Tunneling and face camping in every single game
I'm getting so sick and tired of it. Every single match I played today, and most I play on other days, are almost exclusivly tunneler/face camper.
Yes I can run perks for it, yes half the team gets out, but it doesnt mean that it isn't ######### boring as hell and frustrating to boot.
The blood point punishment for camping does not deter it, and something needs to be done, it.
I know that the devs say 'its a valid strategy' but it makes the game blatently unfun when you are the one being tunneled/camped, and when you are not, it makes the game god awful boring because you just sit there doing gens with no pressure no chases.
Comments
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My preposition is to make more killer perks that discourage these activities. I've said this multiple times.
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perks are not balance, and why would a perk deter you when you can just not use it
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I'm not saying this will solve it I'm saying that's the best suggestion I've seen.
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I'm sorry but there's nothing that's gonna be done about tunneling and camping because those are strategies that are part of the game. Yeah it can be boring when it happens to me but I just accept the loss and move on. It's not gonna happen every game.
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tunneling and camping because those are strategies
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I don't know where all of these lobbies are that have continual face-camping/ tunneling killers -- that's almost unbelievably bad luck (I guess).
I play 20-25 hours a week of survivor with anything ranging from a 2-person SWF to a 4-person SWF and pretty much never see a face-camper. Tunneling is occasionaly a hazard (I do run DS for a reason, as do most of my teammates), but while it happens here and there, it's definitely not every match (this is at Red Rank -- my assumption is that the ranks further down, it's much more of a problem.
I played almost 14 hours on Thursday, 8 and a half of which was as survivor. There was the occasional tunnel of either myself or my teammates, and the occasional area camper, but zero face campers. As said, I haven't seen a face-camper in one of my matches for literally months, and I play a TON.
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I play Solo survivor almost exclusively- or else I play with one friend but we don't communicate (so the only advantage is that I won't be left to die on my first hook by lousy team mates).
The past 2 weeks have been atrocious for both of us when it comes to camping and tunneling. I dropped 3 Ranks because of it (from Rank 3 to Rank 6). It's just about every single game now. And I'm not being generous or broad when I describe camping/tunneling. I mean a Killer staying mere paces from the hook and waiting for the rescue, then chasing down the freshly unhooked survivor immediately, even beyond Borrowed Time, even if they eat a DS.
A LOT of these Killers were Rank 1. Deathslinger? Hooks his first survivor and just walks away from the hook, waits and aims. Wraith? Well I have never seen a Wraith who doesn't just cloak a few paces from the hook. Ghostface? Stealths by the hook behind a rock, exposes the unhooked survivor, downs immediately. Huntress? Stands on a hill aiming an axe at the hook.
And who hasn't heard of a tunneling Spirit?
The problem for Solos is not just the fact we can't communicate with team mates around scummy tactics like this, is that it's an guaranteed de-pip because those strangers we're grouped with *immediately disconnect*. Or kill themselves on the hook. Last night we had a basement camping Oni, and 2 survivors disconnected at the same time because they were just done with it. So my friend and I are left in an impossible situation ( 4 generators left, like we're gonna get out). Yet this Oni tries to slug us both. God forbid we get any unhook points.
I feel bad because I'm the one who introduced this game to my friend, and now he's too irritated to carry on. What's the point? It's the same crap game after game.
Solo survivors are just the forgotten filler material between the Killer/SWF. SWF has a tremendous advantage over Killers. So Killers change tactics and get buffed to be able to oppose them (as they should!). But Solos just fall between the cracks, and I often feel like Behaviour is just throwing Solos to the Killers to keep them coming back because compared to SWF, they're easy to decimate.
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Positive reinforcement is better than negative reinforcement. And making perks is a hell of a lot easier than changing the way people decide to play a game
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If a killer camps you......your time on hook shouldn´t advance.....so ez. This way this dog-killers wouldn´t be able to camp and tunnel players.
There is no fun against playing a facecamper tunneler.
Unless gens are repaired or only 2 players remaining.
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It´s a pathetic behaviour but it works. Specially against solo queue survivors.
What kind of game is that when killers hook someone and just sit there like a guardian dog. Patroling is understandeable, of course. But we talk about campering and tunneling.
That "viable" strategy doesn´t allow survivors to play and have fun.
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So I guessed every survivor gets face camped and tunnled every game, and every killer gets the dreaded "bully squad" every game.
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Maybe, just maybe, its because killers feel cornered when gens fly by.
2 or 3 gens gone by the first hook is the standard now on red and purple ranks (hell, i bet all the red rank survivors that deranked to 20 or so are giving new killers hell of a time).
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😴😴😴
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I don't really know what you are trying to accomplish. Yes you are right, I totally agree with you, and since the DS nerf you have tunneling and camping killers every single game. And it gets annoying having to run DS BT Unbreakable SB/DH every single game. There are a few perks that I would really want to try out. But I cant since I'm just gonna get tunneled to death or not get any chases because the killer is focused on tunneling someone else. As a killer I can try different perks, as a survivor I cant. But as I said I don't know what you are trying to accomplish. The devs don't care and by just posting this nothing will change either.
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And then 2 Survivors stand out in the open 50+ meters away, where you can't chase them.
If you go after 1, the other goes for the unhook.
If you don't go after either; the Survivor on the hook never dies.
Which means Killers are forced into giving up the unhook, which could cost them the game.
No so 'EZ', is it?
I mean, unless you WANT easily abused trash mechanics that chase away what few Killer players remain.
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He just said it happened every game
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How about survivor perks that effectively combat it?
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My commentary wasn´t much elaborated, I know. But I said that camping, usually accompanied of tunneling, shouldn´t be allowed in early game.
Of course killers should camp / patrol on late game. I´m talking aboiut early game.
If killer camps with no survivors on the zone, hook progression don´t advance. And they had to seek for another one, patrol, whatever....
It´s so disgusting when facecamp and tunneling start at beggining of the game. This is not how killer should be played. Not fun for anyone (for survivors, at least).
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They already tried, didn't work well.
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Yah this woukd solve the issue of camping but needs to be tweaked so that it doesn't stop when the killers in a chase to prevent survivors from looping the killer around the hook. be prepared for a bunch of killer mains to come say that's an abuse thought becuase removing camping as an effective strategy is abusive to killers.
Possibly also somethjng about how easy it is to address camping by either playing against terrible killers you can loop infinitely, or just do gens(never had it explained how to do gens when on the hook but it keeps popping up)
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Be prepared for this Survivor main to ignore every single fact thrown at them to claim 'Killer mains just want their easy strat'.
You've been told your wrong by multiple people over multiple threads. Give it a rest.
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Thats why I was warning him, but I guess I forgot about the one or two that just come to post asking that no one don't talk about fixing camping (because they don't want to loose their crutch)
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Sure, yeah. We don't want to lose our crutch.
It has nothing to do with player agency, and our ability to confirm kills.
It's in no way you demanding Survivors be given an easily abuseable crutch instead. 🙄
Keep reading that Survivor Rulebook you seem to think 'good Killers' follow like a bible. Keep whining about how 'unfun' Killers camping you are, instead of learning how to git gud.
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Are you saying anything that nerfs or buffs a playstyle or tactic is wrong becuase impacting player agency is bad, or are you saying thay only applies when discussing killer playstyle or tactics being effected?
I ask becuase if you don't player agency as all important for both sides you don't really care about player agency and you are being disingenuous
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Of course killers should chase survivors instead of campering hooks. That´s why the have higher movement speed, bloodlust, a bassic attack and a special power.
Just think about any horror movie. Killers chase survivors? Or is Michael Myers, Freddy and those guys pursuing regular citizens? Excatly! Horror movies don´t work like: "hey man,I´m here camping. I´ve got your friend. So step by so I can kill all your team! King regards. Pigsaw.
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I see. I started playing some months ago. Many things I don´t know about Dbd progression.
Maybe they should give one more try.
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Being genrushed by premades is not fun.
Bully squads are not fun.
Haddonfield - ColdWind - Puzzle Maps offering are not fun.
4 DH + 4 UB + BT + Adrenaline or Irowill is not a funny build to go against, second chance perks + Gen Speed = Actual trash Gameplay.
Click Click + Tbag at Gates when you just pressed M1 at gens is not fun for Killers.
So, do you really want to Talk about tunneling - Camping and Slug? You, survivors, are the reason for Killers to play like that, If you weren't a bunch of M1 spammers, rushing or trying to Rush every damn game, things Will be different.
So stop complaining about the hole you digged by yourserlf abusing Killers.
You want to keep pressing M1 like monkeys? Fine, we Will keep tunneling and camping you until Behaviour decide to fix both sides.
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I don't think it'll change anything... Unless the effects really give a reason for.
I'm a Survivor main. I don't play Killer because I can't find a single lobby with players of my rank. Rank 20, I had green Survivors. Rank 18 is the higher I got. I only have high purple or red Survivors.
Even when it's freaking hard for me, I don't camp and I don't tunnel... But yesterday, I tunneled a Claudette... Full team of very good Survivors, I wanted to get my last sacrifice for the challenge and being out of it.
I felt bad... But I was tired of being matched against red ranks who insulted me in the end game chat. "You're the best Killer we ever seen", the kindest sentence I've read. I felt I wasn't allowed to be new to the role, to learn, to do mistakes.
I understand players who panick and tunnel, who feel outplayed and camp. The issue is more or less the matchmaking for me.
I don't encourage tunnel nor camp. I tunneled only once because I was tired, it was my last challenge... (I had the brilliant idea of doing all the Killer challenge of the current tome in one day.)
Even during EGC, if I hook someone, I don't camp. It's probably stupid... but I go looking for the others. I think it's because I'm a Survivor main and I'm biased. Also, I find it fun to look for the others and see if I can get them before they do anything to save the hooked one.
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That would be more difficult but that could work as well.
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Yeah. I'm a killer main who avoids it even when its the best decision.
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Well you could do a survivor perk that gives then the strength to avoid hook decrease when in the killers presence if he's not chasing someone or a perk that charges up when the killer is around nit in a chase that gives you the ability to regain a lost hook state, or escape from the hook and stub the killer. Just off the top of my head I think those could all work
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Sadly, whatever they try to do, people will find a way to exploit it (old ds when it first came out wasn't that stowing, then people understood that you we're ######### invincible if used with UB) so i think it's fine the way it's.
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Exactly.
My gaming experience is just like you described it.
No one I know plays this game anymore, maybe occasionally 1, because of this “strategy”. When we know the killer had a bad game against a SWF and then takes it out on the solo squad next game.
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get better.. the only thing that i can say.. learn how to loop.. if you have some basic understanding about looping you can go vs better killers.. good killers rarely camp
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The hyperbole in this thread: LOL.
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Okay but counter point to this. Since the DS nerf I have seen a MASSIVE increase of tunnel and camping killers so no that argument doesnt hold up anymore. Either revert D strike so we can actually combat being tunneled and camp (All the nerf should have been is stopping them from touching a gen or hiding in a locker) or find a way to stop them from camping and tunneling with out the use of a perk. cause "Those are strategies" doesnt work with the current pipping system they aren't strategies anymore not since the emblem system was added. Sure it's not happening every game but its happening more than you think it is.
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- No you haven't.
- If you have, it is because a bunch of whining Survivors who were angry they can't use DS to do objectives in the Killer's face chose to stop bringing it. When nobody brings DS the Killers don't get an Obsession (unless some other Obsession Perk is in the game). That means Killers have no reason to be concerned about whom to hit. If Survivors start taking DS again, it will have an offset back to where things were before. This assumes you are right about the increase (I don't think you are).
- There are lots of ways to combat being tunneled, but Survivors are unwilling to use them. Safe rescues, taking protection hits, trading hooks, Borrowed Time, etc. There used to be a thing where Survivors spread those hooks out among themselves to win the game. What I have noticed, both as a Killer and Survivor is a marked decrease in being willing to put oneself at risk in Solo. :) If they do a rescue, they vanish like Ninja as soon as they unhook and make no attempt to protect the person they just rescued. In fact, I've noticed they will unhook with the person they are saving between them and the approaching Killer. I've even seen them use the person they just rescued as a meat shield.
It is the JOB of Survivors to protect each other and prevent Tunneling. It is not the Killer's responsibility to do the Survivor's job for them.
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1-yeah man really dismantled my argument with that one.
2- I mostly see console players so they even use the end game chat (since I live in AUS) so I HIGHLY doubt these console players can "whine" and like I said in my post the better way to nerf DS was to stop survivors working and gens and hiding in lockers cause thats what killers (myself included) had issues with and lastly There was a reason DS was mandatory and you cannot play dumb. You're telling me you've never EVER seen a killer play more tunnely if they didnt see any obsession symbol? (Why do you think BHVR added it to the game as a permanent symbol) and yeah dunno what rock you're living under but yes tunneling and camping has gone up cause funny enough most end game builds dont run D strike anymore. I'm going to choose to believe you don't play survivor all that often.
3-You're joking right? Safe unhooks, taking protection hits you do realize those things do not stop tunneling right? Only 1 thing you said actually stops it and thats BT but guess what man you know what that leads to? A perk becoming mandatory like D strike was. Just like how BT is the only way to combat camping (outside of gen rushing) A perk should NOT be mandatory to stop tunneling or camping. Survivors that use the person they just unhooked as bait are either A)Bad at the game or B)Trolling and yes that should not be encouraged cause thats awful survivor gameplay. But what about people who do play the proper way? Safe unhooks and even bodyblocking? the killer will have 2 choices target the person who took the bodyblock or just go for the person just unhooked spoiler alert that doesnt stop tunneling.
How do survivors prevent tunneling? Am I typing at him in end game chat to not do it again? Am I reaching through the screen and taking control of his keyboard or controller? Should I click my flash light repeatedly? Should I T-bag? Should I play like a toxic player to try to get him to stop being toxic? It seems I have to repeat myself. Tunneling and camping are no longer viable strats (unless its end game then its go for the throat at that point for both killer and survivor) Tunneling and camping gives the least amount of BP and nothing to you're pipping and that fact people are still saying its a strat to use baffles me.....
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Preach my guy. There is a time and place to tunnel and camp. but doing it right from the get go...it's happening more and more.
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Are you actually trying to play victim?
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With Victim you mean survivor? No I just play survivor when a new tome comes out, and yeah, I play soloQ , It Needs to be fixed but is not impossible to play, IMO killer is a lot harder even than solo survivor at red ranks
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My response to this is 'that means there is a problem, if there is a thread like this every single day.'
They changed the old Michael perk that required you to tunnel an obsession at the start of the game inorder to get a bonus, because it was unfun for the survivors. I dont see how this is any different.
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Every game? No.
I say this from experience. No matter how 'fair' I'll play as killer, I will always be blasted for 'tunneling scum' and 'camping trash.'
Survivor recently unhooked runs in front of me while I'm chasing somebody else? I'm tunneling.
I follow a survivor back to a hook rescue? I'm camping.
Survivor heals UNDER the hook? I'm tunneling.
Survivor plays ring around the rosy in shack while survivor is in basement? I'm camping.
Survivor abuses BT? Tunneling.
Urban Evasion near hooks? Camping.
Savior ditches rescue for strong position, leaving me with rescue? Tunneling.
Hook bombing? Camping.
The list goes on. My point is, many times when a survivor bms about tunneling/camping, the blame falls on either their teams bad choices, or their own. I'm not saying hard core tunneling/camping doesn't exist. It does, and it is a frustrating experience, especially in lower ranks where the experience pool is minimal. However, it's much less an issue than let on. It's the same as the constant 'evil SWF' posts. SWFs an issue, sure, but you aren't running into 4 man tac squads every match as the forums would lead you to believe.
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Every game? yes
You can throw up some examples of people calling you a tunneler and a camper when you claim you arent, but that doenst prove anything.
Actually let me be clear, if you constantly change your target mid chase to the one you have already recently hooked, you are infact tunneling. I dont care if you dont think you are doing it, you are.
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If you're near the killer who's already chasing somebody else, then the blame is on you. The killers job is to kill you. If he sees an easier target in his path, then the correct choice is to go for the easier target, especially if the one he's chasing is healthy/strong tile/pallet/good looper.
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Well, decisive strike was nerfed so badly that it punishes to play the game and it is very unfun to use, killers know a lot less are running it so that is why tunneling happens every game. Instead of buffing DS, the devs added the obsession every game but that is no deterrent, killers know less are probably using it now because it is not as required to have the obsession.
Decisive strike needs to be desperately buffed. Games were good when it was meta.
If you look at the powerful killer perks they are all punishment to the survivor with very little to no effort to use. Take a hard look at Tinkerer, killer has to do nothing to get a huge benefit from it. There is simply no reason for decisive strike to have a long list of requirements and punishments for playing the game for it to work. Other than to make it convenient for killer.
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The issue is that survivors abuse everything they can. They actually did implement something to stop camping, but it got removed quickly due to survivors looping by the hook to abuse it. Survivors made their bed, they can lie in it. I'm sorry that you're having bad matches, but nothing can be done about it without it being abused.
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Last time it either stopped or heavily slowed hook progression when the killer was near, can't remember which. Anyways, it was removed because survivors just looped around the hook to make the killer have no way to win other than 4 man slugging a team. If survivors didn't abuse it, we'd have no campers anymore.
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This issues is more of a green/grey rank thing, isn't it? After rank reset I've also noticed almost every killer face camping with NOED (got booted to rank 18 for whatever reason as survivor) because they basically get looped for 4 gens straight if the pick the wrong survivor to chase and most killers at those ranks are too stubborn to drop a chase on purpose.
So they basically get 1-3 kills tops (judging from my games from rank 18 to 14 so far) and then, ofc, just face camp the survivor they got with NOED because they would not get any kills.
In my red rank games as killer I can't face camp even if I wanted to because then people would just gen rush the living hell out of me and escape all escape.
I've rarely encountered a face camping killer around red ranks as survivor before the rank reset. At least not before the EGC.
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