"Second Chance" perks, Pallet loops, loops, infinites, and skill checks
I made this post a minute ago but in my edit for skill checks it got lost in the interweb
With the increase of perks such as mettle of man, soul guard, ds, borrowed time, unbreakable, adrenaline, deliverance, dead hard, and so on. Do survivors really need this many chances to make mistakes and not get punished? I get I am a killer main since 2016 but I recently went in as David King with dead hard, deliverance, selfcare, and were gonna live forever. I started at rank 20 (since I do not play much survivor anymore) and found that its actually lightyears easier than killer is. I went against a leather face ran him through 3 pallets did not even need to drop them got to a jungle gym with two windows and a pallet went through each window twice then dropping my first pallet, with that my team popped two gens. I then proceeded to lose him after I pallet stunned him went and worked on the third gen while my other teammate looped him around at this point with no hooks yet. We won the game and easily escaped what should be a fearsome killer yet...I sat on my gen 360 my camera hitting easy skill checks listening to podcasts. With not only having loops and pallets, I also have red stain to indicate where the killer is intending on going and can loop safely making almost any loop an infinite and have another route planned while looping and looking for my next play ground. I do not think playing survivor is that hard or scary mostly boring repetitive games of hitting a scaled down arcade circle light machine where if you hit the sweet spot in the circle you win but not really because the hit zones for these are so forgiving you basically have to be afk to miss these and can monitor the map utilizing the 3rd person view for area surveillance. I played 6-8 games like the one just described and made it to rank 17 I think, pretty easily. With my SWF back in 2016 we were all purple and red ranks just by running borrowed time, spine chill, ds, and urban evasion. We took turns getting hooked looping and doing gens as the game mandated we should play during that time.
Now that we have all these resources and knowledge should survivors really have all these resources in game when the killer only has two resources and 4 perks some of which are even able to be disabled before the game even really begins? (hex perks I am looking at you)
1.) instead of the basic circle skill checks, what about hitting certain keys or buttons and reducing the time to hit them, or camera movements to keep survivors distracted on doing the gen and invertantly buffing stealth killers who would be a little stronger by survivors not having the ability to 360 a camera with Spine chill on a gen.
2.) Halve the pallets and loops on the map, there should be thrilling chase sequences not "I am going to chase you to this loop and the next and the next and the-oh wait the gates are powered oh you have hope/adrenaline? GG".
3.) Nerf the "Second Chance" perks or get rid of them, and keep the amount of pallets. Survivors should be scrambling for resources not found in an environment to use to slow the killer not rely on them for safety but rather a brief reprieve to try and hide to lose the killer not stay in a 10 minute chase with them. Also pallets could be tied to stronger survivor perks like hex totems to hex perks when a "golden" or "god" pallet is broken all strong survivor perks used or not linked to that pallet are now disabled for the trial. Its only fair considering a killer is going against 16 perks and his 4 perks if all hex perks can be negated make theirs able to be negated as well.
4.) Add other objectives rather than just gens or slow down gen speeds 2 gens should not be popped faster than it takes to load my game. Survivors wait 15 minutes or more sometimes for a game I can not speak for them but think they would agree longer games would be ideal considering the wait times in lobbies and lobby dodgers.
5.) REWORK USELESS PERKS FASTER put them into ptb make the balanced ones the community likes live and keep redoing the ones that people consider weak or op until they reach a healthy state.
6.) Add more horror elements with scares. I really wanted a killer who traverses via lockers and if a survivor was in a locker while the killer traversed or in the area the killer pulled the survivor in and morid them because that jump scare would be killer. (see that joke there haha)
7.) I love the game I do I remember first being told about it in best buy complaining there was not a game like this but to the true fans of the game, This was not the direction we thought the game was going to go, we want to be scared again and feel like we earned the right to survive not go into a game saying "butt dance at gate lmao" or seeing the killer and being like ggez its the wraith, trapper, hag, pig, etc. Put the fear back into the game make the game darker more fog harder to see the killer make everyone uneasy. The players will come back when the state of the game is fixed rather than pumping out killers to bandaid patch the game until the broken meta build is found again to break the game.
Thanks for reading if you made it this far, upvote, comment, let the devs know what we want, and how to make this game return to its former glory where we all had fun scaring, and being scared!
Comments
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You could've just said "I'm a killer main and I want a free 4K every match" and left it at that, you know?
I mean, these suggestions are massive, MASSIVE buffs to killers/nerfs to survivors. You want them to not be able to look around, you want them to fail skillchecks and do the killer's intel gathering job for them, you want them to not be able to run, you want to remove half the usable survivor perks, you want a classic mori...
The ONLY one I somewhat agree with is point 4: Making the game longer. But only under the condition that Spirit gets reworked, Nurse gets a touch-up, and camping, tunnelling and slugging are made considerably less viable, to even things out on both sides.
Honestly, who on earth thinks Deliverance is a 'second chance perk'?
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deliverance is a second chance perk, under normal circumstances if the team values gens over you, you die. That was how it was before saw DLC. I had that happen to me many times but it was my fault for being caught out but enough survivors complained about 3 man SWF's leaving them to die they put it in and it gives you a second chance with out other survivors having to come and get you.
You have 6 tools when the killer has two built into the game red stain, terror radius, infinites, jungle gyms, pallets, pallet loops, second floors if you cannot survive with all of those are you really playing the game they hold your hand because as you are proving you cannot develop your own skill to mind trick the killer or stay stealthy enough to survive.
When I first played the game in 2016 as survivor we used to yell at each other for leaving scratch marks but now you can run anywhere anytime no problem. Your points about nurse and spirit are not that major the nurse was untouched for at least 3-4 years after her nerf shortly after release because she was balanced if you are good you are good you are bad you get punished I had to play her to prestige 3 to be able to get reliable 4k that is when I was not placed with ranks 1-4 who knew how to counter her. I mean should we just change the name to survive by daylight and add in an AI killer so everyone can escape every game and not cry or be salty that the killer is stronger than 4 survivors with 16 perks combined?
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its not failing skill checks its putting the skill back into skill checks in 2016 on release yea it worked got players introduced to gens but its obvious players do not have trouble hitting them now even with killer perks that shorten them. And I say to you "you could have just said my 6 built in tools and 4 perks and 3 lives are not enough for me to escape and I need more help"
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Basically you want killers to get a 4k every match and for survivors to be so weak they cant do anything. Thank god you arent a dev.
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basically put survivors back to being stealthy you cant crouch and not be found? You want an action game with chase scenes you win and easy skill checks go play re:6, oh wait this is turning into re:6
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No your plan is to make survivors so weak they will constantly lose. Do killers need to be buffed? Yes but not to this extent. I think only killer mains will like this idea lol cause it gives them an easy win.
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honestly its just as hard this is how the game used to be played, You have to find survivors. Now although they just run around because why should they not? I mean what is honestly hard about survivor that any of the proposed changes are giving free 4k's, did you play at launch because you have not seen free 4k if you did not the roles flipped way to fast with no balance. State you issue rather than general accusations.
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Mate you lost credit with me when you said you tun Self care and you said your swf were all running urban evasion? No good swf runs urban.
Now both sides have second chance perks. Killer for example have:
- NOED
- Undying
- Spirit Fury (If your counting Deliverance then I'm counting this)
Also for all those second chance perks that increase/give an extra health state then you need to include every power and perk that removes 2 health states. There is so many of these I don't want to count them all.
Also you can't half the amount of pallets or loops in the map. Your only hurting solo q which is already the weakest group in the game.
Right now no killer should be complaining. After the DS nerf the tunnelling has been at an all time high and has already had pallets and maps nerfed a year ago. The Game map is a mistake survivors also agree needs nerfed. After every nerf killers can't keep going "Great, now nerf again".
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Heres the problem with those you just listed lets say I am playing (insert whatever killer here) and I take ruin and undying, thats two perk slots, noed thats 3 that can all be destroyed. What can I do as killer when I am protecting 3 hexes, 5 gens, while chasing one survivor for 4-7 minutes (assuming they know loops like any survivor past rank 16). Why am I not allowed to destroy one of 16 of their perks but they can now destroy 75% of mine. Leaving me one perk also noed is easily taken out because most players with brains assume NOED is on and cleanse the 5 dulls to ensure its not going to be used. If it is usable great so I am assuming that the end game is now inevitable no matter how I play because that is fair? This is why killers tunnel, camp, and proxy because when we play fair we get screwed for doing good. I have never taken spirit fury its useless I have to let myself be stunned waste time just for the one pallet to break out of the 20 on the map great value. While the time it does work the survivor just has a friend come and blind me or body blocks the hook with all three of them so I can not hook them.
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it would take average 2-5 minutes I think we can agree if a normal killer is chasing you to get a first hit or down if they sneaked a first hit. multiply that by 8 for each survivor thinking they are just lined up to take hits and loop that is a minimum 16 minutes how long does it take to do 5 gens? definitely not 16 minutes, so yes if you have deliverance and I go away to check gens I now have to go back find you while three gens pop and two more are worked on while I chase you. Worst case you die three escape if I do not chase you I chase a full health survivor for another 4 min at least which gives enough time to work the last three gens. lose, lose.
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We can't agree, because I am a sucky killer and I don't take 2-5 minutes to down someone.
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well either way I just saw to complete 5 gens takes 400 seconds which at most is 7 minutes so theoretically a game should be no longer than 8 min if survivors know what they are doing.
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also I just saw that the game suffered a 9 thousand player loss in September of last year so I am just uninstalling so I do not have to see one of my beloved franchises ruined by these developers. When they fix their game I will come back until them I will just be programming my own as a student project.
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That's under the assumption that the killer chases literally no one and all survivors are instantly on separate gens.
Like... what?
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no that just saying one survivor stay with me ok, is being chase.....one survivor being chased....3*80=240, one survivor per gen that is a minute and a half chase assuming the killer found the survivor at the start of the game but by a min and a half 3 gens should be popped. Lets say the survivor has dead hard and loops another minute (1 minute) total time now is 2 and 1/2 minutes gets hooked last 2 gens gets popped by 3 survivors. Gates are opened 3 of the survivors rush hook unhook the looper and game over easy 4 man escape its not that hard to understand.
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and your thinking is fundamentally wrong one survivor per gen at the same time so in 80 second 3 gens can pop so it could be even less than I previously stated. Then they just need 2 more gens another 80 seconds to pop all while only one survivor is looping.
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If a dead hard nets you a full minute of extra loop, you are doing something wrong.
Again, you are assuming that all survivors are spread neatly across the map, immediately on a gen, and not letting go until they're done, at which point they immediately -teleport- to the next gen. And somehow, that one person is capable of looping you in the exact same spot for 2.5 full minutes. That by definition means you used and whiffed your power -constantly-, because otherwise you'd have bloodlust and become unloopable.
Yes, gens go fast, but you are trying to balance the game around a killer that doesn't know how to play at all, vs. a full swiffer team of hackers.
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Then you play killer to rank 8 and tell me the kinds of survivors you see and encounter because I don’t believe you’ve ever played against a SWF that had more than two brain cells all together, the devs never planned on communication between survivors and it’s not been healthy ever since but if they nerf it people are gonna quit and not buy their 10 dollar skins. Go ahead and just play your role of looping looking for red stain while your team focuses gens you’ve must have not had good teammates if you’ve never had a game like the ones I’ve had on killer and survivor side it’s not hard and never will be. As soon as killers will be buffed or game will be extended better believe survivors will get an extra 3 assist game mechanics to help the devs even said with pig and her power they don’t think survivors can keep up with two timers therefore disabled the traps at end game. If that doesn’t tell you the extent of trust the devs have in survivors game play without crutches idk what will otherwise they would’ve let pig be and not completely ruin her end game.
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But like I said I’m done with DBD no point in continuing if I don’t like what’s available I’ll make my own. At the least it will give competition and can improve what DBD refuses to fix. So go stun a killer, destroy a hex, and wait for your ai killers in the new survive by daylight.
p.s. Rest In Peace death garden the game who’s potential was never realized...
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1) You said yourself, you are a Rank 20 survivor because you don't play much anymore, but still play a lot killer. Rank 20 is not the norm for balance. Of course it is easy to vs a true rank 20 killer with your knowledge. Not a surprise.
2) Yes there are many 2nd Chance perks, but a lot of them work only once (Adre, Deliverance etc) or are not very viable because of their restrictions (MoM, Soul Guard etc). There should be some adjustments to some of them though: f.e. DH or Adrenaline. They don't need to be tied to godpallets.
3) Spine Chill and Premonition just should not work against an Undetectable killer, like it was with an EWI Myers.
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It’s just annoying that hex perks which are not that strong or viable now can be deleted before killer has a chance to use em and build them up but survivors will always have theirs until they decide to use them. That’s my main issue and if you take undying that’s another perk destroyed just to potentially buy another couple min of a perk that could help if it’s not immediately destroyed I went from 20-17 in less than 8 games and won every game
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I used to be in purple ranks with my SWF friend group when plague was added I think because I switched from Ps4 to pc and never got fully back into survivor I just play it drunk bc it’s easy to do with friends while drunk screaming
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the only reason I said adrenaline and end game perks is because when you’re just trying to kill one person and they all 4 have adrenaline and being a non toxic killer not brining NOED or they destroy all full totems it’s makes you feel like you did something wrong in the game when you didn’t you can’t control the game it’s all about wether or not survivors make mistakes and if they don’t make those mistakes or have those mistakes forgiven it makes balancing a nightmare. As well as giving a status complex where survivors can feel like since I used dead hard, iron will, soul guard, DS I should get to love if I don’t make it out the killer camped tunneled and made the game unplayable for me...punishing mistakes is a lot harder now and the more they go unpunished the more normal it becomes to escape those parts where they should’ve died, promoting an entitled attitude toward surviving, kinda like how Moris promoted entitled 4k for killers. I would listen to my friend flame killers and solo survivors when they caused her to die or didn’t save her because the game was subliminally telling her she should’ve lived.
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That is something which I also don't understand. Old Ruin was very strong unreliable. Now it's OK and unreliable. All totems are rng and they should be everything or nothing. Their power should reflect that.
Or they should hide totems like on midwich or hawkins. Then I would be fine with mediocre power.
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Idk I just know I never get to use totems because they’re always cleansed before I can even use them, maybe have them blocked til they reach a certain stack to grant some kind of use
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Also new players don’t understand how survivor worked before second chance perks there was actual skill not being carried to red because of how many times you can troll a killer I’ll just wait as you queue times go up and up until more people quit been thinking of just playing survivor I mean it’s super easy and I can just prove my points time and time again that if you lose as survivor there’s something missing
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Hiding them better would do at least something. They removed the lighthouse totem (that atop of the hill) 2 years ago on some maps only to bring it back with the reworks. Best totem maps are all indoor maps and the saloon. Worst spots are on MacMillan, Autoheaven, Ormond, Farm (even the new version) and Haddonfield. The other maps are quite balanced.
They also need to spawn totems away from gens and Survivor spawn points.
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