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Wraith has been Overbuffed and is now meta

Shirokinukatsukami
Shirokinukatsukami Member Posts: 1,624
edited May 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

Wraith has always had the reputation of being a weak killer, but taht era is over. Frankly I never though Wraith was a weak killer; he was problematic to verse for many reasons (the main one being how difficult it is to maintain positioning against him -- which is the most important skill in the game for a survivor) but he was fine before and indeed a bit on the weaker side without his super add-ons.

Now though that is simply not the case. Wraith has beenoverbuffed, with his invisibility buffs, his decloak buffs, and everything else. Wraith is OP right now and everyone knows it but no one will admit it here. I play DBD these days it's basically the Wraith show -- it's close to how Spirit was 2 years ago.

Every other game is Wraith. It's like how every game was a Spirit back then. Even during a Tome where Plague is the featured killer.

And he is practically unstoppable. Without add-ons he's manageable but still a headache. With Swift Hunt and Windstorm he is practically unbeatable.

I know all the killers will still say he is still weak, but this isn't really the case. Worse, Wraith still attracts the worst of the killer playerbase -- the tunnelers and campers who will just kill someone off the bat by tunneling hard. And if Wraith wants you dead you are dead. You can't lose him, you can't outrun him, and you can't even see him!

They need to dial Wraith back down a bit. He's in a similar position as Leatherface (overcompensated buffs) but frankly it's atrocious how meta he is now.

Post edited by Mandy on
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Comments

  • onemind
    onemind Member Posts: 3,089

    Honestly I think that his addons (other than the Clappers) need a touch up

    And if I were to change anything about base I would add a 3s delay where he cant uncloak after cloaking to deny the people who abuse his speed burst

  • QwQw
    QwQw Member Posts: 4,625

    I personally find Wraith to be the most annoying and boring killer in this entire game, but he's not op. He still has counters to his power.

  • Aneurysm
    Aneurysm Member Posts: 5,270

    Everyone knows he's clearly more busted than spirit but they're too afraid to say it in case of what could happen to them. The wraithspiracy goes all the way to the top

  • Crypticghoul
    Crypticghoul Member Posts: 575

    I'm alright with his base kit despite it feeling bad to play against due to it being very binary and low effort.

    All-seeing, silent bell, and bone clapper are just way too strong with all the other additions to his kit now though. Throw in any of these and he's just downright miserable to play against imo.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 12,666

    Overbuffed? I don't think so. I had not played him since late 2019, and when I did give him a shot recently things felt so much better.

  • valvarez4
    valvarez4 Member Posts: 868

    So in some games you have to play harder to secure the 4k and you think he’s not op? What do you want? Easy 4k every game?

  • Nameless
    Nameless Member Posts: 869

    Windstorm being basekit hardly changes anything... Wraith players always ran Windstorm anyways and nobody complained about it being too broken then? I suppose the lunge speed could be reverted but in all honesty I think Wraith is finally a good spot right now.

  • Yords
    Yords Member Posts: 5,795

    lmao no of course not, why would you say something so short-sighted? I literally said that he is not OP and you will still struggle against survivors playing well just as you would before.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    I agree. Any killer that has map traversing abilities with little to no cooldowns are massive problems on these tiny maps. Nurse (of course), Billy and Wraith.

  • MB666
    MB666 Member Posts: 971


    base kit wraiths its fine.....now windstorm addons on him ....is kinda overbuffed.........WINDSTORM ADDONS... should decrease speed while uncloaking... like it used to be before.. to compensate the insane map pressure a wraith can get from this addons ...because double windstorm addons + insane lunge = is just insanely good------ w/out any penalty for using double windstorm

  • stikyard
    stikyard Member Posts: 592
    edited May 2021

    Awww, look guys. He even struggled in one game to get the 4k...

    This is the problem, the game should be balanced around two kills and two escapes, that's even, that's a draw.

    Killers are so obsessed to get 4k, that BHVR basically needs to buff every Killer into Meta land or people will cry and won't play him.

  • WishIcouldmain
    WishIcouldmain Member Posts: 4,082
    edited May 2021

    Just looped a Wraith for four gens on Haddonfield he DC'd. Wraith seems good but once you get to the best survivor maps Wraith will cry.

  • kisfenkin
    kisfenkin Member Posts: 668

    I agree, he is too fast. I don't know if resetting his speed will be the right choice though. I expect we will see cloaking cooldown timers any day now. Perhaps for every time you uncloak you get a token that adds a second or two to the time it takes to cloak/uncloak.

  • Flawless_
    Flawless_ Member Posts: 349
    edited May 2021

    Never thought I'd see the day when people would complain about the Wraith being OP but here we are...

    Goes to show, people will whine about this game no matter what the devs change, which they in turn can use as an excuse not to implement changes that are actually needed. Smh.

    Post edited by Flawless_ on
  • Yords
    Yords Member Posts: 5,795
    edited May 2021

    Bruh all I said was that I struggled to get a 4k. I always try to go for them and if I don't, then no biggie. This makes me seem like one of those "entitled killer mains" when I am not, and I am not obsessed with 4ks. Is it wrong to always try and kill as many survivors as you can?

    And yeah people cry about certain killers being weak, why wouldn't they? Why would people play a weak killer like Trapper if they are always struggling to secure any kills?

  • SeannyD115
    SeannyD115 Member Posts: 583

    Imagine if they buff trapper to have two traps at base. Then we will have people complaining about him.

  • SeannyD115
    SeannyD115 Member Posts: 583

    Wraith still has the same counters as before his buff.

    Paying attention to your surroundings and listening for his growling.

    As for looping him if he goes into stealth you can infinitely vault windows since you get out of a chase when he goes into stealth.

    If you want to bring a perk to counter him use spine chill. Then you will have more time to prepare for him.

  • ALostPuppy
    ALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,398

    There are now several forum threads full of people complaining about ######### Wraith. Never thought I'd see the day.

  • Sypherpathic
    Sypherpathic Member Posts: 488

    Agree here. Sometimes (albeit at lower ranks - I'm around 11), the Wraith will uncloak next to me and hit me even when I see his heat shimmer coming and run to escape. Additionally, along with a lot of killers since reset, the wraith killers I come against will "patrol" near the hooked and then zoom back in to get a quick 1-2-3 hook on one survivor which is boring for the survivor.

    Tunneling and camping is kind of a whatever situation. I've seen survivor groups do nothing under these circumstances and groups also get at least a couple of survivors out by working gens hard during camping/tunneling. It's just a strategy that happens to boring af for survivors.

  • Yords
    Yords Member Posts: 5,795

    I think that is just because of matchmaking. I know for sure that most of the survivors I play against just aren't too good of players. I don't think it is because Wraith was overbuffed, but rather because of terrible or nonexistent mmr.

  • NomiNomad
    NomiNomad Member Posts: 3,181

    My guy, I've been maining Wraith for the past three years. I don't gotta thing to prove to you. You have your opinion, I have mine.

  • NomiNomad
    NomiNomad Member Posts: 3,181

    In my experience, it has not done much, and it never has. Old Windstorm + Bone Clapper or All Seeing was always better, and now it's a similar thing.

    I've never needed Swift Hunt. It has never been useful to me. Our experiences are different. That's literally all there is to say.

    You have your opinion. I have mine.

  • blue4zion
    blue4zion Member Posts: 2,773

    Kinda hard to say it was overbuffed, considering he's mostly the same as he could be before but with the ability to use other addons.

    I think he's just in a good spot now. Low A Tier, potentially.

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968

    Unpopular opinion but for the sake of game balance, all killers should eventually be buffed into the A or B tier. The more powerful the killer role is, the more impactful each individual survivor is allowed to be because the killer has the ability to manage them. Just nerfing killers is a kneejerk reaction, especially considering Wraith has always been nerfed with his buffs. Every single time he got one, they also detracted from somewhere.

  • BastardKing
    BastardKing Member Posts: 784

    They are projecting their entitlement onto you. Anyone with reading comprehension can see that you didn't say you shouldn't struggle. Problem is, some people expect it to be easy.

    As for Wraith, he is fine. Loops should not be 100% safe. You should have to actually play correctly at them. You should not always be able to reach the next loop before a killer catches you. That is how 4 gens get done in a single chase.

    The closest thing to having a problem with him that I see is that he seemed to be balanced around NEEDING an add on. Previously, Wraith without Windstorm was as worthless as Trapper without a sack. Now, he doesn't need Windstorm, so other combinations have become viable. That is what people aren't prepared for.

  • BastardKing
    BastardKing Member Posts: 784

    Unrelated, but even if they balance the killers, a problem does occur in that killer in general cannot be addressed easily because each killer attacks in a different way. Wraith, Ghostface, Twins, and Oni, for example, are at their strongest when the survivors don't heal, so you need to heal whenever possible. Healing against Leatherface, Plague, or Legion is almost always a waste of time. Changing generators impacts low mobility killers way more than high mobility killers. Changing maps massively impacts trap based killers, both for good and bad, but is largely ignored by teleporting killers, like Freddy, Demo, and Nurse. I almost think they need to balance killer in general first, then do the individual killers, so they can be made to match the new standards while maintaining their strengths.

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,602

    He is B or C tier now so better, but can still be buffed more without being a problem. Stop complaining just because you lost a few games because you can instead focus on improving your own game so you don't lose in the future.

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968

    I would be more than happy to discuss the specifics of each nerf, if I could find a complete change log anywhere. I'm not really surprised nobody really remembers he got nerfed as it was always seen as an overall positive exchange.

    I don't think it helps the game though to reduce the skill ceiling by nerfing killers. If you nerf the ceiling, then the average skill of the player base goes down, which is not what you want in a game that you need comfortably 1k hours in to be considered "competent" not even necessarily good at it.

    What needs to happen is that weaker killers are buffed up to where stronger killers sit, and from there survivors can be buffed to account for the new, higher tier killers. This probably makes survivor players uncomfortable to read, but the unfortunate fact remains that survivor changes are going to have 4x the impact, so the systems need to already be in place for killers to succeed before survivors can get changed.

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968

    Wiki changelog isn't complete, thanks though I saw it.

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968

    If I remember right, it came when they redesigned his addons. But that was back in 2.3, so the memory is vague at best. Perhaps I'm conflating PTB notes with actual release notes after that amount of time.

  • twocansofbean
    twocansofbean Member Posts: 200
    edited May 2021

    no more debuff on windstorm. That debuff is now your actual decloak speed. so the debuffs can't stack

  • twocansofbean
    twocansofbean Member Posts: 200

    His his previous windstorm debuff for the decloak speed is now his actual decloak speed.

  • BastardKing
    BastardKing Member Posts: 784

    It's like having a bar you need to straighten, and a bunch of gears that go on it. You need to get the bar straight first, then get the gears attached to the bar in the right position. If you get the gears where they are supposed to go, attach the bar, then try to straighten the bar, all the gears go out of position again, and you have to reset the gears.

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968
    edited May 2021

    What you linked is the wiki for wraith, what it is not is the complete changelog. Its the cliff notes at best, but I don't really think thats the argument at this point. So lets just set it aside.

    You need some strong killers with disproportionately rewarded actions for the skill level involved, that is how new players are able to handle coming into an environment with more experienced players. These mechanics are called FOOS, first order optimal strategies. All they do is create a foothold for a new player. Killers like Spirit, Doctor, Oni, and Freddy roughly fit this bill.

    My suggestion is not what you are saying. I would not release any new killers until the current ones are raised up to be a high tier and relatively tightly grouped compared to now. Once baseline killer role power is established, from there the new reciprocating role power can be delegated to the 4 survivor slots. (This would include buffing/redesigning perks to fit the changing meta of no low rank killers at all.) From then on, yes I would release fairly powerful killers knowing that survivors have decently strong utility tools to deal with them and only need to learn the new skill curve of the killer.

    Fun comes from engagement, engagement comes from the feeling of agency, agency comes from freedom. The more freedom and power a killer has, so too does that translate to the agency a survivor is allowed to have against them. This clashing agency now creates more complex systems of engagement and ultimately leads to fun for both sides.

    While this is a nice analogy, it does not work in a game like dead by daylight. In fact a more apt description to balancing this game would probably be: Trying to hold water in a perfect sphere with just your hands. All the elements you interact with affect each other, pressure, ripples, and waves resonate through it.

    Every killer has their own needs, fixing the game for one would break the game for all other killers. Therefore you have to establish an environment where they can all play to their strengths. You cannot balance strictly by the numbers because the simple matter is that straining for a perfect average assumes the population itself is perfectly averaged, which it never is.

    The obvious answer becomes, in that case, to relieve how painful it feels for survivors to be sacrificed. That vaguely translates into more opportunities to earn survival points, and points overall in the short term, but hopefully through increasing the complexity of the killer role the avenues for earning points can become more numerous altogether. I think most players with enough hours in the game would agree that getting 4Ks or surviving every game becomes super boring and they are pretty much over living or dying mattering to them. Its not about the end, its about the journey of the trial, so using kill rates for balance is just going to make a boring game.

    Post edited by BenihimeWrath on
  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    Even after his buffs, I hardly ever see Wraith. He's in a good spot I think.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    I think his All Seeing Blood and his pink gen aura add-on should swap rarities.

  • NomiNomad
    NomiNomad Member Posts: 3,181

    I can definitely see that. All Seeing Spirit is definitely pretty damn good, but the effect can he accomplished with perks and good game sense.

    All Seeing Blood is infinitely more useful in my experience.

  • Alionis
    Alionis Member Posts: 1,040

    Unless the wiki tells you that a change log is incomplete, it literally lists all changes that happened to something over the course of the years, since the change logs compile all the information available in the patch notes. What more do you expect here?

    You keep pointing to something that is allegedly missing from the wiki, but can't actually name it. Is it possible that you're trying to make something up, since the change log doesn't suit your argument?

  • LilCrapper
    LilCrapper Member Posts: 89
    edited May 2021

    uhhhhh........ j-baited

    I will show myself out. To find a forum post that is actually worth time :D

  • lkalin91
    lkalin91 Member Posts: 150

    People will always find something to complain about, I'm glad to see wraith being played, before his buff I barely saw any ever in my games, and as a mostly survivor player, I don't think he's overpowered, although he is a threat now, but we can't have that of course because most survivors want to dunk on every killer they face. You guys just need to adjust and pay more attention during your games, or put on spine chill in your every build.

  • Lord_Tony
    Lord_Tony Member Posts: 2,109

    wow now we nerfing a ######### killer that was in desperate need for a buff?


    he still isn't viable against SWF as there are only 2 killers viable against SWF.


    So why nerf him? NERF SWF