Detection and stealth perks buff
Given the increase of perks that show the Aura or the position of the survivors, I think it is appropriate to strengthen the detection perks of the survivors. In addition, the stealthy style must be encouraged, also to prolong the duration of the trial, strengthen the atmosphere of tension and reduce the urgency of repairing the generators, which in turn triggers the urgency of finding and sacrificing the survivors, in a frenzied vicious circle, not fun for everyone (longer the trial, greater the fun and the rewards in bloodpoints!). Finally, making the detection and stealth perks more appealing might lead some survivors to renounce other powerful perks (Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst, Unbreakable, for example).
I'm often a solo survivor and need to hide to have a chance, and my need is even more urgent because of survivor nerfs recently done to reduce the SWF power.
CALM SPIRIT: Animals seem to trust you stay calm in your presence.
Reduces chances of alerting Crows by 80/90/100%.
Your calm spirit can overcome the urge to scream due to Madness, Intoxication or getting injured by the Killer, the whine after a landing and the breath due to a run.
DANCE WITH ME: When performing a fast vault or leaving a Locker in a sprint, you leave no Scratch Marks for 3/4/5 seconds.
Dance With Me has a cool-down of 40/30/20 seconds.
DISTORTION: Read https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/32740/distortion-is-unreasonably-too-weak
IRON WILL: You're able to concentrate and enter a meditative-like state to numb some pain.
Grunts of pain when injured or in dying state are reduced by 50/75/100%.
KINDRED: Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading ability.
While you're on the Hook, 1 random Survivor's/All Survivors'/All Survivors' and the Killer's (in an 16m radius around the Hook) Aura(s) are revealed to all other Survivors.
Kindred trumps any of the Killer's stealth abilities (except the Shape's Evil Within I).
LEFT BEHIND: Read https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30822/left-behind-buff
LIGHTWEIGHT: Your running is light and soft, making your tracks harder to follow.
Scratch Marks stay visible 1/3/5 seconds less than normal and your footsteps sounds are reduced by 50/75/100%.
PREMONITION: Read https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/49332/premonition-buff
QUICK & QUIET: You do not make as much noise as others when you are quickly vaulting over obstacles or hiding in Lockers.
The vault and hide actions' noise detection and audio range is reduced by 100%.
This effect can only be triggered once every 20/15/10 seconds.
SOLE SURVIVOR: Read https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/35684/sole-survivor-rework-or-buff
SPINE CHILL: Read https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/45911/spine-chill-buff
WINDOWS OF OPPORTUNITY: Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading ability.
Auras of Pallets and vaults are revealed to you when within a range of 20/22/24 metres.
Windows Of Opportunity has a cool-down of 40/30/20 seconds when vaulting or dropping a Pallet during a Chase.
Freely express your opinions, analytically reporting the corrections you consider appropriate, please. 
Comments
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Calm Spirit suuure
Dance With Me - either one or another not both
Iron will - instead i would add "in dying state its reduced by 25% at all ranks
Kindred - okay
Left Behind - thay would be interesting
Lightweight - nope
Premonition - Why? CD okay
QandQ - em why? Like 20 aint big. (I would buff Vigil that way
Spine Chill - again why
WoO - 50/40/30 sec + 4 meters
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Calm Spirit: I don't think the two additions you added would make much a difference, I think just having it literally affect all screams in the game would do.
Dance With Me: Even with that buff I doubt people would take it. Perhaps if it were;
"When starting to run you leave no Scratch Marks for 1/2/3 seconds. Dance With Me has a cool-down of 50/40/30 seconds."Iron Will: If a Survivor in Dying state made zero noise there's a good chance that if they got out of sight from the Killer they'd never be found again lol. Perhaps if it were;
"Grunts of pain caused when in the injured or dying state are reduced by 60/70/80%."Kindred: Not much of a change and honestly seeing the Killer has never made much a difference, but what about;
"While you're on the Hook, 1 random Survivor's/All Survivors'/All Survivors' and any of the Killer's traps (in an 16m radius around the Hook) Aura(s) are revealed to all other Survivors."Left Behind: That or simply the Killer doesn't receive a notification when a Generator is completed, but can still see the Generator's Aura. Even then Left Behind would be a rather Niche and useless perk though, it needs a total rework to become viable.
Lightweight: As a Killer main and also as a Survivor who runs Lightweight, I can tell you that Scratch Marks remain visible on the ground for a total 7 seconds (Technically 9 but they're so faded by 7 seconds they can't be seen). Lightweight currently reduces that to a total of 4 seconds, what you're suggested would reduce it even further to a total of 2 seconds at which point there wouldn't be much of a trail to follow at all and Killer's would constantly lose track of a Survivor (especially in the cornfield levels). As it is now Lightweight does its job just fine.
Premonition: While I understand what you're going for, at 0 to 12 metres you'd bloody well be able to see the Killer, and at 12 to 24 metres you'd also likely see them. Right now it works as a longish range detection tool and I think it's fine as is (I run it myself as well).
Quick & Quiet: No real need to halve the cooldown, it works just fine as it is.
Spine Chill: While I disagree with your changes, I do think it's currently a weaker perk as it is only active when the Killer is actively looking in your direction. Perhaps if it had a 10s cooldown but remained on for 10s after they looked in the Survivors direction that would be more beneficial to the Survivor in question.
Windows of Opportunity: Honestly speaking, the cooldown could be removed entirely and it wouldn't make much a difference, anyone with an ounce of memory can remember where things were highlighted even after dropping something down on the Killer and such. It's more of a detection tool rather than a must need during a chase, you just have to learn to map things out in your head.
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Calm Spirit - I like the idea of removing the grunt from falls. That would not be much of a buff and still situational, but cool when you can use it cause that grunt is a dead giveaway.
Left Behind - The loss of aura would giveaway this perk. The perk is pretty useless for sure, highly situation if you need those two gens done for the hatch or almost done with the last gen, but how often does that come up. Doing gens being the only survivor is pretty much a death sentence. Probably needs a whole new rework.
Windows of Opportunity - The cool down is pretty high as it is right now. Some people think the perk is a waste if you know where the pallets are to begin with, but it can also inform you about which pallets have already been used by others and some limited detection when a killer breaks one near you.
No opinions on the others.
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- Finally, making the detection and stealth perks more appealing might lead some survivors to RENOUNCE (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHA u make my laugh git gud bro) other powerful perks (Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst, Unbreakable, for example)
more making OP survivors? NO THANKS.
DS remove
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@Aerys said:
Spine Chill: While I disagree with your changes, I do think it's currently a weaker perk as it is only active when the Killer is actively looking in your direction. Perhaps if it had a 10s cooldown but remained on for 10s after they looked in the Survivors direction that would be more beneficial to the Survivor in question.The whole point of Spine Chill is being able to tell when the Killer is looking at you, not the effects (except maybe skillcheck odds against Freddy). If it remained on for 10 seconds, then the perk loses its potential because the killer might have looked at your general direction for a second, and then you would not be able to tell he looked away.
I really like Spine Chill the way it is now.3 -
No more aura reading buffs for anybody please. Reinforced stealth is fine but lets keep the auras as limited as possible.0
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I'm all for the Left Behind suggestion.
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@Milo @Aerys @darktrix @pandorayr @PigNRun @DemonDaddy @Kind_Lemon None of the changes that I have proposed can seriously affect a killer: I only hope that the perks I have indicated are made more attractive, and make a real contribution to the secrecy or detection of threats or opportunities. For example, reducing the Windows of Opportunity cool-down simply means allowing you to see more than one pallet / vault per chase: if, after using a pallet / vault, your perk goes off for 40 seconds, then it's useless, because almost always you see the first pallet / vault with your own eyes and after 40 seconds you have already been downed and probably hooked up, so the only consequence of keeping it in this state is to see it discarded by all the players. In the same way, which high-ranking survivors equip Quick & Quiet or Lightweight? Nobody: these perks are considered useless junk.
If Calm Spirit silences noises other than moans of pain, then it must silence them all; if Iron Will allows the survivor to suffer without betraying his position, then every kind of suffering must benefit from this concealment; if the developers have decided that the killer within 16 meters from the hook is a camper that deserves a penalty in the emblems, then I expect that Kindred III reveals to the companions of the hooked such undeserving camping; if Lightweight makes the traces of the run more elusive, then it must offer a concrete possibility of evading the chaser ... In other words, if a perk has a specific purpose, and often unique, it must be strong, decisive, in pursuing this purpose: who spends a slot to get help in a certain field must profit considerably respect to those who make a different choice, otherwise they do not perceive the sense of that investment and discard the perk. A perk discarded by a player corresponds to a tactical choice (those who prefer high risk playstyle do not equip Dance with Me), but a perk discarded by almost everyone is simply a waste of game programming: it means that it is not up to expectations, it is not remunerative enough, it does not stand the competition with the others, and then it must be strengthened. Which killer would use Enduring if the stun reduction were 20%? Nobody! Those investing on Enduring expect an almost total immunity from stunning, a significant tactical advantage in chases, so 50/60/75% are sacrosanct percentages to make it palatable: no one chooses the crumbs, alms are not appealing!
Regarding Premonition and Spine Chill, it is not true that at 12 meters the killer is always seen with your own eyes: there are many maps full of walls, rooms, obstacles, and games against stealthy killers. If you use Premonition and you cannot tell if the Pig is 10 or 30 meters ahead of you in the cornfield, how do you decide whether to leave the generator or continue? What kind of information do you get? You are forced to wait for her to appear before you, and then it is too late, or to leave beforehand, living in the terror of false alarms. The same goes for Spine Chill: is the Wraith really aiming at you or is it simply passing or busy chasing some of your mates? The distance bands 0-12 / 12-24 / 24-36 meters are very convenient and reasonable, and correspond to the three tiers, so they are easy to implement: with the perk of tier 1 you are warned against an imminent danger, with the perk of tier 2 you have a bit more time to escape, with the perk of tier 3 you are practically protected against ambushes, but if the extension of perceptive capacities is not accompanied by a differentiation of the severity of the danger, then you are continually exposed to false alarm, and the perk of tier 1 may prove, paradoxically, better than that of tier 3, due to its greater precision.
I find it ridiculous to even think that the buffs I have suggested can put a killer in crisis: they are secondary, rather weak and often situational perks (Calm Spirit is excellent against the Doctor and the Clown, otherwise it is rubbish, and there is no Spine Chill that holds against a Spirit, a Nurse or a Hillbilly that dart like arrows to you!), nothing comparable to Deliverance, Decisive Strike or Unbreakable, so much so that they are disdained by almost all the high-ranking survivors that I have ever met in all my survivor games or killer matches. There is nothing wrong with transforming them from decorations to perk properly so called, endowed with a real and not marginal utility. I believe in powerful perks, both for killers and survivors: those who choose a perk must have a tangible advantage compared to those who do not possess it; it must be something more than a simple colored icon at the bottom right of the screen, it must, in short, make the difference. In all the threads I have opened or to which I have contributed my position has always been to strengthen the perks, not to make (or leave) them insignificant.
@not_Queen @Patricia @Peanits @Suggestive I offer my reflections, and everyone's contributions, to your prudent and wise appreciation.
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@pandorayr said:
- Finally, making the detection and stealth perks more appealing might lead some survivors to RENOUNCE (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHA u make my laugh git gud bro) other powerful perks (Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst, Unbreakable, for example)
more making OP survivors? NO THANKS.
DS remove
The thing is, it wouldn't make survivors more OP, because survivors use the most OP perks. It would only create more perk diversity because their powers are more balanced among the sea of perks.
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I want them to combine Iron Will and Quick and Quiet with Calm spirit and make just 2 perks out of them - the crows part go to Quick and Quiet and the urge to scream goes to Iron Will cause I really want to use these effects but just can't afford so many slots for random things that I may not need every game
For Lightweight the buff I'd like to see is for example when you do a gen for atleast 10 seconds the next time you start running /in the next 3-4 seconds after you stop doing the gen/ you dont leave scratchmarks for 3 seconds / it is possible not to work with movement speed buffs if its too strong - it is hard to tell about that/2 -
Other contributions from stealthy playstyle lovers?
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Maybe, but the answer to your aura being shown are Distortion ( which needs more tokens) and loCKErs
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@MyNamePete I can guarantee you that I am the only survivor trying to reach a locker when somebody is downed. XDAnd yes, Distortion needs more tokens...What about the other perks?1
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Less immersion, please. The reason people like me (with over 1k hours at least) keep playing is for the interactions between survivor and killer. Hide and seek gets old really quick on both sides. You already got Distortion (which is alrready ridiculous as-is) and locker aura blocking, you don't need any more stealth buffs.0
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@Maximus7 said:
Less immersion, please. The reason people like me (with over 1k hours at least) keep playing is for the interactions between survivor and killer. Hide and seek gets old really quick on both sides. You already got Distortion (which is alrready ridiculous as-is) and locker aura blocking, you don't need any more stealth buffs.People like you deserve the utmost respect, but they are not the universal unit of measure for all players: each of them prefers one or more aspects of the game, and they are all equally worthy of consideration.
Moving on to the practical side, I've never seen killers complaining about Iron Will or Windows of Opportunity or Dance with Me, and I've almost never seen survivors using them. Making the perks I listed in the opening post more desirable means to create a strong competition with the inflated combination "Adrenaline (or Borrowed Time) + Decisive Strike (or Deliverance or Urban Evasion) + Dead Hard (or Sprint Burst or Lighte or Balancing Landing) + SelfCare (a large majority of survivors use it)": the game would gain in variability, and those perks would not take the mold on a shelf.
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We don't complain about Iron Will because it's a really good but not OP perk. It's how good perks should be. Dance is underrated, Windows is average. Stealth for a purpose (juking out the killer when you're about to be found) is fine and all, but being immersed and stealthing the entire time is boring to play against for everyone involved.Entità said:@Maximus7 said:
Less immersion, please. The reason people like me (with over 1k hours at least) keep playing is for the interactions between survivor and killer. Hide and seek gets old really quick on both sides. You already got Distortion (which is alrready ridiculous as-is) and locker aura blocking, you don't need any more stealth buffs.People like you deserve the utmost respect, but they are not the universal unit of measure for all players: each of them prefers one or more aspects of the game, and they are all equally worthy of consideration.
Moving on to the practical side, I've never seen killers complaining about Iron Will or Windows of Opportunity or Dance with Me, and I've almost never seen survivors using them. Making the perks I listed in the opening post more desirable means to create a strong competition with the inflated combination "Adrenaline (or Borrowed Time) + Decisive Strike (or Deliverance or Urban Evasion) + Dead Hard (or Sprint Burst or Lighte or Balancing Landing) + SelfCare (a large majority of survivors use it)": the game would gain in variability, and those perks would not take the mold on a shelf.
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My point basically is you already have the stealth tools you'll ever need. Use them to your advantage. Distortion, Urban Evasion, and Iron Will are all amazing perks, your stealth tools are already there. Any more and it'll be too easy to stay hidden forever.0
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@Maximus7 I do not speak of survivors who spend time wandering around on the map without doing anything (they don't reach high ranks!): no, I refer to players who make the generators, cleanse the totems, save their mates, but prefer to avoid chases and loops with a healthy caution moving from one goal to another, unlike those who, just as legitimately, enjoy keeping the killer busy for long minutes. Different and complementary strategies, both worthy.
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@Maximus7 said:
Less immersion, please. The reason people like me (with over 1k hours at least) keep playing is for the interactions between survivor and killer. Hide and seek gets old really quick on both sides.Really? Just because you play like that doesn't mean everyone plays like that. I have around 1.4k hours and I enjoy stealth. This is a horror game, not a running simulator. Running is circles around pallets gets old pretty quick, but most people have no other choice, because stealth is dead because of killers' aura reading abilities.
@Maximus7 said:
You already got Distortion (which is alrready ridiculous as-is) and locker aura blocking, you don't need any more stealth buffs.The only thing that is ridiculous is killer's aura reading, when you get to see survivors' locations without any tracking effort whatsoever. It breaks the game for those who liked it because of stealth, and it has already made all killer tracking perks obsolete. Existing stealth perks don't trump all kinds of aura-reading and you have to equip 3-4 stealth perks to block some of the aura reading abilities, but not all of them (BBQ, Doctor, Legion etc). And Distortion only has 3 tokens, unlike BBQ. THIS is ridiculous. And if Distortion is "ridiculous" with its silly 3 tokens, then BBQ is just game-breaking.
Stealth perks need serious buffs. I hope the DEVs will hear us.
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I wonder what happened to my post, it just disappeared.
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@Troman Very strange! O.o Report it to a Mod in https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/categories/forum-feedback
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@Entità said:
@Troman Very strange! O.o Report it to a Mod in https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/categories/forum-feedbackIt looks like after an edit this forum will sometimes forward your post for reviewing and it causes it to disappear temporary.
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Other contributions of stealthy (solo) players? We need good resources to survive without friends and voice chats...
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Lightweight: Your running is light and soft, making your tracks harder to follow.
Scratch Marks stay visible 3/4/5 seconds less than normal. Lightweight is not active during chases and it is also on cooldown for 20 seconds after a chase ends.This way the killer doesn't have to worry about loosing the survivor in/right after a chase because of it while at the same time it now allows survivors to run away from worked on Generators more safely (they might get seen directly though, which doesn't make this perk OP)
Windows of Opportunity: Remove the cooldown completely.
Left behind: You'll get the job done ... No matter the cost. If you are the last Survivor remaining in the trial, you only need 30/25/20 seconds to fully repair Generators. Leaving a Generator removes all the progress.
If I am spending a perk slot on something as situational as Left Behind it had better be decent. The killer will come to me as soon as I pop that Generator anyway...
What about Technician? That perk has a lot of potential too.
Technician: If you are the last one to touch a Generator, when you leave it, you turn it off, hiding all signs of progression for 5/10/15 seconds.
(The progression on that Generator is hidden for both the Killer and the Survivors; if a Survivor touches the gen, the progression becomes visible again)
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I love those ideas.
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As a Killer main I would much rather the game be primarily about stealth than chases. I even downloaded this game in the first place so I could play an asymmetric stealth game and not an asymmetric running game.
Personally Whispers and Spies from the shadows are my favorite tracking perks, because one is simply a nudge in the right direction that is useful for avoiding frustrating moments where I cannot find anyone because I'm looking when they aren't even near me and the other is simply a way to punish people trying to rush and is mostly for keeping track of someone who is out of sight in a chase (I play spirit so this matters a lot more than normal)
As a survivor I really think your goal should not be to get distance in a chase (although that will obviously help) but instead to get out of sight as quickly as possible. That is why I personally think Quick and Quiet is an amazing perk, you can use it to hop into a locker or a window they didn't expect you to use mid chase.
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Oh yeah. Should probably mention that quick and quiet doesn't need the buff. Unlike the other perks on here quick and quiet does it's job well enough that it has sufficient use.
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