Pallets should regenerate like hooks
Well, the same dynamic should apply to the pallets, since their destruction all over the map prevents the best among the survivors, arrived at the end of the trial, to escape from a chase and therefore survive: I suggest, then, that even the pallets will regenerate, with the same frequency as hooks.
IMPORTANT NOTICE
This speech was intended as a fragment of a larger mosaic, like a piece of the Enigmist's puzzle. Here, I personally believe that the challenge must remain exciting from the first to the last moment, that a player must lose because his opponent proves more skilled or clever, not because the tactical resources offered by the map are now exhausted: I do not like the idea of this going to die of the trial, I do not know if I can explain myself. For example, I would agree to allow the killers to reactivate a curse by lighting a dull totem or repairing a shattered curse totem: if the killer is willing to spend valuable time on a secondary target, it's OK to return him Ruin or Devour Hope or NOED. Of course, all this would require delicate balancing, but I understand the frustration of a killer who feels he has spent a slot perk unnecessarily: the Devs could, to say, impose a repair time directly proportional to the duration of the curse, so the killer re-activates easily if he lost it at the beginning of the game, but had to work hard to get it back if he already enjoyed it for a few minutes. I recognize the guilt of having treated the pallet theme separately from the others, I apologize, and I suggest you to read and comment on the complete, full, organic proposal (possibly in a civilized manner, but now I do not hope so much), that you can find here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31911/map-resources-regeneration
Comments
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I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.31
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The problem with this is that survivors already loop and juke very well without pallets, keeping broken pallets the way they are is far better. They are meant to be a non-permanent way to distance yourself from the killer in areas with no windows. They changed hook sabotaging because there were serious balancing issues and a lot of abusing of that mechanic (even to the point of holding the game up unnecessarily). Pallets are abused currently, hence the recent changes to the number on the map. While I get your logic, what you're suggesting would be a major survivor buff that is rather unnecessary in the game as it curently is.3
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Intensity intensifies intensely
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gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
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Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.MrZapp said:
Intensity intensifies intensely
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
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You're joking right, because that would really screw killers over since the person could basically run around the map using pallets. By the time they got back to their initial starting point the 1st pallet would've respawned already.
I mean talk about infinites, this idea would make old infinites look tame by comparison since you'd never run out of pallets.
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You are absolutely right, and I support every single word you've said.powerbats said:You're joking right, because that would really screw killers over since the person could basically run around the map using pallets. By the time they got back to their initial starting point the 1st pallet would've respawned already.
I mean talk about infinites, this idea would make old infinites look tame by comparison since you'd never run out of pallets.
(I know this doesn't happen very often, that's why I answered this way)6 -
ok....
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@Entità said:
Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.
MrZapp said:Intensity intensifies intensely
Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!
First you need to bring up some arguments, then we can have a civil discussion.
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Okay, relax dude.
If pallets can regenerate, there is no strategy. You have to know and remember the area where the pallets were used. You can't be granted free pallets wherever you go.
Same for hooks, and same for generators.Generators: You can't gen rush on one side of the map and the the last 2 gens be in the middle.
It's strategy.1 -
even though this is probaply bait, let me answer this one for real quickly:
the main problem with your idea is, that you are treating the pallets and the hooks the same way. this shouldnt be the case, as hooks are the primary objective of a killer, while pallets are only t tool for the survivors in order to not get hindered doing their main objective, which would be the generators.
if the killers had the ability to destroy generators with a time consuming animation, i would 100% agree, that these should respawn. however, pallets are not generators. besides the fact, that there are waay more pallets than gens / hooks that need to be completed, these things are a huge time waster, which, combined with them regenerating over time, would lead to an impossible to beat combo, as the survivor could literally run circles around the map, using pallets and then start all over again, as the pallets he used first have regenerated.2 -
I'll just hide in the locker and wait for the results...
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@Master said:
@Entità said:
Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.
MrZapp said:Intensity intensifies intensely
Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!
First you need to bring up some arguments, then we can have a civil discussion.
I take the trouble to answer you analytically, since I have always discussed with pleasure and constructively with you.
To argue means, in sequence:
1) analyze and report the facts (premise of being);
2) apply a criterion of value, justice, opportunity to these facts (premise of having to be);
3) logically infer from the premises 1) and 2) a consequent conclusion.If:
1) the description of the facts does not correspond to reality, then the argument is false;
2) the applied criteria are not universally shared, then the argument is questionable;
3) the process of logical inference is wrong, then the argument is invalid.Here is my topic:
1) I analyzed the history of the sabotage of hooks, which today are regenerated in a certain period of time, and the different regime applied to the pallets, which remain broken (and is irrefutably true: just read the patch notes of the game, regarding hooks, and play it even once, regarding the pallets);
2) I applied a criterion of justice, consisting of the principle of equality (perhaps you do not share, then argues, as others have done meritoriously: @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD );
3) I have logically drawn from the premises 1) and 2) the conclusion that even the pallets should regenerate.The existence of an argument is objective, while you pretend to consider this only the topic you share, as if to say that only the opinions that you arbitrarily decide to approve are debated, instead dialectic does not work like this: you do not have any title to disqualify the opinions of others, considering them non-existent ("First you need to bring up some arguments..."), instead you only have the right to:
A) choose whether or not to spend your time for a replica;
show that the argument of others is false, questionable or invalid;
C) share the argument of others.4 -
Hook don't regenerate if they are used to sacrifice a survivor.
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So this isn't supposed to be a troll post...just wow
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I take the trouble to answer you analytically, since I have always discussed with pleasure and constructively with you.Blueberry said:So this isn't supposed to be a troll post...just wow
To argue means, in sequence:
1) analyze and report the facts (premise of being);
2) apply a criterion of value, justice, opportunity to these facts (premise of having to be);
3) logically infer from the premises 1) and 2) a consequent conclusion.
If:
1) the description of the facts does not correspond to reality, then the argument is false;
2) the applied criteria are not universally shared, then the argument is questionable;
3) the process of logical inference is wrong, then the argument is invalid.
Here is my topic:
1) I analyzed the history of the sabotage of hooks, which today are regenerated in a certain period of time, and the different regime applied to the pallets, which remain broken (and is irrefutably true: just read the patch notes of the game, regarding hooks, and play it even once, regarding the pallets);
2) I applied a criterion of justice, consisting of the principle of equality (perhaps you do not share, then argues, as others have done meritoriously: @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD );
3) I have logically drawn from the premises 1) and 2) the conclusion that even the pallets should regenerate.
The existence of an argument is objective, while you pretend to consider this only the topic you share, as if to say that only the opinions that you arbitrarily decide to approve are debated, instead dialectic does not work like this: you do not have any title to disqualify the opinions of others, considering them non-existent (like @Master did), or to insult others ("troll post..."), instead you only have the right to:
A) choose whether or not to spend your time for a replica; show that the argument of others is false, questionable or invalid;
C) share the argument of others.
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Okay since it seems people are going to take the piss no matter what they do like a bunch of idiots I'm going to give you some constructive criticism. Since it seems most people are incapable of doing so.
Honestly I read your idea and okay... for new players maybe this would be an interesting idea or maybe this would be an interesting idea if you put this in the perk.
However where you shoot yourself in the foot is as follows. Yes pallets should regenerate like hooks but pallets if I have to be honest or placed there by entity to give us some what of a Fighting Chance. Also the developers nerfed palette placement slightly. If they regenerate then God help the killer.
There's way too many perks related to antiloops. That being the case it wouldn't make much sense to have pallets for Generate unless killers are getting some magical instadown build up while just doing so.
Again I see what you're going for but you have to understand that certain killers have weaknesses and some survivors are very good at looping even without pallets so why would it be a good exactly to have pallets regenerate. Some survivors are so good at finding Loops that they literally could just Loop a killer around map and keep doing this for as long as they possibly can.
Pallets are a valuable resource once they used their gone...0 -
@Countfunkular Oh, you have all my esteem for the argumentative capacity on the merits, the calmness of the style and the propensity to respect others, unfortunately rare qualities nowadays. Thanks to @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD too, for their contribution.
On the merits, what would you think of it if:
1) the pallets regenerated, but were not safe (ie the killer can reasonably circumvent them);
2) the pallets could be repaired with a new perk or the reworking of an existing perk?
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If the killer can destroy/sabo pallets before they can be used. Yes, they should regenerate.
But like successfully hooking a survivor till death removes the hook completely out of the game. So if a survivor is using a pallet to gain distance and create an obstacle, the pallet was used successfully, therefore no respawn required. You choose when to use that limited resource of you and not the killer. If your team mismanages this resource you are out of luck. I am sorry.
So if you want them to regenerate let the killers manipulate them. So when you are running to a false pallet and try to throw it down, the killer outplayed you and get a hit or down on you.0 -
No.
Reason? Too OP.It's kinda funny though: You give a great example of something that used to be very OP, suggesting that you can indeed see what is obviously OP and what isn't.
Yet you suggest this.
You're not suggesting downsides to pallets regenerating either, just make 'em spawn again.0 -
I agree. In fact survivors should have a win button, which upon pressing immediately teleports them beyond the gate to the exit barrier.0
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@Boss Two simple replies:1) after 180 seconds the gen near the broken pallets will reasonably be repaired, so that zone of the map will lose the most part of its tactical relevance;2) Cymer did an interesting proposal to amend mine: read it, please.
Alternatevely, what would you think of it if:
1) the pallets regenerated, but were not safe (ie the killer can reasonably circumvent them)?
2) the pallets could be repaired with a new perk or the reworking of an existing perk?
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I recommend you watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeWJcSWe-_0and perhaps all the other 99 video's of those series.
You might not be experienced with the game, but survivors have more pallets than the time the Killer has time to chase and break them before the Generators are done.Because pallets are THAT strong, survivors who try their best can DEPIP a killer about over 90% of the matches. The other 10% are shared by Safety PIPS and Single PIPS.
Because the route for looping killers with pallets is already enough to close down the game, MAKING THEM REGENERATE creates an infinite loop in which the survivors won't even have to bother to use their Pallets even slightly efficiently.
It removes any strategy the killer has left, by not allowing killers to guard Generators in Area's where a lot of pallets have ben broken, through which they could've previously punished the survivors for their mistake
If the mechanic that you suggest would be added, then any half-decent survivor would be able to loop the killer infinitely around the map.
The analogy with Hooks is also terrible, not only balance wise but conceptually:
A hook doesn't regenerate when the killer uses it to sacrifice a survivor, so why should a pallet?
To follow your analogy:
A survivor can disable a hook for a limited amount of time, thus so should killers be able to block unused pallets.2 -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape My proposal was amended with other people's contributions: please read the opening post again, I adjourned it.I seldom use pallets and never do loops: my strenght is stealth playstyle, with excellent results. And I'm fine with hook regeneration after a sacrifice.0
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@Entità
Well here's the thing.
1. With the first one it would be rather difficult for the developers to say which one is safe or not. This is mostly based on the killer because if you're playing clown, doctor, or the chainsaw brothers then no pallet can be considered safe.
2. I hate to say it it would be too map based as well. Fighting a killer in an open field is much different than fighting them on a map of the game. Especially that hospital considering that they are at least five unsafe pallets there at a time.
3. Has for reworking an existing Perk. That would be interesting but would take way too much time just to get it destroyed by a random teammate you didn't want using it in the first place. Also that would encourage building teams to literally have one player that goes around a bunch of safe pallets for survivors and do nothing but rebuild all the used pallets. You would have one being chased by the killer 1 rebuilding every pallet was broken especially the god pallet. 2 working on generators.
It would make matters much more difficult for the killer because if it was a perk only survive with friends would use it. It would make no sense to carry around and solo play just to have some random guy use the pallet I was planning on using.0 -
@Entità
You see, giving hook generation to killers =/= giving regeneration to pallets.
If killers get hook generations after sacrifice then this might help then hook a survivor 5 seconds faster because they have to walk slightly shorter, but giving survivor pallet generation makes the game unplayable for killers. (pallets already do)I don't see why, when you love playing stealthy, you'd want there to be more pallets? The developers Bully Stealth oriented players with all type of anti-stealth perks/location revealing perks/abilities/addons etc incentivising survivors to go for endless loops.
If anything, you should advocate for less pellets and more stealthy tools in the game.
Killers don't have that much options against pallets, but all killers would be able to catch a survivor off guard or could stumble upon them, creating more healthy gameplay.Pallets shouldn't respawn; they should be lowered in numbers/ killers should have more tools against them.
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@Entità said:
@Boss Two simple replies:1) after 180 seconds the gen near the broken pallets will reasonably be repaired, so that zone of the map will lose the most part of its tactical relevance;
2) Cymer did an interesting proposal to amend mine: read it, please.
Alternatevely, what would you think of it if:
1) the pallets regenerated, but were not safe (ie the killer can reasonably circumvent them)?
2) the pallets could be repaired with a new perk or the reworking of an existing perk?If you have a zone where pallets get repaired and there's no generators, it's the perfect place to kite killers to.
And the killer only patrolling the generators would then lead to no result for either side.
Since there's already enough opportunities to kite killers away, i myself am not satisfied with #1.Cymer's suggestion's fine if the killers had the time.
They don't, not with generators being done in 5 minutes.Your alternatives...
1's very vague, i'll need an example.
Tell me if i'm wrong, but i think the devs already said no to #2.In addition, it's helpful to others if you put info that's added later into the topic.
Not everyone likes scrolling through every comment & you'll create clarity quickly.0 -
I would say something but it seems there is nothing left to be said. Like many people above have already said there would be less strategy to the pallets because you're supposed to know the layout of the map if you're experienced. But if pallets respawn then that would just cause the killer to be run around pallets that he has already broken. The only way I can see this happening is if the pallet breaking speed was buffed to the speed of Brutal strength and Brutal strength was buffed to make pallet breaking even faster. Anyway your idea couldn't work in my opinion as it would just make the game for survivors a bit more unskillful as you can just run around throwing pallets early without a care knowing that they'll respawn later. Also poor Freddy, has he not had enough?
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This thread was interesting enough for me to create a profile here and comment. So, here is my input.
In regard to likening the importance of pallets to hooks. As already stated in this thread, pallets are a tool to prolong or escape a chase. Which I'd find equal to a killer's power such as the Trapper's bear traps rather than a hook. These powers can be a tool to help end a chase in the killer's favor.
How frustrating and frequent do survivors loop then slam a pallet on my face already. Afterwhich, the survivor sprints to the next loop with a pallet and repeats this process. A killer could decide to search for another survivor only for this one to do the same. If pallets were to regenerate there would be no end to it.
If pallets were to regenerate with the current frequency and placement then it would tip the scale too far in the survivors' favor. Said frequency and placement would have to be rethought which I believe OP has stated to a degree.
My thinking is that a higher percentage of pallets should spawn near generators and less by looping areas. This would help in getting away from the killer if the survivors are working towards their objective. Loops would still help prolong a chase while not being unfair.
On a side note, I'm so excited for the new killer!
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I think the opposite, I new killer perk should let you destroy X undeployed pallets
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@Countfunkular said:
@Entità
Well here's the thing.
1. With the first one it would be rather difficult for the developers to say which one is safe or not. This is mostly based on the killer because if you're playing clown, doctor, or the chainsaw brothers then no pallet can be considered safe.I hate to say it it would be too map based as well. Fighting a killer in an open field is much different than fighting them on a map of the game. Especially that hospital considering that they are at least five unsafe pallets there at a time.
Has for reworking an existing Perk. That would be interesting but would take way too much time just to get it destroyed by a random teammate you didn't want using it in the first place. Also that would encourage building teams to literally have one player that goes around a bunch of safe pallets for survivors and do nothing but rebuild all the used pallets. You would have one being chased by the killer 1 rebuilding every pallet was broken especially the god pallet. 2 working on generators.
It would make matters much more difficult for the killer because if it was a perk only survive with friends would use it. It would make no sense to carry around and solo play just to have some random guy use the pallet I was planning on using.
1) Maybe, the procedural algorithm could put some regenerating pallets among normal pallets: a surprise for every player.
2) See above.
3) It would be a secondary objective, useful to slow the trial: if you spend 10 seconds to rebuild every pallet you meet, that means less time to heal, rescue, repair, cleanse...@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Entità
You see, giving hook generation to killers =/= giving regeneration to pallets.
If killers get hook generations after sacrifice then this might help then hook a survivor 5 seconds faster because they have to walk slightly shorter, but giving survivor pallet generation makes the game unplayable for killers. (pallets already do)I don't see why, when you love playing stealthy, you'd want there to be more pallets? The developers Bully Stealth oriented players with all type of anti-stealth perks/location revealing perks/abilities/addons etc incentivising survivors to go for endless loops.
If anything, you should advocate for less pellets and more stealthy tools in the game.
Killers don't have that much options against pallets, but all killers would be able to catch a survivor off guard or could stumble upon them, creating more healthy gameplay.Pallets shouldn't respawn; they should be lowered in numbers/ killers should have more tools against them.
I do not want the pallets to regenerate for me: many of my threads are not functional to my personal interest, but respond to my desire to see more varieties of play, more tactical opportunities on the field (see: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/25052/new-perks-offerings or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/28160/six-perks-system or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30705/about-the-release-of-a-map-editor ), or aim at perfectionism in aesthetics or in game mechanics (see: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/28110/about-restoring-the-5-level-rarity-system-for-perks or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30297/decisive-strike-possible-changes-reworks or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31674/environmental-effects ; and sometimes they are even contrary to my prevailing interest: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/29692/memento-moris-buff ) or at peace among players in the Community (see: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/28414/lets-speak-clearly-of-toxicity-from-definitions-to-remedies or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31329/lets-speak-clearly-of-the-hatch-issue-from-definitions-to-remedies ).
About more stealthy tools, I wrote https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31203/detection-and-stealth-perks-buff Your contribution is welcome in every thread I opened.Aren't Spirit Fury, Brutal Strenght and Enduring good killer tools against pallets? What do you suggest to add?
@Boss said:
@Entità said:
@Boss Two simple replies:1) after 180 seconds the gen near the broken pallets will reasonably be repaired, so that zone of the map will lose the most part of its tactical relevance;
2) Cymer did an interesting proposal to amend mine: read it, please.
Alternatevely, what would you think of it if:
1) the pallets regenerated, but were not safe (ie the killer can reasonably circumvent them)?
2) the pallets could be repaired with a new perk or the reworking of an existing perk?If you have a zone where pallets get repaired and there's no generators, it's the perfect place to kite killers to.
And the killer only patrolling the generators would then lead to no result for either side.
Since there's already enough opportunities to kite killers away, i myself am not satisfied with #1.Cymer's suggestion's fine if the killers had the time.
They don't, not with generators being done in 5 minutes.Your alternatives...
1's very vague, i'll need an example.
Tell me if i'm wrong, but i think the devs already said no to #2.In addition, it's helpful to others if you put info that's added later into the topic.
Not everyone likes scrolling through every comment & you'll create clarity quickly.It is an undue generalization: not all games end in five minutes and in any case I think it is the individual killer's business to decide whether to spend time on pallet sabotage or not. Do not you think it's a bit too "paternalistic" to want to protect the killers from possible loss of time, freely chosen by them as part of the challenge and their playstyle?
About your replies to my alternatives:
1) read my reply to @Countfunkular, a few lines above;
2) I really don't know.
I'm periodically editing the opening post.0 -
@Entità said:
@Master said:
@Entità said:
Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.
MrZapp said:Intensity intensifies intensely
Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!
First you need to bring up some arguments, then we can have a civil discussion.
I take the trouble to answer you analytically, since I have always discussed with pleasure and constructively with you.
To argue means, in sequence:
1) analyze and report the facts (premise of being);
2) apply a criterion of value, justice, opportunity to these facts (premise of having to be);
3) logically infer from the premises 1) and 2) a consequent conclusion.If:
1) the description of the facts does not correspond to reality, then the argument is false;
2) the applied criteria are not universally shared, then the argument is questionable;
3) the process of logical inference is wrong, then the argument is invalid.Here is my topic:
1) I analyzed the history of the sabotage of hooks, which today are regenerated in a certain period of time, and the different regime applied to the pallets, which remain broken (and is irrefutably true: just read the patch notes of the game, regarding hooks, and play it even once, regarding the pallets);
2) I applied a criterion of justice, consisting of the principle of equality (perhaps you do not share, then argues, as others have done meritoriously: @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD );
3) I have logically drawn from the premises 1) and 2) the conclusion that even the pallets should regenerate.The existence of an argument is objective, while you pretend to consider this only the topic you share, as if to say that only the opinions that you arbitrarily decide to approve are debated, instead dialectic does not work like this: you do not have any title to disqualify the opinions of others, considering them non-existent ("First you need to bring up some arguments..."), instead you only have the right to:
A) choose whether or not to spend your time for a replica; show that the argument of others is false, questionable or invalid;
C) share the argument of others.1) Yes hooks regenerate over time, pallets are broken if the killer breaks them.
2) Criterion of justice? Excuse me?
With the same logic you can argue that the killer should have the ability to activate some kind of sprintburst because survivors can, or even a dead hard. Does that sound like a criterion of justice or equality? Or how about
I want you to provide actual arguments why pallets should regenerate over time. In my opinion this would immediately break the game if implemented.
And just a side node. Killers were ok with the sabo-meta and adapted accordingly (as usual). The outrage came from the survivor side because they were slugged and were left bleeding out on the floor because the "toxic killer" didnt let them wiggle out. Guess why we have regenerating hooks now
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"I do not want the pallets to regenerate for me: many of my threads are not functional to my personal interest, but respond to my desire to see more varieties of play, more tactical opportunities on the field."
More variety of play? Infinite pallet looping kills off any play at all and makes killer unplayable against any survivor who knows the basics of the game.
Survivors already have more pallets than they need. By the time the killer broke the last pallets, 7-8 gens could have been done.
Currently one of the few things that adds some cool gameplay to the game is the second survivor being chased and not knowing which pallets are broken. If they regenerate even this "scouting" play diversity has been killed off.
IN SUMMARY
Pallet Regeneration is conceptually trash and unrealistic and gameplay-wise it only adds to making this game straight up broken in the Survivor's favour as demonstrated by 1000ths of 1000ths of hours of video material.
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It's one of those, eh?2 -
Just as sabotaged hooks regenerate in a short time, I propose that killed survivors regenerate back onto the map in a short time.
You know, for "variety of play."
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@Entità
That's the thing. If only survive with friends are going to use such an idea or mix it up with randomized pallets. Then it's easily opened to be abused. Let me a layout about the perk and non perk option
Perk
This particular option would be highly recommended for survive with friends now what I gave you up above was a light-hearted example. What though really do is everyone will run this along with self-care into other perks. They will remember what pallets they broken around certain areas of the game like generators or totems. This will completely strip absolute map control for most killers if not all. Also yes those killer perks that are used to break pallets would help but one of them is only useful of all the generators are done and the other you pretty much use once a pallet is dropped for a few seconds but then again a Survivor can throw pallet down in less than a second virtually making it more than you can possibly deal with.
Why would it be fair for survivors to keep running back to the same generator repairing all the palace in that one area just in case they got caught again. This combined with any endurance base perk and you have a problem.
Non perk option
This one is a tad bit fair but can still be just as broken has Survivor memory is a lot better than some might think. If I remember that there's a pallet that can regenerate at a certain spot I'm going to keep going back to that spot. Again it goes back to what I said before there's nothing stopping a good Survivor that knows how to loop from looping a killer from across the map and back. Especially if you get a squad that knows what they're doing. Yes this gives the killer bit more lead way but it will also irritate them knowing that certain Palace that they break will be for naught.
That's the thing the idea is interesting on paper but in practice it will break a lot of other fundamental things about the game. Perks are optional they shouldn't be required. Self cares incredibly powerful so is barbecue and chili but you don't really need them to win a match there just for convenience0 -
Big NO0
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Did you read your own post before you wrote it though? Regenerating pallets is about as balanced as having completed gens regress back to 0.Entità said:Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.MrZapp said:Intensity intensifies intensely
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
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A
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If pallets were to respawn then killers would never get any killsEntità said:Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.MrZapp said:Intensity intensifies intensely
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
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@Master said:
@Entità said:
@Master said:
@Entità said:
Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.
MrZapp said:Intensity intensifies intensely
Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!
First you need to bring up some arguments, then we can have a civil discussion.
I take the trouble to answer you analytically, since I have always discussed with pleasure and constructively with you.
To argue means, in sequence:
1) analyze and report the facts (premise of being);
2) apply a criterion of value, justice, opportunity to these facts (premise of having to be);
3) logically infer from the premises 1) and 2) a consequent conclusion.If:
1) the description of the facts does not correspond to reality, then the argument is false;
2) the applied criteria are not universally shared, then the argument is questionable;
3) the process of logical inference is wrong, then the argument is invalid.Here is my topic:
1) I analyzed the history of the sabotage of hooks, which today are regenerated in a certain period of time, and the different regime applied to the pallets, which remain broken (and is irrefutably true: just read the patch notes of the game, regarding hooks, and play it even once, regarding the pallets);
2) I applied a criterion of justice, consisting of the principle of equality (perhaps you do not share, then argues, as others have done meritoriously: @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD );
3) I have logically drawn from the premises 1) and 2) the conclusion that even the pallets should regenerate.The existence of an argument is objective, while you pretend to consider this only the topic you share, as if to say that only the opinions that you arbitrarily decide to approve are debated, instead dialectic does not work like this: you do not have any title to disqualify the opinions of others, considering them non-existent ("First you need to bring up some arguments..."), instead you only have the right to:
A) choose whether or not to spend your time for a replica; show that the argument of others is false, questionable or invalid;
C) share the argument of others.1) Yes hooks regenerate over time, pallets are broken if the killer breaks them.
2) Criterion of justice? Excuse me?
With the same logic you can argue that the killer should have the ability to activate some kind of sprintburst because survivors can, or even a dead hard. Does that sound like a criterion of justice or equality? Or how about
I want you to provide actual arguments why pallets should regenerate over time. In my opinion this would immediately break the game if implemented.
And just a side node. Killers were ok with the sabo-meta and adapted accordingly (as usual). The outrage came from the survivor side because they were slugged and were left bleeding out on the floor because the "toxic killer" didnt let them wiggle out. Guess why we have regenerating hooks now
The killer already has a sort of "sprint burst": it's called "bloodlust", it's automatic, it was not there originally, it was added later and I fully endorse it. The killer is meant to hurt, down and hook up survivors to death, and enjoys special tools, which help him in chase, ambush, attack. The survivor is meant to escape the killer's attacks, and we know very well that no escape is possible by running in a straight line, so pallets and vaults are crucial to offer the survivor an opportunity to escape: the vaults are blocked, in case of triple use, only for a few seconds, after which they can be used again, by the same and by the other survivors, so even the pallets should be usable again, after a congruous and not short period of time. The killer has a power basically equal to a team of four survivors: as they die, the power of the killer over the survivors grows enormously. Now, I ask you: would a killer be in crisis if the last survivor could use a previously spent pallet again? The killer who chased a survivor without problems with all the pallets intact, while another three of his companions worked on generators or totems, would be desperate to follow the last victim left with some recycled pallets, while no one else does anything, because other people are dead? I do not speak of a regeneration after a few seconds: six or more minutes, will be the tests to quantify the most appropriate waiting.
To tell the truth, this speech is a fragment of a larger mosaic, like a piece of the Enigmist's puzzle. Here, I personally believe that the challenge must remain exciting from the first to the last moment, that a player must lose because his opponent proves more skilled or clever, not because the tactical resources offered by the map are now exhausted: I do not like the idea of this going to die of the trial, I do not know if I can explain myself. For example, I would agree to allow the killers to reactivate a curse by lighting a dull totem or repairing a shattered curse totem: if the killer is willing to spend valuable time on a secondary target, it's OK to return Ruin or Devour Hope or NOED. Of course, all this would require delicate balancing, but I understand the frustration of a killer who feels he has spent a slot perk unnecessarily: the Devs could, to say, impose a repair time directly proportional to the duration of the curse, so the killer re-activates easily if he lost it at the beginning of the game, but had to work hard to get it back if he already enjoyed it for a few minutes. As you see, I'm not a fanatic, I do not hate killers, I do not want to ruin the game to anyone: I dream of a richer mechanics, but I recognize the guilt of having treated the pallet theme separately from the others. I apologize, and I will remedy with a special thread.
@AlwaysInAGoodShape @Countfunkular The answer above is also for you. I do not reply in detail to your specific objections because, as I have already said, this thread is born as a fragment of a wider discourse, that I would have to set integrally from the beginning, to avoid any misunderstanding: what was meant to be a more orderly treatment was instead perceived as madness against the killers and attack against the game. It never has been. My mistake, I will remedy with a special thread, which addresses the whole matter.
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Great idea! Let's also make a button survivors press to make 3 generators completed instantly! Let's also make it so survivors can kill the killer, to balance the game!! Survivors need a buff, they are so very underpowered!
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@Entità The killers sprint burst isn't instant and is lost on los breakers or when breaking said pallets. So everytime the killer has to stop and break that pallet they lose bloodlust completely.
What you're suggesting will make it impossible for any killer other than Nurse or perhaps Spirit to catch them since it's endless pallets.
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Good thing I'm learning her right now lol.powerbats said:@Entità The killers sprint burst isn't instant and is lost on los breakers or when breaking said pallets. So everytime the killer has to stop and break that pallet they lose bloodlust completely.
What you're suggesting will make it impossible for any killer other than Nurse or perhaps Spirit to catch them since it's endless pallets.
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My brain just flushed itself through the toilet.1
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Tl;drEntità said:@Master said:
@Entità said:
Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.
MrZapp said:Intensity intensifies intensely
Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!
First you need to bring up some arguments, then we can have a civil discussion.
I take the trouble to answer you analytically, since I have always discussed with pleasure and constructively with you.
To argue means, in sequence:
1) analyze and report the facts (premise of being);
2) apply a criterion of value, justice, opportunity to these facts (premise of having to be);
3) logically infer from the premises 1) and 2) a consequent conclusion.If:
1) the description of the facts does not correspond to reality, then the argument is false;
2) the applied criteria are not universally shared, then the argument is questionable;
3) the process of logical inference is wrong, then the argument is invalid.Here is my topic:
1) I analyzed the history of the sabotage of hooks, which today are regenerated in a certain period of time, and the different regime applied to the pallets, which remain broken (and is irrefutably true: just read the patch notes of the game, regarding hooks, and play it even once, regarding the pallets);
2) I applied a criterion of justice, consisting of the principle of equality (perhaps you do not share, then argues, as others have done meritoriously: @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD );
3) I have logically drawn from the premises 1) and 2) the conclusion that even the pallets should regenerate.The existence of an argument is objective, while you pretend to consider this only the topic you share, as if to say that only the opinions that you arbitrarily decide to approve are debated, instead dialectic does not work like this: you do not have any title to disqualify the opinions of others, considering them non-existent ("First you need to bring up some arguments..."), instead you only have the right to:
A) choose whether or not to spend your time for a replica; show that the argument of others is false, questionable or invalid;
C) share the argument of others.
This is the internet (and a murder game simulator forum nonetheless) not a postgraduate thesis.
I believe most users/readers will agree with Shakespeare when it comes to lengthy forum posts.
I love reading constructive discussions about this game....but this? C'mon....you can do better.1 -
Great idea! Let's change the Survivors only limited ressource and make it infinite! Right now a somewhat, tactical use of said ressource is required and if used ineffective, this might cost the Survivors a win! This is absolutely unacceptable, the possibility of failure and the requirement of tactical and smart plays should be removed and replaced by something that's easy to use with no consequences.
Again, great suggestion! Pallets ftw so let's make DbD interesting again! That's what a Hide & Seek game needs - infinite possibilities to run a Killer in circles.
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@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY @FoggyDownpour @MrZapp @Link @powerbats @Tsulan @Master @ReneAensland @Mister_xD @GhostrickSpecter @Dragonredking @Blueberry @Countfunkular @Cymer @Boss @EntityDispleased @The_Crusader @AlwaysInAGoodShape @PhantomMask20763 @Kabu @BACKSTABBER @HellDescent @knell @Fenrir @thekiller490490 @Nickenzie @MrMyers @BieLey @Attackfrog @PiiFree
To tell the truth, this speech was intended as a fragment of a larger mosaic, like a piece of the Enigmist's puzzle. Here, I personally believe that the challenge must remain exciting from the first to the last moment, that a player must lose because his opponent proves more skilled or clever, not because the tactical resources offered by the map are now exhausted: I do not like the idea of this going to die of the trial, I do not know if I can explain myself. For example, I would agree to allow the killers to reactivate a curse by lighting a dull totem or repairing a shattered curse totem: if the killer is willing to spend valuable time on a secondary target, it's OK to return him Ruin or Devour Hope or NOED. Of course, all this would require delicate balancing, but I understand the frustration of a killer who feels he has spent a slot perk unnecessarily: the Devs could, to say, impose a repair time directly proportional to the duration of the curse, so the killer re-activates easily if he lost it at the beginning of the game, but had to work hard to get it back if he already enjoyed it for a few minutes. I recognize the guilt of having treated the pallet theme separately from the others, I apologize, and I suggest you to read and comment on the complete, full, organic proposal (possibly in a civilized manner, but now I do not hope so much), that you can find here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31911/map-resources-regeneration
Incidentally, it is very interesting the moral stoning put in place against the promoter of a "heretical" idea, there would be material to revolutionize sociology studies about the fact that the Middle Ages is not set at all, that the burning of witches is still in vogue, and no, I have no prejudices against the Hag...
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