Imagine this game was made by another studio

I'll be honest, some of it is just PR. I'm not going to accuse BHVR of anything because I can't speak for them, but I've spoken to enough others to know that it's easier to say something vague to pacify the fans and hope that they accept what eventually comes in the future than it is to sit down and seriously implement what they specifically want. That's both good and bad, depending on the expectations and the results.

That isn't to say that the developers of a game are outright lying. When I was asked to take part in the unfinished game feedback, what 2K games described as a "playtest", rumors had become official that THQ was entering bankruptcy proceedings. It was known that the game in question, "WWE 2K14", would be the bridge between THQ and its employees and 2K and their employees. The game was largely developed by THQ, but 2K sort of took the reigns in the polish and promotional departments. It was a very restless time for everyone involved, in particular the fans. The top brass of THQ remained with 2K (at least at first, though many departed shortly thereafter due to being asked to relocate their homes and other such things) and no one quite knew what to expect. It was a time of transition.

I say this because I was aware from the beginning that my involvement, and the involvement of the others in the small group who were invited to this "playtest", was partly PR. When I got the phone call I was basically told that I was "the big dog of the THQ forums" (their words, not mine - I swear to God) and the most respected member of the community. By being brought in for the chance to play and provide feedback on an unfinished game I would in turn be helping the company to help spread the word, get people excited. Now, to be clear, at no time was I ever instructed to praise the game, lie about my experience, be a corporate shill. I would never have gone for that (I actually quit a job at Gamestop, back when it was "Funco", because I was told by my manager to lie to the customers to get them to buy games). Instead it was sort of an acknowledgement that "we're doing this as a goodwill gesture to show the fans that this transition between companies will be okay, that we're trying our best to leave the series in good hands, and for helping us to spread the word you'll get to come to California for three days and get a rare opportunity to play and discuss a game that's still in development".

So I mean yeah, it's common for companies (video game, movie studios, Walmart, what have you) to try to reinforce a positive image and instill hope and retain faith in the customer, and a lot of the time it's perfectly honest. Just good PR, typical business strategy. But if in the end the results don't deliver, then yeah, people are going to start seeing through it. At that point it begins kind of a landslide - the more they (meaning any company, not specifically BHVR) seem to fail to deliver on their promises or even just hints, suggestions, solicitations of criticism, surveys, etc., the more they're going to ostracize their fans. When that happens a sort of black hole appears between the fans and the company, with both sides seeing the other as ungrateful. And from there, only one of two things can happen: The divide continues and things get worse, or someone says "wait a minute, the customers are upset, we need to own this and try to turn things around".

The end of the THQ / 2K story, as it currently stands, is that in 2019 they released one of the glitchiest, most imcomplete, broken, borderline unplayable catastrophe of a game. People quit, people were fired, the game was rightfully savaged by both fans and the entire gaming press alike, and for the first time in the series' 20 year history they went a year without publishing another edition of the game. Their complacency caught up to them. I again can't speak for BHVR, but I definitely feel that telling your audience that if they don't like it "they can go play Civ instead" is not the right direction to go.

I was actually just thinking of editing my comment to ask what the context of that statement was. It has a confrontational tone so I would imagine (or at least hope) that it was used in defense of some ignorant broad-stroke attack or something.

Your post basically summarizes what I spent many unnecessary words trying to say, which is that yes, the game has its flaws and yes, some of those flaws could do with repairing. Also, yes, the devs could stand to interact with the community more often and more directly, at least from what I can tell. But, having said that, there IS a rather large portion of the community (not saying this specific site, but all over the internet) that does, in fact, seemingly complain about just about anything. That's what led me to mention my experience with THQ at the beginning of this thread. A person hasn't known hell until they've known the feeling of moderating a bunch of angry, entitled wrestling fans. :P

Thank you very much for that compliment, that was a really nice thing to say.

I'm going to try to explain something without sounding like I'm patting myself on the back (which is difficult because this paints me in a very positive light, and I'm honestly not trying to position myself as any kind of hero):

During my time as member of the THQ forums, from 2010 to I think mid 2013, when they shut down and its userbase merged with the 2K forums, I gained a reputation as a very well-respected guy. I'm not entirely sure - mass intoxication I believe - but I think that it's because I (obviously) love to talk, love to have peaceful debates, and probably most importantly to the THQ staff, was very knowledgeable and highly passionate about the WWE game series that they'd been producing for the previous decade.

The reason I say this is to make a point: When others would viciously rant about something that they didn't like, or argue with someone who liked something that they didn't, or go straight to blaming "the clueless idiots at THQ", I would take a more objective approach and try to get them to explain why they felt the way they did without blaming, articulate their grievances more clearly, try to help them understand where they might be wrong or de-escalate the rage that they felt at being right. I guess what I'm saying is that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I absolutely didn't expect anything to come from this, I was just being who I am, but the "community manager" of THQ reached out to me and said that he appreciated my civility. He told me that he liked my posts, mentioned my big passionate "wouldn't it be awesome if the next game had THIS"? thread in his weekly highlight articles, and quickly became good friends with the moderators of the site. They said that I made their jobs easier.

Again, my point is NOT to congratulate myself, please don't take it that way. My point is that by simply trying to be decent and maintain a level head, see things as objectively as I could, and helping others to do the same, my presence was appreciated more than, say, one of the other regulars who kept on insisting that THQ had lazy bug testers. When the opportunity came up one of the moderators asked me if I'd be interested in joining the staff, and after some questions and back and forth debate, I said yes. Here's something else you guys need to know: Moderating is an utterly THANKLESS job. It's difficult, and it's stressful, And being that I was now in a position of authority over my forum friends, it was also very awkward for a while, more so for some than others. But I let everyone know that I would do my best to treat everyone fairly, within the boundaries of my new responsibilities, and I wouldn't play favorites because I liked someone or abuse my "powers" in a way that was wrong. I eventually gave up the position because a newcomer above me instituted a policy that I thought would do more harm to the community than good. We debated it for half an hour in a conference call and despite his wanting me to stay he ultimately said that he wouldn't beg, and that regardless of how I felt this was his call to make. I agreed that it was, and said that I would have to respectfully resign because I didn't feel comfortable enforcing a policy that I felt was wrong. I remained on the forum as a regular user but he and I were cold for the next year.

Then, after that year, I got a surprise call from him asking me to come to the playtest. We buried the hatchet then and there, and I told him that I respected him for being big enough to look past our uncomfortable disagreement and extend the offer. He told me that one of my moderator friends strongly advocated for me and he (the superior) was fully in favor of it. At the playtest we were - I reiterate - NOT in any way pressured or coerced into saying positive things about the game. In fact, for months, we couldn't even say anything about the game anyway. Just vague comments about whether we enjoyed it, that kind of thing. At the playtest, which was in a hotel conference room, all cell phones were taken during the day and the company's attorneys were present at all times. This might also help to provide some perspective to those of you who may get angry or frustrated that certain things aren't clarified, detailed, given straight or immediate answers to, etc. A lot goes into these decisions: marketing, promotion, viability testing, bug testing, contractual agreements, etc etc etc. That said, this was by no means a cold scenario. The people in charge of the playtest treated all of us warmly. We were there as guests, and we spoke as friends. The only difference is that we had to sign extremely restrictive, one-sided NDAs, and our time playing the game was to be equal parts fun AND work to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry to have gone on at such great length and I know that many of you will have scrolled past it thinking "when does this guy stop typing" but I've been doing it for a very honest reason: I wanted to share my experiences to help everyone understand that I got the opportunities that I did because I was enthusiastic and passionate, yes, but more importantly, respectful. Again, I can't and won't speak for BHVR but my own personal experiences have shown me that the chain of command DOES listen, good ideas and thoughtful discussion DOES get noticed, and that just because it may seem like a company is dodging its audience or ignoring complaints or just kicking back in the proverbial mansion lighting cigars with $100 dollar bills doesn't mean that that's actually what's happening. There's a lot that goes into a video game, especially one as ambitious as this, and even more so when licenses and copyrights are involved. But at the end of the day the people who make it are humans just like the rest of us. They feel bad or irritated when they see that their hard work is totally dismissed because someone is angry that they didn't get what they wanted. They get frustrated when something that they want to do doesn't work the way they would have liked. They try to filter out the criticism but sometimes find it difficult to separate it from the emotionally-charged anger.

So, I mean, I won't ever be the guy who comes here and says "quit complaining, the game is fine and it's you who is the problem". Pretty much any game can be improved, and this one's an especially difficult balancing act. But I also won't say that yeah, mocking the company and calling its employees lazy is going to accomplish much. I'm just a random nobody and I was trusted to moderate the forum of a major gaming company, get my name published in one of their strategy guides, and was even trusted to play and provide feedback on a game half a year before its release. So what makes me so special? Nothing. Anyone can do it. Anyone can be taken seriously enough to have their voices heard. Any company has employees who are willing to listen. And to boil down all these novels that I've written, my point is that I was taken seriously because I always demonstrated patience, courtesy, and respect. Trust me, I can attest to the fact that these traits speak louder than rage posting does.

Lol thanks for asking (and I'll be relatively short with this one, sorry for all the long posts about my mundane self). At the moment I don't, no, but I raised rats for ten years between roughly 2002 and 2012. Domestic "fancy" rats are wonderful, affectionate, loyal, playful little buggers. I go with the name "miketheratguy" because during the summer of 2008 I took my tamest rats to a big wooded park near where I used to live and let them play, sometimes in their enclosure on the picnic table while I sat and read and sometimes just running around if I was in an open space and knew that I could trust them not to take off. I got every possible look and comment you could think of, on both ends of the spectrum, but the rats were actually largely popular. Every day I was there people would come up to ask me about them and I loved the opportunity to teach people about them.

Eventually two little girls came to the park with their grandma a few times and loved coming over to pet and play with the rats. They begged their mom (over the phone) if they could get one. I spoke to the mom who was reluctant, but asked me questions, and I explained in honest terms what owning a pet rat is like. One of the requirements is having two (preferably of the same sex) because rats are social by nature and become depressed and even sick when living alone. The mom was like "oh boy, now I have to buy TWO". So I made a deal: I told the mom, and her girls, that if they came back the next day and could prove to me that they'd gone online and read about how to properly take care of rats, and show me that they bought a nice enclosure for them, I would let them have two of mine. They were beyond thrilled, and they went and did exactly as I asked. I saw the girls a couple more times and they were always happy to see me. They called me "the rat guy" and "Mike the rat guy". And the name has stuck ever since.

Though if I'm forced to be fully honest I have to admit that my favorite animals are cats. Thankfully cats and rats generally get along quite well. When the rats aren't confusing and terrifying the cats, lol. :D

As in, actual human girls, or female rodents? I could read your post both ways. XD

LOL yes it would. I don't have any kids myself but have heard various names and descriptions given to them by parents so "my little (human) rats" wouldn't have been a stretch for me.

They really are sweethearts though. Females in particular, though I've had good and bad on both sides. I named one of my girls Shampoo because she wouldn't stop grooming, thus "washing" me.

Ah, beautiful albinos. I used to appreciate them less than other varieties because where I shopped they were quite common, but for some reason they rapidly became rare and I learned to love and accept them as readily as any others (though it's hard for any variety to beat blue dumbos as far as I'm concerned).

I'm guessing you already have experience raising rats but I found long ago that it helps a lot to have your hand laying in their enclosure when you can do so. For example, if it's not too big or if you can sit near it while doing something else (watching TV, etc.), just open it and let your hand rest inside for a little while each day. Not open - you don't want your fingers being nipped - but in a fist, which will allow the rats to become accustomed to your scent and less timid over time. I've employed this trick with many rats and as long as they're not overly afraid / aggressive and liable to bite, it only took maybe a week of doing this for 15 or 20 minutes a day to make them a lot more willing to be handled, come out of their hiding spots, etc.

Here I am with arguably the best little rat my girlfriend and I ever had. She was getting old and loved spending time sleeping on us.

Sorry to have hijacked the thread everybody, I didn't mean to.

we wouldn't have Mathieu Cote.

NO, THANK YOU.