF comms and then we'll get rid of camping.
fair?
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At least your honesty about it,,,most lie and say they either never tunnel or my favy, "I only do it as a last resort" LOL. Well there is an awful lot of "last resort" killer mains out there. I think most killers realize there is real benefit in tunneling and camping unless there is a SWF team then they get spanked and cry like babies they didnt get that 50 out of 50 wins LOL.
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Like I said, at least your honest about the scummy plays lol. Kinda sad though you need a moral boost like that but hey to each his own.
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My biggest gripe isn’t the Killers who camp, or that BHVR doesn’t do more to discourage it...
My problem is with the survivors who kill themselves. We’re suppose to be a team, a 4v1, you are suppose to help me survive...even if you can not.
I know your sitting on a hook, with a killer camping, and you see your three team mates on a gen not trying to save you.
I still need you to be the bigger person and survive as long as you can. Christ, I’ve been that guy, we all have, but in SoloQ it feels like I’m the only one who gives a damn enough to waste the killers time.
They are successful and will keep camping since it takes so very little to trigger these damn survivors into killing themselves.
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Almo said insidious bubba is pretty neat I wouldn't be expecting anything
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Then make ruin a non-hex perk. Every other slowdown sucks compared and if that one (even with undying) gets destroyed and still 4 survs are alive, the pressure is just too much, you have to tunnel and camp to win.
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Just because something is a part of the game doesn’t mean it can’t be abused or it isn’t unbalanced.
If that was the case one could argue that window vaulting (when there was no entity blocker) was also A PART OF THE GAME. Yes it was, and like many other things that aren’t balanced things could change.
Nobody is arguing if it is/it is not against the rules.
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Sadly camping is a necessary evil for many killers who struggle to keep up with broken map design and insane survivor perks. Take Trickster for example, you literally cannot get kills on him without actually camping and tunneling someone. This is one strategy which he absolutely needs to even function.
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Funny how you call me a camping killer despite you not knowing anything about me whatsoever.
Cause if you did, then we would have met before or you have watched some vids of me, but then you would know I play both sides and I don't camp when I play killer.
So cut salty attitude because you got camped by someone and go rage somewhere else maybe.
About something for the devs to implement about it?
They tried as many have already told you.
And as I told you, if someone is being camped then stay away and let the killer lose points and the game
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You came into a discussion about how devs could effectively deal with camping and started posting about hiw camping is totally not a good strategy and actually it's fun to be camped when your the survivor in an attempt to derail the conversation like a camping killer who doesn't want camping to be taken away.
If you don't want me to call you a duck then don't dress up like one, walk around like one, and quack a bunch next time
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hey look the post I made just after talking about how to address that very issue. Weird how you missed it was just underneath. Clearly you can't read very well so I'm helping you out
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🤣 Keep trolling mate.
Nowhere did I say it was fun to camp or being camped.
Nowhere did I say how the devs could adres tunneling or camping.
Nowhere did I say I was a killer main nor that I camp.
But I think it's a good time to go to specsavers for some glasses.
There have been countless people saying how the devs tried something but how much it was abused.
So we will type again when you read it correctly
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