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Ruin and undying gets nerfed because it's overused. Spine chill and iron will?
Like I play killer and survivor almost equally. But on both sides these two perks are almost in every round 2-3 times. I like the perks to and use it often but when ruin and undying both got nerfed because they were overused then it also should happening to survivor perks to be fair.
Comments
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Ruin/Undying made solo que extremely painful and even though I play on swf which made it so much easier, a lot of players were struggling against it.
Spine chill and iron will won't always help a survivor in certain situations and it's still possible to sacrifice players who have those perks, but the whole ruin/undying meta really encouraged players to play swf (recommended) or bring perks that didn't fit their builds. It's somewhat hard to justify "said killer perk" vs "said survivor perk" since the roles are completely different and oppose each other, but I don't think spine chill/Iron will can really compare to the ruin/undying meta tbh.
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Was "overused" the reason given? I thought it was because it was massively overperforming
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Spinechill can be problematic and imo shouldn't work on killers like Ghostface in stealth.
Iron will is meh.. not like you can hear survivors in a chase anyway.
We will never get an extra mechanic to stall the game after undying.
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Iron will low-key never helps me, but maybe one day we'll get something new for the game that is healthy... hopefully
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Spine Chill should only work if the killer has an active Terror Radius. Other than that, those 2 perks are fine. (Scratched Mirror Myers anyone?)
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infectious fright could use a nerf, it should have a cooldown
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They were nerfed because cleansing Ruin 4 times wasn't the goal. Read the dev's notes.
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could get messy with Oblivious and Undetectable, but its hard out here for a stealth killer.
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Perks aren't getting changed because they're overused (BBQ) but because they are problematic. Ruin was just straight bad design. Undying was too opressive in it's first form, it deserved the nerf with how massive the impact of it was when it switched 4 times.
IW an SCH aren't problematic at all, both are good perks that serve a prupose without beiing overtuned. They don't need any changes at all.
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Iron Will should be on a timer like Lucky Break.
But on the other hand we do have Stridor & Bloodhound
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I thought Undying got nerfed because it just did too damn much.
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Spine Chill is literally free info and completely removes the need to be wary of your surroundings against stealth killers, so I 100% believe it needs adjustment. This is coming from someone who runs Spine Chill at all times.
Iron Will isn't as big of an issue, even if it is extremely annoying. I hope it gets some kind of change, but that's just my bias against the perk.
The nerf to Undying was pretty justified since when paired with Ruin, it was either way too strong with good rng or a little bit useful early game with bad rng.
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Ruin + Undying was definitely not nerfed because it was "overused" lmao.
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I also run Spine Chill all the time and I agree that it gives free information without having to be wary of your surroundings. Honestly? Spine Chill does too much. Giving information, increasing the number of skill checks you receive and speeding up all your actions is crazy. They should at least reduce the range on it since it currently activates when the Killer isn't even that close, for many its outside of their terror radius.
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All a killer has to do is back up to gens and it negates Spine Chill.
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Spinechill just shouldnt work on stealth killers. Inb4:"JUST MOONWALK". I can't, not as michael or ghostface. I have to look right at them to stalk. Sure other killers but michael already has enough problems on his plate.
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So are you walking backwards all game or...?
Spine Chill isn't only active when working a Gen.
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This actually a very sensible idea: Spine Chill’s activation range should be greatly reduced. 16m perhaps?
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No, if you read my post it says backing up to a gen can negate spine chill.
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You don't have to moonwalk to gens, just don't directly face the gen you're going to and it won't light up. I run Spine Chill every game and it's the only counter I have for Spirit and Nurse. Stealth killers like to complain that it nerfs them, but it really doesn't I have no idea what direction they are coming from and sometimes walk right into them. Just because someone is playing a stealth killer doesn't mean they deserve an easy first hit or instant down.
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I think a killer should get a notification that a survivor is running spine chill and I don't mean a perk needs to be implemented to fix it.
While we're at it survivors should get a notification that a killer has whispers.
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I know. I overgeneralized.
A Killer can't always be walking in a way to not activate Spine Chill though. Unless they know exactly where the Survivors are they can't be sure they are even doing things right.
I agree that Stealth Killers shouldn't get a free hit, but I still think the activation range is too far on it. Again, it gives more than just information and if you have any idea of where the Killer was you can usually get an idea of where they are coming from.
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I usually have to start off by saying I'm a killer main.
Ruin Undying was heavily unbalanced and needed to be nerfed. It gave killers undeserved wins, hell I admit there are times I didn't deserve to win while running the two before the Undying rework. Spine Chill and Iron Will are fine (Iron Will is reasonably controversial). Iron Will has screwed me over many times, but it's not unhealthy for the game. I think the combo of Iron Will + Lucky Break is a lot more heavy than Spine Chill + Iron Will because I don't see how Spine Chill synchronizes with Iron Will the way Ruin does with Undying.
I agree, Spine Chill's range being reduced would make the perk a lot more reliable. This is similar to how Whispers tier 3 is more accurate than tier 1 because it lights up when you're closer to a survivor in tier 3, but lights up when you're 48 metres way from a survivor in tier 1.
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"Spinechill doesn't nerf stealth killers" *laughs in michael whos a 7'1 tall man who requires direct line of sight to stalk and "punishes survivors for not paying attention to their surroundings". Kinda hard to accomplish his goal when theres a perk that spoonfeeds the survivors.
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Ruin + Undying was the only thing about it that was nerfed. Undying + pretty much any other hex was buffed.
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Its no different with a power that easily lets you remove a health state.
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How so? Michael needs to stalk to get out of tier 1 where hes 105%. Definitely not a good idea to stay in. Tier 2 hes no longer undetectable but has a small tr so if spinechill didnt work on undetectable itd still work on tier 2. And tier 3 doesn't really matter he has a huge terror radius. So spine chill hard counters michael at his weakest point.
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Spine chill shouldn't light up when the killer is undetectable Since the name of the effect is undetectable while spine chill Literally detects the killer
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Michael is due for a rework, his power is very dated and takes too long even if the survivors don't have Spine Chill. That doesn't mean Spine Chill needs a nerf. Sure the perk alerts survivors that the killer is looking in their direction, but it doesn't reveal what direction the killer is coming from. By the time they realize where he is, he can already have stalked that survivor.
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What even WAS the nerfs? I keep hearing about them, but they happened when I was on hiatus.
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The only thing that needs to be done for Iron Will is fixing the missing breathing.
That's it.
The Ruin+Undying nerf was justified and it's still a decent combo.
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Undying used to cause other Hex perks to hop to another totem twice or until Undying itself was cleansed. As a result, Ruin could bounce around enough to never be cleansed.
It was inconsistent, but when it worked to its greatest affect, Ruin + Undying was a mean combo that gave little option for the Survivors. NOW, it's been nerfed pretty hard, and doesn't perform nearly as well. I would argue that Haunted Grounds does a better job at guarding Ruin than Undying now, though Undying has gained a benefit when combined with Devour Hope.
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Ahh, okay! Thanks for the info. I knew that it let totems jump around, but I didn't know it was twice. I just thought it was always until Undying was cleansed.
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Iron will isnt nearly oppresive as ruin undying. While it is a really strong perk how many times can you say that you lost a game or a chase because of iron will. Iron will is strong but its not obviously strong, when people use iron will to stealth about the killer doesn't realise it. I agree spinchill should get a nerf but I think the nerf should just be you have to be in the killers TR for it to work. That solves the entire stealth klller issiue without removing its use against other killers.
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Actually, you might be right. I remember having it and playing with it, and could have sworn there was a cap of two or three hops, but I can't find any text that supports that.
Either way, it was brutal when it worked well, but now it's more consistent without the option of it doing overly well.
Also, with current Undying+Ruin, two Survivors on comms can find both totems at the same time, cleanse them at the same time, and both park slots become wasted. I don't much care for that, hence why I said I think Haunted Ground is a better guard than Undying is. I would have preferred keeping old Undying, but limiting it to 1 totem hop per Hex. That's just me, though. It would eliminate the ability to find both first and cleanse them in unison.
EDIT: Oh, it hopped infinitely, but with only 5 totems in play and two being used for a Hex, it only allowed 3 hops.
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As I understand it, just from watching Ohmwrecker footage, old Ruin (Since someone already explained Undying) also changed skill checks while repairing gens. Getting a 'good' skill check would regress the gen by 5%, instead of what it does now.
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Of all the perks you could ask to be nerfed, you target these two? Really?
I wouldn't say they're overused man. They're good, don't get me wrong - but there's so many other good perks you could be using.
Frankly, I don't know why people run Spinechill when Premonition gives you a better idea of what direction they're coming from. But that's just me.
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If "overused" was the reason, then I'd be asking about perks like BBQ, NOED, Stridor, Dead Hard, Self Care (yes, there's still loads of people using it), and Borrowed Time. Those perks are far more overused than Iron Will and Spine Chill.
Undying got nerfed because it was OP as hell. You wanna complain about second chance perks? Undying gave you 3rd, 4th, and 5th chances.
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Spine chill is fine it's no more unfair than lightborn that fully negates flashlights or actually any other perk that has any value. It has its weaknesses.
1. Non directional - it's strongest use is when you don't have any line of sight... But in these instances you don't know where the killer is coming from and can easily run into them or have to run out and be spotted.
2. Its basically useless if you have line of sight.
3. It can flash on and off which gets survivors who are skittish off gens.
4. Killer can just not stare directly at the gen when they're at 32m.
5. The speed increase is like 1 stack of thanatophobia so practically irrelevant especially as survivors generally don't sit with it on at a gen if it's staying lit up the whole time.
It doesn't need a nerf or a change just adapt around it. Same as BBQ, players need to adapt and go in lockers or change direction after 4 seconds.
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If a perk is used a lot the community assumes its OP.
-The History of DBD. Vol 1
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True 🤣
It's like anytime someone has a rough game against a perk (as killer or survivor) they find a complaint about it.
Perks are not the as much of an issue as SWFs or play-styles- these suck and ruin it WAY more imo.
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part of why ruin/undying got nerfed because it carried a lot of mediocre killers in matches so this way you need to actually put more effort. Sorry but if i'm playing solo I shouldn't have to go around the map cleansing 4 hex totems that's too much of my time.
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Chapter 1
Hex: Ruin and the art of slowing the game down... just a little bit
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I remember when spine chill and Premonition didn't work on Michael. I can't tell if it was good or bad.
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You know someone is pulling at straws when they compare spine chill/iron will to ruin and undying simply because DS got nerfed already.
Iron will is perfectly fine.
Spine chill has some issues but is counterable by just looking away a bit when approaching. That relies on actually knowing where the survivor is though is the catch... It is clearly better than premonition and it don't take much thought to figure out why. Premonition needs a buff if anything and spine chill could use some type of change maybe.
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Spine chill and iron will is fine. Ruin+undying was nerfed because of how it over preformed. I run spine chill and iron will and its just fine
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*Dead hard/Sprintburst/Unbrekable* ahem let me introduce myself
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Spine chill should not activate if killer is under Undetectable status.
Iron will only works while you are injured, so I think of it as balanced perk and don't want to change it.
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It was nerfed because it was statistically over powered; making games frustrating regardless. Everyone was using it because it was over powered.
Too strong = Everyone uses it.
Self care, everyone uses it (for some reason) = Not strong at all.
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Spinechill shouldn't work against stealth killers. Premotion should be used for counter them. current spinechill is overshadowing premotion.
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