http://dbd.game/killswitch
Punish killers for camping.
Am I the only one who believes that killers should be punished for camping survivors on hook? Especially if it's a bubba or hillbilly. Yes, you could not go for the unhook if you see that a killer (such as bubba) is camping, however not all survivors choose to ignore it and do gens and they decide to go for the very stupid unhook, leading two people now being hooked and they both DC...
Honestly, it's not fun at all. Yes, there are perks which help, such as BT, but honestly those perks don't even matter against killers who are able to one-shot survivors. Thoughts?
Comments
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They are already being punished by getting a penalty on their score.
The survivors can also rush gens while the killer is "distracted" especially when you use kindred. Some people will unhook anyway but its really easy to punish the killer for camping yourself.
Sadly the one on the hook can only hope to waste as much time as possible.
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If a killer camps he gets less points. If a killer is camping and that killer can down you in a hit you, don't go for it. Simple as that.
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Survivors just need to learn to do gens when a killer is camping. If it's a bad camp, survivors should have no issues getting gens done.
If it's a good camp where the killer is able to pressure the hook and gens, well that's just him playing smart.
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Punish survivors for not understanding that camping is a strategy. Every game has unfun strategies. Just move on to the next game. Camping happens a lot but honestly some over exaggerate one how much it truly happens.
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95% of the time when i hook someone i go hunting. Its just a better use of my time. However, if i hooked someone and somebody made a bad save. Im going to hook them close by and not leave. They made a bad play and i am capitalizing on their mistakes.
It sounds like your real problem is horrible teammates. In that case play swf. Its all i can suggest because randoms suck.
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The people who DC'ed are as much of a problem as the camping killer was. Sorry you were stuck with terrible teammates.
You said the Meg went after an unhook -- if they did so with the Bubba even in the remote vicinity, that's completely on them for making a terrible play. If the Bubba was actually camping, they should have left and worked on generators. Punishing the killer for camping by executing a 3-person escape and causing them to get no BP/depip is the best way to "teach them a lesson".
Getting camped is no fun. I've played against campers numerous times. I sit and do my time on the hook, and in most of those matches, the killer ends up with no points and a depip while everyone else escapes. Occasionally, I or my teammates will try to rush the hook anyway and we all end up dead -- I'll acknowledge that's as much on us for going on a suicide mission as it is on the killer willing to oblige us.
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So you want to punish killers for bad survivor decisions?
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Sorry, but I don't think anyone should be punished for playing within the rules.
Incentivesed for not camping, sure. But punished for playing a video game, seems counter intuitive.
Play how you would like to verse, and you are always winning. And let others play as they like.
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They already are.
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Put it this way, I had 10 max matches yesterday, and at least 8 of those were face camping 😂 cant deny its definitely not exaggerated and is happening far too much.
Unfortunately unless the survivor is willing to take a spanking its difficult for that save. I went for a save infront of face camping Michael yesterday and I got sandbagged, left to slug and he went back after the unhooked survivor straight after... unlucky for that killer my unbreakable was active.. and he got really aggy at the end chat. Saying how unbreakable shouldn't be allowed as a perk ... bro it's not my problem if you take a chance of slugging someone with a possible unbreakable perk runner. 😂 out the door we went !
So yeah it is happening more often than it should do. And this guy really isn't exaggerating.
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8 out of 10 games with facecamping? Really?
I play 20-25 hours of survivor a week, and I don't think our group (ranging anywhere from a 2-person SWF to a full-on 4-person SWF) has had anythong close to 8 facecampers over the last two months combined, never mind in one day. You must be the unluckiest person in the world. Maybe.
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Last time I did gens when someone got facecamped I got yelled at in postgame chat by the camped survivor that i should have saved him ( or the other 2 guys who also did gens ).
While I agree that camping is a valid strategy, it is sooooooo boring for both sides and infuriating for the guy on the hook.
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The point loss for camping is negligible and from the amount of campers who do it it seems obvious that many don't even care. As for going after the person who's hooked, yes, you're correct, but when YOU are the one who gets hooked and camped, your game is basically over. You just sit there with your hands folded watching yourself not play. Where's the fun in that, especially after waiting through all the BS that you have to just to get to the actual match itself?
I do not agree that campers should be punished. I am on the side that feels that it's a strategy, and one that can be countered. But that means nothing to the person on the hook, who was unlucky enough to be snatched right away (usually because of tunneling but that's another topic). If something can be done for those who have to just hang out helplessly on the hook - let's say 100 point survival bonus for every second that the killer is within X amount of feet, after the first ten seconds of being hooked - then at least the game wouldn't be a total loss for the person who was camped.
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"It's so boring". OMG, I'm so sick of this statement.
I find getting carted in Monster Hunter boring, so I get better at it
I find getting sniped in a FPS boring, so I avoid his kill zone and go around
I find losing all my HP to torpedos in World of Warships boring, so I learned to randomize my headings.
I find getting camped boring, so I punish the behavior by doing gens for 5 minutes.
Welcome to ######### video games.
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Well you can't even do gens if you're being camped, can you? (:
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To translate this:
'I dunno how to actually effectively play my character in dbd so I resort to camping'
Camping, tunneling and slugging are a clear sign of lack of skill and unwillingness to accept a loss, and unwillingness to learn how a killer works.
And that you get a minus on points is not punishment enough. By all means, the game CAN tell when someone's camping or actually doing other things around the hook (tested it). It can tell if you are looking for a survivor, if you kick a nearby gen or palett etc. it can tell if you proxy camp of if you are searching the area.
So the game could e.g. stop the hookprogression if you're camping, and even move the survivor to the exitgate if you're still camping after the last gen's done. It should do that. If you feel the need to e.g. do basement bubba, tough luck. no kill for you.
The game would be a lot nicer if all those that would throw a tantrum over such mechanic would bugger off.
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They already get punished. I think an incentive not to camp might be nice.
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If I'm being camped, I want to train killers to do it less by not rewarding them. Ergo, make the game as boring for them as possible when I'm not the one being camped. So hopefully by the time I get them again and it's my turn on the hook, they'll learn their lesson.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
They do get a penalty in the emblem system. However there's been games I've played where camping, tunneling or slugging at the right moment got me a 4K. You may not like it but sometimes it's the smartest thing to do. If someone has a chance of snowballing and winning they aren't not going to do it because someone doesn't enjoy it.
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I don't know how you tested it but I make it a point to "RUN AWAY" from hooks as killer if I don't instantly see a survivor to chase and still i get sometimes cuts on my emblems with the note hook vicinity.
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Welcome to playing with cheap players who don't care if they make the game boring for everyone else, yes.
Hanging on the hook is boring. Period. There's nothing exciting about it. Any player, no matter how great, is susceptible to being downed and hooked. No one is excluded from this, yet I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of them don't find it to be an inherently positive experience. Camping doesn't strike me as any more fun than spending the whole game moving from locker to locker would be, unless the joy comes from ruining the experience for others at the expense of any real benefit to oneself.
I respect the killer mains who don't like to camp. They find it boring too, as they should. Just sitting there not playing the game is...well, sitting there not playing the game. I'd rather the both of us risk a loss by getting out there and actually doing what the game intended.
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I will counter translate -
I find certain playstyles distasteful and cheap, so I resort to calling somebody bad even though the game does not understand such rules - just it's failure and success states. I play by my own code of honor so that even if I do get beat, I have this perceived "high ground" I can fall back on to take away the sting of defeat and deflect blame and responsibility off myself because I didn't break my fictitious rules.
Let me put it to you plainly.....
You want to take it easy, but you don't want to take responsibility for the fact that you're in you failure state because of YOU, so you deflect blame on your adversary instead of doing what is necessary to train them otherwise because you want to "play chill"
Sadly, I'm familiar with this mindset as I used to be one of you. Then I realized that living by such self-imposed rulesets was only hurting me and my experience as there's literally nothing you can do to stop people from playing hard against you.
So in the end I let go of these self-imposed rules which allowed me accept that the other side will do the same - putting the responsibility for my loss firmly on my shoulders.
II have done so because I learned the hard way that playing any other way was just inviting disappointment. I just wish other people would understand that and accept it.
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Very unlucky indeed. But it is what it is and it is happening quite a lot. I can play a week and guarantee 2nmaybe pushing 3 days it's awful. But it's hownthe game goes, some good matches some terrible ones full of salt and toxic end chats.
I'm one of these if I have a terrible match, I just look forward to going on to a fresh match. Then again I don't take the game like a life crisis 😂 and not too seriously.
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Look, if you don't know how to play without camping, if you pop a vein over the prospect of not getting a kill... you oughta do some soulsearching.
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I don't understand why people pop a vein over hanging on a hook for 2 minutes out of their entire night...
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Can't 'punish' camping, because sometimes it's a viable strategy.
Best they can do is make strong perks that incentivise not camping. Devour Hope is one of them, but a decent gen defence perk that worked similarly would be amazing.
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If you don't understand how frustrating it is waiting up to five minutes for a queue, then another minute in the lobby as some ######### lets the entire timer run down, then another half a minute or more for the actual match to load, only to then spend two minutes of gameplay not actually playing the game, then I don't even know what advice to give you. Attend a math class?
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I know math quite well. In fact, let me throw some numbers at you
80 seconds to solo a generator, times 4 survivors
120 seconds to die on a hook
You picking up what I'm layin' down here yet?
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If your math equates to "the other survivors can do gens instead of go for the save so who cares about the person whose game I'm ruining by camping" then no.
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It’s not the killers responsibility to make survivors have fun.
this argument is the same as saying you shouldn’t be allowed to go on a killing spree in a FPS because it’s not fun for the other team.
Dead by daylight is a pvp game the fun of the other team should not be your concern both for killer and survivor. Now I’m not saying camping is always done as a strategy some do it just because they’re malicious. But sometimes camping is a viable strategy and people need to accept that.
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I agree that it's not the killer's responsibility to make survivors have fun. That's why, while I find camping cheap, I've never called for its banning. In fact all of my posts regarding the subject support the killer's right to do this. That doesn't make it any less of a waste of time for the person who has to sit on the hook, not playing because of someone else's personal decisions.
That's why I've been calling for some kind of reward system for those who are camped. A point bonus to at least make it so that the survivors who have nothing to do all match have an incentive to sit there and do nothing. Throwing a bone to someone whose match was ruined because the killer was allegedly "trying to make the other survivors learn" would make it less of a waste of time for the camped survivor without punishing the killer in turn.
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And let me make something clear here.... camping is not my default behavior. Hasn't been for a long time. Because let me throw down some facts for newbie killers here that think they've "Cracked the code" by camping.
See my post above? About 4 survivors and it only takes 80 seconds to do a gen?
If survivors were actually smart, you should lose 3 or 4 generators camping one person, and they have a good chace of probably get the 5th and walk out with you having no points.
The RIGHT play in most situations is to go chase somebody else. This game really is about time management, and survivors on generators is time the killer is losing. So if nobody is coming to the hook, they might be making you lose a LOT of your playtime with your victims.
Chasing sombody else guarantees that there will be at least 3 survivors not on generators for a bit. 1 on the hook the person rescuing them, and the person you're chasing.
Now..... camping is still viable in certain situations, which is why I often jump into these threads. Times when it's a smart play to camp include
- You've walked away from the hook previously and some nitwit immediately saves before you take 10 steps away. You've established a pattern of behavior from at least one of them at this point and can safely assume that one may be greedy for the altruism and may be nearby on the next hook. it's okay to make a sweep at this point.
- You've downed somebody near an active hook - 2 survivors are off gens now.
- You've hooked somebody and you turn around to find somebody appearing to bait you nearby and try and get your attention - you can't help but feel like there might be a 3rd nearby ready to pounce the hook. Go for a quick chase and see what they do - but I'd say it's allowable to turn around and see if they had a teammate waiting for you to take the bait
- The generators are done - you having nothing left but doors to defend and the survivors got a full game out of you. Camping is justified here and they really can't complain because, as I've stated, they got a full game out of you.
I now leave you to your regularly scheduled attempts at socially shaming players into playing in a manner that makes no sense to most reasonable people.
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I definitely wouldn’t mind something similar to the “dying as obsession” survival points being added to trigger on stuff like killer proximity or what hook you die on. Definitely would be nice to have another way to get survival points
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That's all that I, personally, would like to see. I DO think that camping is a viable strategy because, as Roach has said, it CAN be countered. This is a fair and correct observation. My problem is spending so much time waiting to get into a match, only for all of that time (as well as the time of the match itself) to be wasted because I happen to get snagged by someone who wants to utilize this strategy. It's a combined ten or more wasted minutes of time. That may not seem like a lot but I challenge anyone who thinks so to immediately drop whatever they're doing the next time that they're having fun, walk to the nearest blank wall, and just sit there quietly staring at it for that same amount of time. It isn't fun.
A lot of people call for the camping to be banned, or for killers to be punished (killers ARE already punished, but so little that it really doesn't bear arguing. Besides which, many killer mains obviously don't care). To me it's less about saying "no, you can't do this" and more about asking for some kind of...something, anything, to make it worth having to sit through. Spending ten minutes or more with nothing to show for it but a few thousand BP is thoroughly counterproductive, to the point that I (and I think many others) would rather be doing just about anything else. If the killer wants to play that way that's fine, but at least give the survivor a reason to put up with it.
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Get better at survivor. Killers can't camp until you have failed to avoid them.
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Okay, maybe we can agree on the following:
Personally I'd be curious to know if camping etc reflect in the devs pick/kill stats, and if no, would the stats change noticeable if just for a weekend no one would camp, tunnel and slug.
How 'bout you?
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I can see a few heated posts in here, so I just want to remind everyone to keep it civil. You can make your points while still being respectful to others here when discussing the subject.
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And you are correct that, when someone is being camped on the hook, the other survivors SHOULD focus on gens and only go for the save when there's a truly safe window, which presumably at some point there may be. But here are the two problems with that:
- If you're a solo player like me, there's no way to get the other players to realize this. Most of them care more about the altruism points (or perhaps just the spirit of the match itself) and go for the save as soon as they can. I can't tell you how many times I've said to myself "no, no, no, you idiot, just do that gen over there first", only to be unhooked, swatted right back down, and put right back on the hook to die. None of which I have any control over.
- If you're a SWF player and have a team with which you CAN communicate such things, many killers hate you and go out of their way to punish you for it it. I can't speak for this as I don't SWF, but I see the sentiment regularly.
So basically what it comes down to is that the survivor who is hooked loses no matter what. He loses because he can't play his game while he's hooked, he loses because the other survivors go for the save 75% of the time or more, he loses because he gets unhooked but the killer is right there to just smack him back down again, he loses because he gets virtually no BP if he's hooked early in the match, he loses by killing himself on he hook and sacrificing any potential gameplay if he WERE lucky enough to escape, he loses if he disconnects because then he gets a temp ban from playing, and lastly he loses because no matter what happens he didn't get to play the game and in may cases spent quite a few now-wasted minutes waiting to even try.
So, just to be clear, I reiterate that I'm one of what seems like a minority of survivors who feels that camping IS a fair and viable strategy. That doesn't mean that it's not absolutely miserable for the person who's getting camped. It's basically a complete loss of time and effort, and it leaves one frustrated and not wanting to play. It's not just a matter of being bored for two minutes, it's a matter of his agency being removed and getting nothing in return for it (and, to top it off, being punished for trying to get out of the situation and move onto another match so he can try to have fun again). It sucks to have the ability to enjoyably play one's game dictated by another player who insists on doing something that is, while fair, largely regarded as "cheap". But do I think that this cheapness should be banned or made impossible? No. Again, it's a valid strategy. I simply wish that it wasn't a total waste of time and source of complete frustration to sit there and wait for it to take its course.
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The very first thing you said is that I'm asking for a punishment for camping, which is incorrect. In fact I've made many posts to the contrary.
You should attempt to objectively understand my argument before telling me that I shouldn't be playing the game.
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The logic to be inferred from this comment is that all successful hits and hooks are the fault of the survivor, always, and that at a certain level of skill a survivor can avoid both in perpetuity. I find that to be a flawed argument.
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The real problem is that survivors have NO REASON to just sit there and be camped so the rest can do gens. They have no reason to just sit there. It's ALWAYS a better option for you to just die instantly when being camped and just go and find a (hopefully) better match.
If the camped survivor got distraction points or something, then this would be less of an issue and killers could be properly punished by the other survivors doing gens.
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This is why I advocate as I do. I'll try to break down my thought process now that we have this good dialog going and maybe we can see eye to eye. Because you aren't wrong - it does suck to be in that position where you are literally just rotting on a hook. I get it.
- Step one - make the playerbase understand camping is part of the game and the devs will literally do NOTHING about it due to the situations I outlined above. Nothing outside of incentivizing leaving the hook.
- Step two - when people understand it's part of the game, they'll stop blaming the killer for doing what comes naturally. Deflecting the blame on your opponent removes any incentive from the victim to seek other solutions outside of seeking punishment for the behavior which is a waste of time due to what I've outlined in step 1.
- Step 3 - Once people understand it's on them to train these killers better, more and more people will pound out gens and show these killers it doesn't work - people aren't going to take the bait. Their progression through the game will slow to a crawl. Out of boredom, they'll start seeking chases then finally understand what us more experienced killers have been trying to tell them.
- Step 4 - with it understood among the playerbase the right call is to do gens, less survivors will try to socially shame their teammates with "why didn't you rescue me calls" I understand some of this altruism comes not from the greed of points, but from social pressure to rescue teammates. However, the playerbase must understand that sometimes for the good of the team, you gotta let some people go. It sucks, but if you want a better game - you need to be better players.
The last step is probably going to be the hardest. People want to rescue their teammates either due to social pressure or those points. But sometimes the right call is to just nope out and getting people to accept that is hard.
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To be honest I don't think that either of us are inherently wrong, I think that we just both feel passionate about our respective positions. I think we agree on the overall scenario though.
I do wish that other survivors, in general, realized that they need to play more strategically when one of their teammates is hooked. Work together as a team to try to distract and evade the killer while someone else sneaks in from behind for the save, etc. It's doable (if difficult), I've seen and participated in such things. I learned VERY early on - after like the second day of playing - that dropping what you're doing to go hellbound for the save is suicide. You don't want your teammate to die, because that's going to leave you at a disadvantage. But you don't want to lose another teammate or two in a save attempt either. You have to pick and choose your battles. And as long as the prevailing strategy is the kamikaze save, camping will remain a viable strategy.
I also learned early on that wiggling on the hook used to be a (more or less) universally recognized sign that read "the killer is camping, don't try to save me". But with new players who aren't appraised of this now somewhat obsolete code, the message has probably been misinterpreted enough as "I need help, come get me" to the point that wiggling does nothing either way. It sure hasn't in my games, where the players can generally be counted to do the kamikaze. Sometimes it does help, and I'm thankful. Often it doesn't, and my heart continues to sink as we lose even harder.
In lieu of more survivors using a bit more restraint, which for some reason doesn't seem to be happening as often as it should, I wish that there were a couple more animations in this game- one which is a wave off, like a "casino dust" that declares with a swiping of both hands, "NO".
Or, again, even just some kind of small BP "award" for suffering or something. Again, I'm less about punishing the killers for camping than I am for balancing out how miserable it is to want to play the game and find oneself unable to. If I got a reduced amount of points for the match, as opposed to nearly none, then it wouldn't be so bad. Instead of thinking "GEEZ, I cannot stand this camping crap" I could think "ah okay, fair play, he got me. If I don't win at least it wasn't a total waste". And if not BP (because those equal leveling up) maybe shards for cosmetics or something. That's all I'm saying, ya know? Just make the camped feel like they didn't totally waste their time. Each side can still do their thing, each side can still benefit from a one-sided scenario.
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A wave-off animation would be flippin' awesome for the first stage of the hook.
In the early years, we've also asked for a "refuse rescue" via some sort of kick for situations where the killer is on the survivor's back, but I think the devs refused that idea early on.
Personally, I'd like to see the BP points for the struggle increased dramatically to encourage less survivors to suicide on the hook.
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2 posts?
Ladies & Gents... We gottem. 😂
Bruh... If you wanna punish the killer for camping, just DO THE DAMN GENS!!!
You're throwing the game by running in saving against killers that can one shot.
Don't hate the killer, you just need to understand the situation.
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Did they explain why they didn't go for the idea? I understand that adding animations isn't the easiest thing to do and can often lead to various other conflicts, but it WOULD be cool to have a simple way of trying to express to other survivors that you're not interested in their assistance. I mean again, I've actually gotten killed because a survivor ran up and decided to go for the save even though the killer was clearly closing in on us. It's like "thanks man, you just hastened the struggle stage for me", lol.
I personally don't want an in-game communication system for a myriad of reasons, but a single gesture of disapproval would probably go a long way in encouraging better play. "No, I appreciate your help but please let me do this generator by myself". "No, I get what you're trying to do but focus on gennys, don't try to rescue me right now. I'm fine waiting for a better opportunity". Even if no points were given for the hooked survivor this would at least help to educate others to the fact that altruism isn't always the best play. But yeah, if some points or other kind of reward were given to a hooked struggler, then it wouldn't just make it a little easier to swallow for the survivor but also help to discourage suicides and disconnects, which I'm sure are just as irritating for the killer side. If a killer starts a game and within just a couple of minutes half the survivors DC, then he (or she) has also been removed of his agency. Now HE's the one who's being denied the ability to play the game.
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I believe the problem OP is trying to address is that it's difficult to punish camping in solo queue, which is a valid complaint, it's pretty difficult to coordinate an entire team of solos to punish.
Not everyone will know that the killer is camping unless they visually saw the killer camping or they are running Kindred. If no one is running it, then survivors will waste time checking and won't make a lot of progress on generators — resulting in the killer getting more time to catch survivors.
Another reason to make Kindred basekit, but without revealing the killer's aura.
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