Quick Fix: Nurse
Let's make this short and sweet, unlike most of my posts. Nurse, she's a menace and overpowered, anyone that wants to disagree can see themselves through the wall and into some other thread please. Now, what is the issue at hand? Simply put it's her ability to blink whenever she wants and over vast distances. Don't get me wrong, this is the Nurse's power and I in no way think her ability to blink should be destroyed. Neigh, it isn't blink itself that's the problem but how it is applied. Having an unlimited cooldown she can charge up her blink and travel vast distances at will, allowing her to blink two additional times to more accurately find her target to attack before she has a coughing fit. While in theory there is a plus and a negative to balance her out, in practice it's anything but. Being able to blink wherever and whenever allows her access to the strongest map control and anti-loop capabilities any Killer has. While someone has to be at the top, she is by far at the top and then some, unless it's a bad nurse you can expect her to 4K.
So, below are the simple yet meaningful changes I would recommend for her.
- Change her movement speed to 4.4m/s similar to The Hag, The Huntress, and The Spirit.
- Remove the cough drawback from the Blink mechanic.
- Change her Blink to have a maximum of three charges. Using her special ability (M2) will act as normal but with a slightly reduced range. Have one charge of Blink recover after 10 seconds (or so, fine tuning would be done for balancing her out obviously).
So, how would this balance her? Well for starters she'd still be somewhat slow, but not so slow as to never catch a Survivor without Blink, which would give her somewhat of an actual chase phase rather than a "Hey I'm here WHACK" phase. This combined with her Blink would allow her to still mercilessly hunt down Survivors, but without her limitless Blink she'd have to use them more wisely, does she want to travel across the map in one fell sweep? Well, she'll probably be without Blink for 30 seconds then. And therein lies the balance, having to choose between traveling and hunting, perhaps opting to keep one on hand at all times, or perhaps simply using one to travel distances but making up the rest of the distance on.. float. It would restrain her into using her Blinks with forethought rather than just using it willy nilly.
That is all. Comments, concerns, and constructive criticism are all welcome, happy hunting out there. Or surviving, if you're into that sort of thing.
Comments
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I think teleportation in general was a bad idea for a killer power in a game where the killer is supposed to be melee only. What's the point of having distance on the killer if they can close the gap immediately?
It's utter nonsense that BHVR would create a killer that ignores almost all the game rules and mechanics that they put in place. Sure, some killers like Huntress, Doctor, and Myers can "break" a rule or two when certain conditions are met, but Nurse breaks almost every single one that gives survivors a chance when being chased. Her power has no ammo system, and the drawback of getting fatigued for a second hardly makes a difference once you've hit a survivor and can track them by their blood, scratch marks, and grunts of pain. Comparing her to other killers:
Huntress can shorten pallet loops and break window vaults, but only IF she has hatchets AND she has enough time to wind up AND she must have line of sight of the survivor.
Doctor can break pallet loops and window vaults, but only IF he's in range AND he times his shock well AND he's in Therapy mode AND he must endure a move speed penalty.
Myers ignores the injured health state, but only IF he's spent a significant amount of time to reach Evil Within III AND he's within melee range AND he sacrifices his smaller terror radius.
Nurse? IGNORES pallet loops, IGNORES window vaults, IGNORES pathing blockers, IGNORES height differences, IGNORES distance gaps, and with additional chain blink addons, IGNORES her own mistakes and her power's cooldown.
Unlike other killers, Nurse's power has very few conditions it needs to meet to be effective. At high ranks, Nurses often end chases within 10 seconds. From there she uses BBQ to find her next victim and snowballs the rest of the game (similar to Hillbilly). She murders far too quickly for Survivors to do anything. Just because she requires a little more skill than other killers doesn't mean she should be allowed to ignore the vast majority of game mechanics everyone else has to obey.
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Okay, I don't know what that has to do with my rework though :0
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Theres nothing wrong with nurse in the current state of the game.... when the changes that need to be fixed happen then maybe we could make suggestions ... even as nurse is now shes not OP. . When I started playing I couldn't just hop on and 4k even at rank 20... because nurse rewards the player for getting better doesn't mean she needs rework or she needs nerf
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Shine your flashlight on her, and she can't blink.
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@Bravo0413
I don't deny that it takes a bit of practice to master her or that she doesn't take skill to play, but it's no secret that she's not only the top ranked Killer but somewhat broken due to the aforementioned facts of ignoring every gameplay mechanic Survivors have to defend themselves against Killers.@Rebel_Raven
Gee thanks, I'll get on that when she's half way across the map xD not only that but Survivors don't know which Killer they'll be going up against so while some might bring a flashlight others might bring a medkit or toolbox, or rarely a key or map. Searching the chests on the map doesn't necessarily mean you'll find flashlights for everyone let alone a flashlight for one either. Simply put, unlike The Hag who you can get by without a flashlight, The Nurse has no method of dealing with without one, nor from a distance with one.0 -
Nurse is fine. Her power is highly rewarding if you use it correctly and equally punishing if you fail.
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@Orion
Yuh huh, and at the high ranks you're saying a person who's put dozens of hours into Nurse is going to fail her jumps frequently? We aren't talking about the bad Nurse players when talking about balance, we're talking about the ones who can use her power to the fullest, when balancing a game that's always what you're talking about. So can you, and the rest of you, say that Nurse is completely balanced and not stronger than every other Killer by far when played at her fullest potential?0 -
@Aerys said:
@Orion
Yuh huh, and at the high ranks you're saying a person who's put dozens of hours into Nurse is going to fail her jumps frequently? We aren't talking about the bad Nurse players when talking about balance, we're talking about the ones who can use her power to the fullest, when balancing a game that's always what you're talking about. So can you, and the rest of you, say that Nurse is completely balanced and not stronger than every other Killer by far when played at her fullest potential?Yes, if a player can play her perfectly, she's the strongest Killer by far, but not because of any inherent advantage. Most Survivors nowadays only know how to loop. They never learned how to win chases; only how to delay them. The Nurse cannot be looped, so, naturally, they lose, because she takes away the one thing they know how to do.
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@Orion said:
@Aerys said:
@Orion
Yuh huh, and at the high ranks you're saying a person who's put dozens of hours into Nurse is going to fail her jumps frequently? We aren't talking about the bad Nurse players when talking about balance, we're talking about the ones who can use her power to the fullest, when balancing a game that's always what you're talking about. So can you, and the rest of you, say that Nurse is completely balanced and not stronger than every other Killer by far when played at her fullest potential?Yes, if a player can play her perfectly, she's the strongest Killer by far, but not because of any inherent advantage. Most Survivors nowadays only know how to loop. They never learned how to win chases; only how to delay them. The Nurse cannot be looped, so, naturally, they lose, because she takes away the one thing they know how to do.
This, I'm also terrible at looping which made me a better player overall since i tend to play more stealthily and also worked on losing a killer not by looping. You can bait her blinks, listen for how long she channels as you're moving. Above all else don't try and lose her in a wide open area since that's death against a great nurse.
Lose los and then do unexpected things while sneaking off, act like you're going to jump through that window and then don't. You think she's op wait until she face a master nurse player trolling you with 5 blinks, that's op. If you really want to screw with the nurse pick a cornfield map and play stealthy, use UE, Lithe, Fleet Footwork etc.
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@Orion
I'm not sure how to explain to you that the ability to warp through walls and prevent pallets/windows from being of any use is in fact an inherent advantage she has, but disregarding that, tell me, how do you face a Nurse and survive her "chase"? What are the other things Survivors can learn how to do that will make playing against Nurse a winnable endeavor? Yes, having a flashlight can certainly help, but let's say you were unlucky enough to not be part of the flashlight brigade nor did you find one within the limited chests on the map, how does one face her in this scenario?1 -
@powerbats
Right but let's say she's not as blind as a doorknob and does spot you, how long does your screwing with her last you compared to the average Killer chase? I've faced a lot of Survivors who try to vanish into thin air, and while Claudette can do it rather well typically I look down at my feet and to the left or right and there they are with their face pressed up against a wall or tree or etc. Good Killers aren't tricked by that sort of thing too often, though yes it does happen.0 -
If she's half way across the map, what are you worried about?Aerys said:@Rebel_Raven
Gee thanks, I'll get on that when she's half way across the map xD not only that but Survivors don't know which Killer they'll be going up against so while some might bring a flashlight others might bring a medkit or toolbox, or rarely a key or map. Searching the chests on the map doesn't necessarily mean you'll find flashlights for everyone let alone a flashlight for one either. Simply put, unlike The Hag who you can get by without a flashlight, The Nurse has no method of dealing with without one, nor from a distance with one.
Flashlight light burns cloaked wraiths, stops nurses from blinking, and can destroy hag traps.
Plus they blind every killer. Flashlight saves, blinding them during vaults, breaking pallets, etc.
Even if you don't blind a killer, they can't just keep looking straight ahead. You can get partial blinds off, or make them not watch where they're going.
Plus even if you're no good with them, clicking it can make you a distraction.
People escape the nurse. You can see her blink path.
You can't counter everyone at the same time.
Nurse needs her blink ability to apply map pressure, fight loops, etc. She's one of the few that can stand up to sweaty SWF groups.1 -
@Rebel_Raven
I am in no way advocating we get rid of her Blink ability either, what I've described to everyone is the base kit, you slap some addons on on.. on her and you'd still be able to achieve greatness (maybe +1 charges, -1s cooldown, etc) but she'd be slightly more reasonable is all. Typically the only times I get blinded are during a pallet smash, If I'm picking someone up it's always done looking at a wall, and the clicking of a flashlight doesn't distract me, I just make a mental note of where their clicking is coming from. I'm also aware flashlights burn cloaked Wraiths T-TAll in all, once a Nurse has you in her sights there's very little you can do to delay being put on a hook and that's somewhat against the nature of the game. Every other Killer has some sort of method to dealing with them that doesn't include an item, the Nurse's is literally just "Don't ever be seen", which is the first step of dealing with every other Killer anyhow >__>
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@Aerys ...That would be a buff in some senses. It would take two blinks to get near a survivor and smack the survivor. Then the Blink would be recharged, so the Nurse would then blink twice and down the survivor. With no fatigue and no tremendous speed penalty, she would be like the Spirit but with the capability to travel through walls and see survivors and auras while using her power.
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@Kind_Lemon
Thinking about it you're kind of right. That's why I said the charge cooldown time would need fine tuning, because without play testing it's hard to say what would be too long and punishing and what would be too short and broken xD0 -
No, you're not trying to take away her blink. You're just advocating for nerfing it into the ground, more or less. Her ability to create pressure would be immensely divided between pressure on generators, and chases.Aerys said:@Rebel_Raven
I am in no way advocating we get rid of her Blink ability either, what I've described to everyone is the base kit, you slap some addons on on.. on her and you'd still be able to achieve greatness (maybe +1 charges, -1s cooldown, etc) but she'd be slightly more reasonable is all. Typically the only times I get blinded are during a pallet smash, If I'm picking someone up it's always done looking at a wall, and the clicking of a flashlight doesn't distract me, I just make a mental note of where their clicking is coming from. I'm also aware flashlights burn cloaked Wraiths T-TAll in all, once a Nurse has you in her sights there's very little you can do to delay being put on a hook and that's somewhat against the nature of the game. Every other Killer has some sort of method to dealing with them that doesn't include an item, the Nurse's is literally just "Don't ever be seen", which is the first step of dealing with every other Killer anyhow >__>
Considering the unreasonable demands some survivors generate, the nurse doesn't need to be reasonable just yet.
Deciding that you're too good with the nurse to nerf her for everyone else? Maybe you should try the Spirit, or Wraith? Or Billy even though he's being hailed as top tier, too?
Look, breaking line of sight, and hiding, or being so evasive that the killer gives up are about the only alternatives to being hooked in a chase short of running through the gate or hatch.
Unless I'm missing something?
Not everyone will be as keen of a hunter as you are.
Sorry if I'm ranting too much about flashlights. There's been a rash of people calling them useless.
My experience on the recieving end, and watching vids of people using them are saying otherwise.
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@Aerys said:
@Orion
I'm not sure how to explain to you that the ability to warp through walls and prevent pallets/windows from being of any use is in fact an inherent advantage she has, but disregarding that, tell me, how do you face a Nurse and survive her "chase"? What are the other things Survivors can learn how to do that will make playing against Nurse a winnable endeavor? Yes, having a flashlight can certainly help, but let's say you were unlucky enough to not be part of the flashlight brigade nor did you find one within the limited chests on the map, how does one face her in this scenario?Don't get into a chase in the first place, for example. Killers are not omniscient, and despite what some people might think, wallhacks are exceedingly rare. powerbats pointed out a few other counters. Again, the problem boils down to Survivors not knowing how to play against a Killer who is immune to the only thing they know how to do.
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@Rebel_Raven
No worries about the flashlights bit, they're definitely not useless if used properly, but they're somewhat more situational than a toolbox or medkit obviously and so people just think that they aren't useful at all? (somehow?)In terms of the Nurse I don't actually play her, I have a little bit and after that game I got used to her power a little bit and could hit people here and there but was nowhere near being proficient x3 But I've played against Nurses who are and decimate me and I've watched a couple of my friends play her and get 4K's pretty constantly at Rank 1 and 2, and I've also seen people straight up D/C or kill themselves first hook when they know they're against a Nurse. People don't like playing against her and I can't blame them.
I play Wraith and Doctor mainly, and as Wraith I usually get bodied pretty hard. I've learned to body block and all sorts of stuff with him but even so I can't apply pressure to the map in any meaningful way and so Generators go off left and right. That said, I don't believe Nurse's way of doing it is the proper way, I think it'll take some sort of additional objectives to extend game time for all Killer's to become a tad more balanced, but if you do that with Nurse in her current state you'll pretty much be guaranteeing 4K's with her every game (so long as the person is proficient with her of course).
@Orion
Right, in a perfect world you would never get into a chase with any Killer because you're a stealth god, but people get caught out and chased, that's pretty much the entire point of the game (It's one of the few actions that both players get points for simultaneously even). powerbats' points are by no means reliable, one is for when you aren't even in a chase (but sure, helpful nonetheless to keep track of where she's at) and the other isn't a guaranteed strat but a mind game that, if she has enough blink in her, can easily be bested. So, if the only legitimate strategy to facing a Killer is to never be scene I would say that Killer is a tad on the broken side wouldn't you? (Well, I guess you wouldn't since that's what we're debating and all, but still you get my point).0 -
@Aerys said:
@Orion
Right, in a perfect world you would never get into a chase with any Killer because you're a stealth god, but people get caught out and chased, that's pretty much the entire point of the game (It's one of the few actions that both players get points for simultaneously even). powerbats' points are by no means reliable, one is for when you aren't even in a chase (but sure, helpful nonetheless to keep track of where she's at) and the other isn't a guaranteed strat but a mind game that, if she has enough blink in her, can easily be bested. So, if the only legitimate strategy to facing a Killer is to never be scene I would say that Killer is a tad on the broken side wouldn't you? (Well, I guess you wouldn't since that's what we're debating and all, but still you get my point).The Nurse has her strengths and weaknesses, just like every other Killer. If you can't learn and take advantage of her weaknesses, you've got no business complaining about her strengths. If you get caught, that means you failed at stealth and should suffer the consequences.
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@Orion
I agree, but suffering the consequences after a 60 to 120 second jog vs a 20 to 40 second slaughter are very different consequences and only she has the improved version. Her strengths far exceed any of her weaknesses and it doesn't take an honest man to admit that, anyone can see it, some are just choosing not to and I'm unsure how to reason with them and show that there is logic in what I say as well, because everything you guys have said about playing against her I agree with, stealth is important, mind games are important, flashlights if you have em, etc etc, but the fact remains that she's vastly stronger than most Killers and it's not just a crackpot idea I had, it's a commonly and well explained (elsewhere, not by me apparently) and accepted notion.0 -
@Aerys said:
@Orion
I agree, but suffering the consequences after a 60 to 120 second jog vs a 20 to 40 second slaughter are very different consequences and only she has the improved version. Her strengths far exceed any of her weaknesses and it doesn't take an honest man to admit that, anyone can see it, some are just choosing not to and I'm unsure how to reason with them and show that there is logic in what I say as well, because everything you guys have said about playing against her I agree with, stealth is important, mind games are important, flashlights if you have em, etc etc, but the fact remains that she's vastly stronger than most Killers and it's not just a crackpot idea I had, it's a commonly and well explained (elsewhere, not by me apparently) and accepted notion.Her weaknesses are that she has her FoV greatly reduced after each and every use of her power, must use her power to win chases (she's slower than Survivors, after all), and most of her add-ons are actively detrimental due to the players' reliance on muscle memory.
The notion that the Nurse is stronger than most Killers is accepted by Survivors who, as I said before, only know how to loop. They don't want to learn how to counter her, because that would take actual skill and work. Ad populum is not a good argument.0 -
Flashlights are less situational IMO, but they require you to headshot from the front or sides, so they take far more skill to use.Aerys said:@Rebel_Raven
No worries about the flashlights bit, they're definitely not useless if used properly, but they're somewhat more situational than a toolbox or medkit obviously and so people just think that they aren't useful at all? (somehow?)In terms of the Nurse I don't actually play her, I have a little bit and after that game I got used to her power a little bit and could hit people here and there but was nowhere near being proficient x3 But I've played against Nurses who are and decimate me and I've watched a couple of my friends play her and get 4K's pretty constantly at Rank 1 and 2, and I've also seen people straight up D/C or kill themselves first hook when they know they're against a Nurse. People don't like playing against her and I can't blame them.
I play Wraith and Doctor mainly, and as Wraith I usually get bodied pretty hard. I've learned to body block and all sorts of stuff with him but even so I can't apply pressure to the map in any meaningful way and so Generators go off left and right. That said, I don't believe Nurse's way of doing it is the proper way, I think it'll take some sort of additional objectives to extend game time for all Killer's to become a tad more balanced, but if you do that with Nurse in her current state you'll pretty much be guaranteeing 4K's with her every game (so long as the person is proficient with her of course).
Light burns, and hag trap destruction aside.
Nurse is powerful, yes. But so, too, are survivors at times. It's that if the killer is good, no one else can really drag down their team. The weak link of survivors can screw everything up for the other 3.
Wraith and doctors are the banes of my existence. It's rare I ever escape a Wraith, and Doctors just seem to be up there as some of the best hunters and I don't know why. They find me running only 1 perk, and I've seen them do it on vids.
Anyone really good seems to consistently 4k with their chosen killer at any given rank from what I've read.
The nurse can only be in one place at a time. Yes she is excellent at applying pressure but, frankly it's kinda gone once she's in a chase like a lot of other killers.
Like Billy she doesn't have to spend a lot of time traveling, and time, like you said, is crucial for a killer.0
