Bloodpoint System is Unfair for Killers
Survivors are just skins. So you just need get teachable perks from other survivors and then you can open on your main survivor. And this will be enough.
But killers are not skin. All of them different. And open all perks on all of them nearly imposible. So much grind you will need for that. This system is time eater and i think it is really need rework.
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It's not unfair
A grind yes but it should never be easy to unlock all perks for all killers. There needs to be some longevity and value to it
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But survivors can get so easly all perks. And that is fair?
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There is no "this is unfair for killers or survivors" argument here.
There is enough of that out there in other areas. If you want to spend the time to unlock for each killer then go spend the required time.
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I think you raise a point worth discussing but I'm not personally going to weigh in on whether it's fair or not. As for the Survivors, it still takes a LONG time to get all the perks you want, unless you get lucky and come across them in the Shrine (remember to check that by the way). Some of the best survivor perks are locked behind the highest teachable level of a character I have absolutely no interest in using, so to get them means grinding with another character I've already BEEN playing as for a long time and then applying all of their points to that other character. I don't know the math but I'd be willing to believe that it takes half a million bloodpoints to unlock all of a character's perks. Maybe more.
It's a slow process for everybody. You have to remember, the people who have been playing this game for years have had time to work on each new character as they came along, rather than trying to work with almost 50 characters at once.
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I don't play survivor hardly at all, and just by watching shrines I have my level 50 dwight with every meta perk I could want. The only reason I have for leveling another character is for the alternative skin, or possibly the small benefit of Ace being incredibly quiet by default.
The grind of going through an entire bloodweb to get each killer up to snuff is intense. I suppose it's nice to have my dwight more or less already finished which means I never really need to level another survivor. I have a lot of work left for some of my killers tho.
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Over 100+ BW to get Infectious Fright on Oni. No Tinkerer for Blight. Getting Tier 1 BBQ and never seeing it again on a killer. It hurts :(
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I am playing with my second account. It is new. Opening all survivors perks took 5 6 weeks. And yes it is also long time because i played long times and challanges, WGLF, PH helped me with that.
But sadly killer part is harder. Because i just opened teachable perks and then i opened all of them on my main survivor. But now for killer part it will take longer time. Months possibly.
Old players maybe have not problem with that system. But this system is so hard for new players. Because there is so much characters. Devs needs rework this system.
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What would you suggest as an alternative?
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Making everything 2000 BP cheaper can help maybe.
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How is one harder than the other? You get more bp as killer anyways its honestly harder to get the perks as survivor if you only play survivor
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How is harder? I am using 2 perks and that helps me with BP. Prove Thyself and WGLF. Both of them gives me more bloodpoints. And i usually have +20K points.
And when you open all perks on one survivor, you dont need to do for others. But killers are not same. You need to open all perks on all killers. So killer is more harder.
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No? With barbeque on killer you get like 60 thousand each game. You still have to unlock all the perks for both sides, if you want ruin you kevel up hag to 40 then grind bloodwebs until you get it. You want borrowed time you level up bill to 35 and grind bloodwebs until you get it. Its the same exact thing on both sides
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The grind in this game is unfair in general.
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Some of the killers I've leveled hit 50 before I'm ever even offered BBQ. I still have a couple who have been 50 for some time with no bbq offered. Luck plays a huge role.
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Can't we just come as together and say the grind sucks for both sides?
And for those who have been playing for a few years and say its five.... Imagine buying the game TODAY..... It's just overwhelming for a new player
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In my experience playing Killer gets me more points.
As a Killer you are one, as to being a Survivor on a team of 4 people who are all trying to get points and have to try to outperform the others to get them.
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This is anecdotal but I have NEVER seen anyone come anywhere even close to getting 60,000 BP in a match. 30,000 tops. And even that number is fairly uncommon. 25K seems to be about the average peak, 4K or otherwise.
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Survivors and killers get their perks in the exact same way: by unlocking the teachables at lvls 30, 35, 40, and then finding them with the other characters. You don't even have to play as someone if you don't want, and still get their teachables.
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As a killer its totally possible. Let's say you get 27.000 BP, with 4 stacks of bbq it's now 54.000bp, let's say you gave a survivor pudding..... You're now getting 81.000 BP.
It's really not that uncommon
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The extra bp from barbecue is added on after. You won't be able to see what the total BP is. Only the killer.
During double bloodpoint events, and with the use of multiples party streamers, I've gotten crazy amounts of bloodpoints in single games.
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The grind is insane. One of the reasons i dont recommend this game often.
But the grind is only worse for killer bc you have the luxury to play different characters. When you play with only one killer, you get the same amount of content a survivor can get in this game.
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Killer part is more harder but i agree with you. Grind is insane for new players. Devs need to fix this system because it is so unfair for new players
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Almost like survivors are just skins and don't have unique powers. Killers do so it makes since that you have to grind to get specific builds on specific killers that work well. Insisting that this is not fair is bonkers. Completely dumb.
If anything the grind is not as fair for survivor since their version of bbq requires them to compete with other survivors while the killer gets bbq tokens through normal gameplay.
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i'm trying to understand the mathematics here:
all perks for a character become teachables to the others at the same levels (35, 40, 45)
so you need to level up survivors and killers to that point.
The real issue is survivors seam to get things to increase BP more commonly
Killer got: wreaths, pudding and the cocoonlooking thing
survivors got: flowers, escape cake and the envelopes which increase the bp payout for every survivor. and these things seem to pop up more commonly on the survivor bloodweb.
the thing really are the envelopes:
killers are on their, while survivors just need someone to bring one of those.
add to that that the grind is horrible.... yeah
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Such an entitled and impatient generation.
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You think asking for equal treatment is entitlement?
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Point is you need open all survivor teachable perks. And then it is easy. Because you will open all of them on your main. And you will not need do that for another survivor. Your main will be enough with full perks.
But killers are different. Killers have different powers. So opening teachable perks are not enough. You also need open all perks on all killers. Survivors just need one survivor with full perks but killers needs grind all of them if they wanna play with all of them.
So killer part is harder for that.
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I dont know if i'd say unfair, too grindy definitely, but not unfair sure killers have to grind more but they also make way more on average, as well as BBQ being really ######### good.
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I think that says everything.
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Killers earn more bloodpoints than survivors.
Killers also don't need to buy an item for every match either.
Also your argument doesn't match with my experience.
I only play a handful of killers, because a lot of them don' appeal to be mechanically. I'll never play Nurse or Blight on console, I don't like Clown or the Twins, and I suck so bad at Huntress/Deathslinger/Trickster that I doubt I'll play those much. Chainsaw mechanics irritate me so Billy and Bubba are out, and I just find Trapper boring. If I get a daily ritual for any of those, I'm binning it.
Meanwhile, because all survivors are virtually the same, I'll play whichever one I have a challenge/ritual for, or whoever has the most items/offerings to spare.
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Uh actually this is a fair point I haven't really thought about too often. Although you do get alot more bp as killer in my experience but your point is still valid.
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Add around 70mil BP for those chapters that came out when this was counted.
Its not unfair for killers, its unfair for everyone.
#NerfTheGrind
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How fallacious, I will still take on the point however.
Because it would be considered immoral to treat someone unfairly, with morality being defined as the actions that conclude in the wellness of life. Therefore, its backwards. You do not have the right to treat someone unfairly logically, as that would be harmful and therefore immoral.
We would have to define Fair as well, if you mean a widely accepted variation being "in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.", then it is of upmost importance then we treat everyone fairly as long as those rules do not also promote harm. This is why we have laws, and in this sense then the aforementioned applies duly.
If it is to mean the widely accepted variation being "without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage." it is not as equally relevant however profoundly needed the same. Most could find cheating immoral by its very nature.
if it is to mean fair as equal which would mean in popular conversation "a person or thing considered to be the same as another in status or quality." , and if we conclude we are talking about people such in this case then we can clearly state that you should be obligated to treat someone equally and fair in accordance to reason.
So in this context treating a stranger like a stranger, and therefore with distance, and a loved one with passion is fair. Therefore logically it would seem to treat someone unfairly would be immoral, illogical and would ultimately hurt the person in the long run. This is why naturally humans considerations for fair and to be reasonable are found as these traits promote community's helping each other which in turn increases either/both survivability and/or convenience.
IE: If someone has car issues and no one thought of the outcome to help the person then its not only unlikely other people will be helped, but even yourself you will find help unable to be found for your car when it breaks down or for whatever issue you have that typically people will have a chance to help you out otherwise.
This is the most logical retort I can come up with currently, and I do think I did well.
Post edited by DerpyPlayz on1 -
They should get rid of perk tiers, that'd be the first step to reducing the grind since that would also get rid of 66% of the farming. As a compensation they could adjust the cost of those single tier perks (5k-6k for every single one) and then we'll have to see how things are going.
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Look at Webster go!!
?
How often do you stop, and help a homeless person in need? If you’re driving, and see a person on the corner with a sign, do you make every effort to scooch over in the lanes to donate to his, food or drugs money, or do you make every effort to avoid eye contact? If a beggar comes up to you at the gas pumps asking for money, are you guilted into giving it to him, or do you just say you have no change?
I actually laughed when I read this because you just assumed a bunch of things for seemly no reason. I will go ahead and answer these questions anyway though. Personally considering I am 18 and just graduated I personally can give some amount to the homeless whenever I can but not often because I don't have a main source of income yet as I just graduated so alot of what you said couldn't even apply to me if you wanted it too, another reason not to assume things.
However with that being said, my mom is naturally altruistic and I have witness countless times when the homeless would ask for a couple dollars for food and every time she has failed not to directly go to the nearby food stores and give them the food directly. The reason she doesn't directly give them the money and instead gives them the food is because they are strangers and does not know them she wants to make sure the money is spend on food if you get my drift. Which is exactly why she decided to choose the career choice as a nurse.
As for myself, I am already applying to help out my moms hospital for charity work just to help people, as I don't have much to do until college is in and therefore find myself thinking "Well why not do something productive while helping people?". Hard to justify a cause on why not too.
This is all of course natural altruism for no real reason other than I am human, and therefore have a sense of humanity. About a month ago when we were driving into my grandmas town, my mom didn't pay attention and ran out of gas. As direct evidence of humans naturally helping each other from personal experience a lady pulled over and offered to help us. This is actually why I gave the specific example I did, because it was the easiest one that I can correlate to my reality.
People wanna play high and mighty from the comforts of there computer, but the cold hard facts are that humans have to work hard to make a good life for themselves, and a lot when presented with the opportunity, will step all over others to get there.
Ironically this is not even true, as it entirely subjective as everyone has a different walk of life. For example, a rich person at birth will have life easier in the monetary sense, but this says nothing of anything else. As another example, clearly your upbringing was a unfortunate one, and I am sorry to whoever has lied to you or did something to make you think that your mindset is the default mindset that most people have. I think you should see if you have depression as it would seem it but I will digress. You should work on your views of other people as your naturally or ill inflicted mindset will have you miss out on opportunities in life.
Those are the facts, and to believe that you are a savior is a crock
Another silly accusation to implicate something I have never said. I am not a savior of anyone, never did I claim to be. Nor are those the facts for most other people that I have ever met but your pessimistic mindset holds you back from realizing that. Not to say there aren't terrible people out there, there are but it is not in they're best interest nor others best interest to be terrible to one another. There is a reason why corrupt dictators eventually fall, few people cry, but most everyone rejoices. There are reasons why something such as racism was generally accepted but in time it was left behind by the majority of people, ect.
Sure, you can try to help some, but most are there because they are lazy, and are just waiting for you to come give them something for free. That’s the entitlement, and you are the sucker giving into their wants.
Sure, some people do scam other people out of stuff by pretending to be X in turn to obtain things. There are many reason for why, but the thing is I would rather happen to give 10 "homeless" people money, if it means I can help at least one actually homeless person. Your blatant disregard for life, more specifically humans and your assumptions about humans in general tells me your are either in a really dark time, or are quite immoral, either way its not my issue to fix, that's your issue to fix.
TBH, i didn’t read most of your retort. The run on sentences, and incorrect word placement made it difficult to read, and boring.
Well considering you don't understand why fairness logically is obligated to degrees, it is no surprise to me you are the type of person to make a fallacious red herring, even with that said however my points still stand, and ignoring them doesn't do much.
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It's exactly the same for survivors and killers. Yes, survivors are skins and not much else, while killers all have different powers. But the method used to acquire those teachables is just the same for everyone. You unlock Ruin, now you gotta hope you find it on Oni, for instance. You unlock Self-Care, now you gotta hope to find it on Dwight. I can't see any difference there. It takes just as much of a grind on survivors as it does on killers. There is really no point being made, here.
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How can the survivors "get so easly all perks"? You have to grind just as much, even more actually since there are more survivors. There is no difference in unlocking perks between killers and survivors.
In fact, killers earn more bloodpoints on average than survivors.
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Ah, well I think OP just made a inaccuracy in his words.
What he means (according to what I understand) is that because each of the killers are unique unlike survivors when you unlock certain perks you have a bigger grind to go through for the specific perks needed for that killer. For example, for nurse Nurse's Calling is amazing, so you are going around as nurse and relaxing until she is lets say 50. Well the issue is Nurse's Calling is quite terrible for most other killers, so if you ever find this perk for any other killer then its a issue as it only is applicable for one killer in terms of consistent viability.
However if you are a survivor, and you unlock lets say Borrowed time, because of the fact that the survivors are not unique if you ever find that perk in the blood web it is fine and completely viable to use regardless of the survivor. There are many great perks for survivors to use for any survivor, but there are less great perks for killer to use on any specific killer.
So if I unlock one of these borderline brick perks for a killer and then I see that same brick perk for a killer that is only a brick as it does not help that killer with significant regard then I am increasing the grind as I need more BP. Now you have to consider there are many many perks that are not good for any one killer, and you will over time unlock many of these perks (3 per killer) that may or may not be a brick for any other killer(s) that you have and you start having issues.
Hopefully I explained that well.
Post edited by DerpyPlayz on0 -
Let’s not forget the multitude of addons which pollute blood webs for survivors. Bringing up your comparison of nurses to bt is illogical. Survivor perks in general work on every survivor since they don’t have the special ability killers have. Perks that work well with one power may not work well with another and that’s just too bad.
Unless the message is to give survivors special abilities to make the grind somewhat fairer since the scenario in which levels are gained is comparable.
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Let’s not forget the multitude of addons which pollute blood webs for survivors.
Survivor and Killer both have these things, so its redundant to bring up.
Bringing up your comparison of nurses to bt is illogical.
It would be, if this was not just a flat-out lie. I didn't compare either of them, neither did I even explain what they did to even demonstrate such a claim. This is what happens when you don't read peoples reply but reply anyway.
Survivor perks in general work on every survivor since they don’t have the special ability killers have. Perks that work well with one power may not work well with another and that’s just too bad.
Thank you for informally proving me right by your own admission???? Do you not even realize that we are talking about why the grind is more for Killers then survivor with this regarded?? Screw you not reading my reply to someone else, did you even read what this post is about?? XD
Unless the message is to give survivors special abilities to make the grind somewhat fairer since the scenario in which levels are gained is comparable.
No, you are so off of base that you don't even understand what the conversation is about even by your OWN implications. This is again why we read what people say and don't just talk.
No one here even stated what you just said as far as I am aware unless I missed a comment, and even if that were to be the case you are replying to someone trying to help someone understand OP and NOT someone giving solutions to the problem but highlighting it. (0_0)
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Bruh it took me 3 whole months to get all the perks on feng maxed out and 2 more to prestige her It's unfair for both sides tbh
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How do you stack a perk? This may be a stupid question but this is the first I've heard of it.
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Ah, wasn't aware of that. I thought everyone saw everyone else's total.
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Meanwhile Killers get more BPs by default, have an easier way to get Bonus BPs and have way less Junk in their Bloodwebs (aka are more likely to get their good stuff to use more often).
Yeah, totally unfair.
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When you run BBQ and Chili, every unique survivor you hook gives you a stack of BBQ, resulting in a +25% modifier to your total BP's. It is capped at 4 stacks, for 100% extra.
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Like others have said there isn't a fairness issue in this. If you are choosing to play every individual killer to get their perks instead of play one killer and just feed the bloodpoints to another for their perks, that's on you. Getting the perks for killer is just as easy as getting it for survivor, it just takes time and for games not to be over in .5 seconds.
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But most people aren't "mains", as evidenced by the polls section of this forum.
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Thats because the game only says what you earned in the trial, not what it multiplies to afterwards. I get 60k on demo all the time
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Barbeque gives more bloodpoints alone, plus prove thyself only helps you get more bp in the objective category, leaving you with 8 thousand. Killer gets more by default and on a good game you get 60k or more. Survivor gets like 30k. The grind is actually worse for survivors when it comes to perks anyway because there are more perks on rhe survivor side than the killer side. Survivor is harder to grind with
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