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Devour hope vs noed
Why do people complain about noed but not devour hope? Survivors decided not to clean bones and the killer earned his instant down. If I win with devour it's good game if its noed it's that perk is so cheapš¤£
Comments
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It's because Devour Hope rewards the killer for effectively doing their job, whereas NOED rewards Killers that fail at their job, meaning survivors are punished for doing well.
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the killer should've done a bigger job on generators.
- why is it not on a totem at the start of the match?
- why is there no activation condition?
- why is it not known until someone takes a hit?
it's a good perk, but let's not act like it's something earned. especially not on the scale of devour. if i'm being honest, it's not even earned on the same scale as agitation.
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because you can cleanse devour from start
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You can cleanse NOED from start as well. The difference is, most survivors expect the deserved escape once all gens are done, like there is no endgame
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noed starts in the end with oneshots ready. Survivors have whole game to look for totems and cleanse it before 3 stacks. Don't even try to compare them
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NOED starts in endgame but you can cleanse all totems before you get there. you have less time to cleanse Devour. I'm just saying your argument is flawed. You can cleanse both hexes before they trigger. This is not the argument why noone complains about Devour
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It is actually debatable if it is earned or not. If the killer plays the game, then yes. You play with 3 perks which is a handicap. But you actually can stand still for 5 gens, do nothing and then get NOED activated. That would totally not be earned.
I think the main complaints comes exactly from these games. The killer has problems in his first chase, losing 3 gens, decides to camp that survivor to death and gets the second or even more kills after the last gen.
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Couldnāt have put it better.
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As you said, you have to cleanse 5 totems to disable noed. Remember why devs nerfed undying? because cleansing 5 totems to get rid of one hex was too strong
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For a hex that is active for the whole game. Like "don't try to compare those"
They basically nerfed it only for the Ruin+Undying combo. Again: you have the whole match to cleanse 5 totems, it doesn't make sense for any other totem to wait for the whole match, because they are active during the match
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You don't have to cleanse 5 totems when it's already active. So you have to cleanse all 5 during the game. Which is the same and not worth it. Also you never know if there is noed until last gen is fixed. So you can prevent noed, but why would you do that? As i said, don't event try to compare huge effort to prevent noed from working and just cleansing 1 totem in case of devour
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On top of this, Devour Hope is a lot easier to cleanse as well because the hex is present throughout the entire trial that survivors can eventually stumble upon.
Doing dull totems in solo queue is almost always a waste of time and even more so if you have to manually inspect where every totem has spawned. If there was a totem counter in the interface it would make things a lot easier.
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I still gonna compare them. If Devour gets triggered before cleansed, it is very likely that the game is lost for survivors at that point. You have at least one on the hook, at least one needing to unhook and at least one needing to find that totem, + probably one being in chase. This means basically, as long as Devour is active, you don't have any gen progress until it is cleansed.NOED also has high chances to flip the game. So you should really try to get those things done before they trigger.
You also don't know about Devour until it triggers. Can be Haunted Grounds, until you saw all 5 totems. And even then it could be Devour + Undying. And to the cleansing: you don't have to cleanse all 5 totems if you see the game doesn't give you the time. But remember the totem spots you see to know where to go when it triggers. And don't tell me it is not worth looking for totem spots, otherwise I have to assume you are just lazy and simply don't want to deal with NOED. You said "Devour can be cleansed from the start" is the argument why people complain about NOED. You can do the same to counter NOED. NOED has this counter, Devour has that counter, but both means basically "go for totems in time"
Just asf food for thought, I could also say "why should I run around the map searching for totems when I don't know if the killer has Devour?" Waste of time, isn't it?
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Chances survivor will accidentally find a lit totem just by running from gen to gen are very big. HUGE i'd say which is not a case with NOED
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Devour Hope - Killers need to get 3 to 5 hooks and not camp those hooks to get one shots and a mori, which is a gamble since it could be cleansed. Good play rewarded appropriately.
NOED - lol didn't cleanse the bones, idiot. Now you die ez clap
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Devour hope- cleansable from the start by doing 1-2 totems (2 if undying is active) easier to hear the hex totem, requires killer to get to 3 hooks, punishes the killer for being near hook by giving no tokens.
NOED - cleansable from the start only IF you find ALL 5 totems, doesn't require any tokens or charges, encourages camping.
Pretty easy to see why people have an issue with it. If the killer had 2-3k or lots of hooks it doesn't sting tbh, but when it's a really bad killer or someone who hooks 1 and camps then it's just boring and a kick in the teeth a bit.
It is what it is, it's not the end of the world so I get on with it.
Bringing detectives or small game is fine, but it's a waste to give up a whole perk slot for a 'maybe' NOED is being run and maybe the last totem can't be found. It's like suggesting every killer should bring lightborn as a flashlight counter... It's a waste 99% of the time if you know what I mean.
Anyway, I think those are fair reasons why NOED is hated more generally- basically it's usually easier to find 1 totem than all 5 plus it doesn't activate passively.
Don't really think either are a big issue, they're counterable, I just wish soloQ had a totem counter without having to bring in the new small game perk. If all 4 survivors are running it on soloQ it's 4 perks down on a team with no Comms.
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It is earned if the killer was able to pressure the survivors hard enough to not cleanse totems.
It becomes a punishment if the survivors refuse to cleans totems when facing a bad killer.
If the killer was bad, the survivors should have plenty of time to do totems. Heck, all you have to do is wait for it to proc and look for the lit totem.
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Conditions
Devour can be cleansed at the start and do nothing. It also requires the killer to have downed and hooked people.
NOED's only condition is that 1 of the 5 totems on the map aren't cleansed and that the gates get powered.
Killers are expected to do everything it takes to PREVENT the game from progressing far enough, making NOED feel as if you're rewarded for failure.
Killers argue survivors should be doing totems anyway, but given the lack of a base totem counter and that finding ALL of the 5 totems is no easy feat, it's just unfeasible.
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It not earned considering you screwed up. If anything it a fallback plan that it. It remind me of Ds cause both of them are a free escape/kill. The only different is that noed can be deactivate if survivors do bones.
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You don't have to bring those perks if you run a rainbow map or a regular with certain add ons.
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... but thats not what NOED does.
NOED does not reward a killer for failing / punish survivors for doing well.
NOED is a punishment for Survivors who failed to cleanse the totems. whether the perk activates or not is entirely in their hands.
additionally its a high gamble from the killers side, because they have to play the enitre trial with only 3 perks and the 4th, NOED, isnt even guaranteed to activate.
yes there are cases where complaints about NOED are totally valid (e.g. a camping killer - we dont have the time to do all gens AND bones in the given time)
but in a vast majority of the games you play you wont have those scenarios.
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Killers are supposed to kill the survivors while the survivors have to do gens Totems aren't objectives they're there because of hex perks
And yes the survivors are doing well because they're doing gens
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Yes they aren't...They're SIDE objectives the objective is to SURVIVE as a SURVIVOR and escape the trial Will opening chests let me escape? Nope cleansing totems will help me escape? Nope, Totems aren't THE objective lmao
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please remind us all what category of points i score for cleansing a totem and what category of points i score for repairing a generator
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Devour rewards the killer for not camping and staying away from the hook, while noed punishes survivors for focusing purely on generators
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"Keys reward a survivor who plays badly enough to not have enough generators done to open the doors and escape."
"DS/BT rewards a survivor for getting hooked."
NOED is a garbo perk because it requires no real interaction for the Killer to benefit. Ruin was changed because it was too random and had an impact on the game with zero input from the Killer.
Devour Hope is a better designed NOED.
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To be honest, I'm much more OK with NOED than I am with Devour Hope.
Why? Because I like close matches regardless of which side I'm on. NOED can give a Killer who was struggling another last minute chance to do something. For that reason and a few others, I believe NOED is a good and healthy perk for the game to have.
Devour Hope on the other hand heavily promotes a massive snowball one way or the other. If Devour Hope activates... well... probably means the Killer is going to snowball like crazy and the Survivor team is going to get wrecked. If Devour Hope breaks before it does anything... well then the Killer is playing with only 3 perks (2 if Devour Undying) and its more likely the Survivors just flat out win.
That's also why Adrenaline is my single most hated Survivor perk in the entire game, and even prenerf DS didn't come close.
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chances. exactly. when you get a totem like killer shack or next to a gen. and what about when it is on a well hidden totem or in a deadzone? just accept the defeat? as I said before, what you are describing here is the lazy way. your argument then is not "you can cleanse it from the start", your argument is "I wanna be lazy, not care about cleansing and counter a killer perk by accident, which doesn't work for NOED"
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reminder on emblems then, which is the part that lets you pip
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I wouldn't even say it is a flat win for survivors, at least the survivors spent time doing their second objective, which gives the killer a bit more time to get something done. You could say Devour is a genrush punisher (but let's not start a discussion about the validity of the term genrush here please)
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Technically you are correct. Having Devour does force a Survivor to cleanse a totem. However I can easily make a counter argument that a killer perk that buys you only 14 seconds over the course of a whole game isn't strong enough to get run.
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Here's the difference: Devour goes down in one totem. NOED goes down in five.
Devour is neatly marked and placed at the start of the match, while NOED only becomes vulnerable once gen 5 is finished.
'But you can just do bones!'
Doing bones is an insanely risky play against NOED, because it's 'all five or bust'. Per definition, the last totem destroyed is the best hidden one. So if you break four out of five totems when end-game triggers, congrats: you made NOED stronger by shepherding it into the one totem you cannot find.
None of this is accounting for the excessive amounts of time wasted hunting totems (barring Detective's Hunch) on the off-chance that there is NOED. This creates a bunch of lose-lose propositions for the survivors.
Yes, you can go hunt all the totems. But if you miss one, you screw yourself over. And if it turns out there's no NOED, you also screw yourself over. And if there was NOED, well, you still spent an additional three minutes not doing gens, making NOED an extremely strong slowdown perk. Possibly without the killer even having it on!
NOED is just poor design. At the very least, it should be declared the moment the fifth gen is done, since -that- is when you are exposed, not when someone gets hit.
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14 sec is the case if they run across it by accident. if they search for totems on purpose, they lose more time on gens
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The Survivors are not going to do that unless the totem announces itself and it only does that the first time you get an insta down with it. At which point we're in the 2nd situation where the Killer is getting value from it and the Survivors have a 1 way ticket on the pain train.
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Ah yes, let's just crush 5 totems which takes 14 seconds to do for each one instead of doing generators. The killer probably got 6 hooks by now and we're only at 3 gens, let's cleanse totems anyways! Who knows, they probably don't even have NOED and we're doing all of this for nothing.
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Yes, because those perks are so very comparable.
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That's what i've been saying "Just do bones" Is literally "Just pressure gens" but for survivors lmao
NOED should reward killers who have gotten hooks by getting tokens and when you down a survivor in the endgame a token is consumed and all survivors are exposed and the more you down survivors your tokens are going to be lost 1 by 1
That way the perk would reward good killers
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NOED can guarantee a kill or two at endgame, but DH will get cleansed 9/10 times before you can hit 4-5 stacks. If it's not cleansed before 3, survivors will be looking for it after they know it's in play.
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I will repeat myself again, NoeD currently ONLY rewards good killers, because good killers DO pressure gens hence the survivors barely have time/lives left to do them and they certainly dont have time to do totems.
So they are pretty much screwed, nobody is denying that NoeD is powerful.
If the killer is bad then survivors have all the time in the world to find and cleance the totems, if they choose not to, its on them.
Dead Hard for perspective rewards bad survivors but it REALLY rewards good survivors, in the hand of a good survivor its extremely hard to deal with and will cost you often twice as long to down someone,
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I agree. I've said this before, ima say it again.
Saying "just bait out Dead Hard" is like saying "just do bones against NOED."
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Let's just go and search the WHOLE map to find totems and waste my time on breaking them While the killer has 7 or 8 hooks by now and we're on 4 gens :)
NOED can be countered by SWFs but in solo Yeah no
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Again, the whole argument so far is that NoeD rewards bad killers, if you cannot look for the totems in the obvious spots before the killer has 7 to 8 hooks then perhaps the killer was not bad at all? that is exactly my point.
Also playing solo, might I suggest Detective's hunch? pretty easy to find totems that way and determine if the team has done any of them already.....
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I meant wasting my time on cleansing totems while i could be saving my teammates or on gens That's why the killer has 7 or 8 hooks Because it's literally a 1v3
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but....is it a waste of time when you are preventing NoeD from whiping out the entire team? again, its your choice if you want to run the risk but dont blame the perk for your choice.
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Yes it is butthe killer might not have the perk at All we wont know until it is revealed to us then i look at the killer's perks and find out he doesnt have NOED AND the 3 other survivors begin yelling at me for being useless So it's a gamble ngl
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Do I really have to explain it? Okay...
Devour encourages the killer to do their job and rewards them for doing well. It promotes a healthy way of playing on both sides and it's lit up the entire match, giving survivors a real chance to counter it and faulting the killers for not defending their totem well enough. Like all other Hex totems (Besides NOED), It's a risk v reward.
NOED on the other hand has no real counter other than cleansing every totem on the map in hopes the killer actually has it and if not, you wasted time for no reason. It's a hex that rewards the killer for playing badly and has almost no downsides/risks, not appearing lit until the very last gen is popped. It provides exposed to all survivors and a 4% movement increase during the endgame with absolutely no work, usually leading to cheap, unearned victories and dissatisfied survivors. Even on red rank killers who do very good, I can't help but feel cheated when NOED activates and I die cause my team doesn't want to find the totem.
I will always commend a killer who uses Devour. They worked for those stacks and if I fail to find the totem before they reach five, that's on me and I accept defeat. Plus, getting mori'd is cool. NOED activating on good or bad killers always leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
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and your argument is just denying everything to protect your noed opinion
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Just a question, how would noed activate at all if all totems were cleansed?
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