About 6 months since the Moris nerf and the keys remain unchanged

The mori nerf was was pushed into an unrelated hotfix because of the Twins shitstorm happening at the time. A mori nerf at a later time would have caused another shitstorm. They pushed it out when they did not because it took them that long to implement this change but to avoid having to deal with the outcry.

we don't know when "soon'' is though.

The keys will never get changed... Devs can't live without them.

It's so true but the sad part is it doesn't fit their narrative so therefore they're not going to accept that argument

Ignorance is bliss. Keys and hatch create a lot of this game's problems.

I thought keys were unfair too until last night where every red rank killer I played against had iri and purple addons. People keep saying that survivors that bring keys don’t care about the killers enjoyment but the same could be said about killers that bring iri addons every game. Keys are only unfair against killers with 0 addons.

I am hoping the reason it's taking them so long is because they are reworking hatch entirely.

It'd be nice if they just replaced it with a final chase.

Both sides deal with bugs and latency issues.

Well, it's fine to doubt their stats if you have a good reason to, but "well, DS was nerfed" isn't really enough. There are other factors beyond just the balance of DS at play here. The numbers have to be from different patches, for example, so unless they're normalizing for the balance of that specific patch somehow that's probably more of a factor in the kill rate for DS users than DS itself.

Neither side's role is easy and SWF is not as strong as you're making it out to be, especially in public matches.

Old Moris were substantially more busted than old keys:

• Offering slot (unlike keys, Moris can be combined with top add-on combinations and the power differential with other rare offerings is substantially higher than keys with other rare items)
• No available counters / easier and more reliable to use (survivor builds are already fixed by the time they even know there's a chance of a Mori being in play, and plus a killer can almost always re-down the first survivor hooked relatively quickly; if a killer is set on tunneling for an early Mori, a bit of bodyblocking isn't going to stop them; meanwhile, keys have a handful of solid counters and can be planned around from the lobby, or even dodged)
• Larger overall impact on the game (keys change little until the hatch spawns and most frequently save 0 or 1 survivors, whereas Moris can be used at any stage of the game and basically ensure a 3k + hatch or 4k assuming decent matchmaking; Moris nearly always have a large impact on the game, while keys sometimes have a large impact but are often irrelevant; if you escape through the gate, if you escape through the open hatch or die before being able to use the key on the closed hatch as the last survivor, if you die earlier in the match and you're either running a weaved ring or your teammates don't locate your key, if you lose your key to Franklin's, etc. your key did little for you and just took up a slot that could have been filled with a more broadly useful item)
• Higher drop rate in the bloodweb (there are more ultra rare loadout items for survivor than for killer, so keys show up less frequently than Moris)

I'm not saying keys are fine currently. They are inconsistent, but their ceiling is very high and they also frustrate people, so I do think a rework makes sense. I don't think there is any equivalence between the two, though, so threads like this one get a bit tiring. Superficial comparisons of "tHeY bOtH mEaN yOu DoN't NeEd To Do YoUr ObJeCtIvE" and such are ignoring how much stronger Moris were than keys. I realize you didn't say this in your comment, but many people do.

Those teams are going to be strong with or without comms, though. Good luck playing against four solos with meta builds, impeccable looping skills, and tons of game sense. These teams are also vanishingly rare in public matches.

It is extremely easy as killer to redown the first survivor that was hooked. Like, think about it; if you can't down an injured survivor reasonably quickly in a chase in order to Mori them, how would you ever be able to win that match in the first place? You'd have to be thoroughly outclassed beyond the survivors having comms, and at that point matchmaking is the issue, not SWF. BT has a 12 second timer and DS is irrelevant when you have a Mori. Realistically all you need to do is stay somewhat in the vicinity of the hook, close enough that you can get back quickly but not too close that people wait to save, and then zoom back to the hook once the unhook happens. No amount of voice communication is going to stop that. The most they're going to do is buy some time by bodyblocking and forcing the you to hit them, but even if successful this will necessarily come at the expense of doing gens. They're just not going to be able to buy time for long.

Franklin's can work, especially with Hoarder, but I don't think it's a reliable enough counter to justify the perk slots (especially since keys don't both me as killer). I think Franklin's is best when used against medkits, actually, but I digress. You can do a number of things against keys:

• Play well enough to prevent the hatch from ever spawning. Old Moris used to be the best counter to keys, but it's still very much not necessary.
• Tunnel the person with the key, especially once the hatch spawns. Some survivors will loot keys from dead teammates, assuming no weaved ring, but many either won't think to or don't remember exactly where their teammate died and can't justify leaving their gen to look.
• Tailor your loadout to the key; for example, prioritize perks like CI that help in the early game instead of perks like NOED that help in the late game, generally make sure you're running strong perks, and bring an offering for a killer-sided map. To preempt a "well, what about chest keys?", chest keys aren't really a concern at the normal drop rate, even with Plunderer's and coin offerings. Any escapes you get with them are basically paid forward by the time you're spending searching chests instead of doing gens and the perk slots you're dedicating to them that otherwise could have been lengthening chases and speeding up gens.
• Dodge the lobby. In the evenings this only wastes like 20 seconds of your time.

I really do feel that keys are and were a lot more balanced than old Moris, but that's not exactly a hard bar to clear when literally everything in the game was more balanced than old Moris :) I don't even think keys are the best survivor item; I'd give that honor to medkits. One match in twenty a key might allow you to get three people out of a losing match against a brutal three gen and a minority of the time they'll let one person escape who otherwise would have died, but the majority of the time they do next to nothing and just prevent you from bringing a more useful item, like a toolbox or a medkit. They are even more directly counterproductive for survivors some of the time; for example, I've been with many a teammate who has doomed all remaining survivors by leaving through the hatch early in a winnable match.

The worst part about keys right now are the common offerings to spawn the hatch in a specific location imo. That makes it a bit too easy; survivors should have to keep an eye out for the hatch and choose between searching for the hatch and doing gens, not just run to the shack in the late game when the going gets rough.

Lol and thanks though - Sluzzy's perspective is definitely pretty one-sided :)

Chest keys are honestly not a concern. A three-gen situation is one of the few situations where a chest key might give a solid benefit and even then the odds of being in that situation and also getting a chest key are extremely low. Maps have 3 chests by default and chests have a 7% key drop rate. Some of these keys will also be green and can't open the hatch, so the percentage is effectively even lower. For the sake of comparison let's say that there's a 4% chance of getting a purple or pink key; now this is exactly as likely as pulling yourself off the hook. No one's complaining about that, though, and for good reason; it will rarely save one or more survivors, but it's so unlikely and only helpful in such a specific situation that it's not really a concern.

If you're running Plunderer's and stacking coin offerings you can raise your odds quite a bit of getting a key, but this will always be weaker than just bringing a key into the trial; it's just wasting lots of time, offerings, and perk slots for a decent chance at getting something you could just bring into the match and have right from the start. These sorts of builds are useful for farming items, but that's about it. They really just lower your chances of escaping out the gates in the first place, which should always be plan A.

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It is common for one side's build to hard counter another side's build. A survivor runs Iron Will, the killer runs Stridor? A survivor runs a medkit and a healing-based build and the killer is a Plague? A survivor runs Spine Chill and draws a stealth killer? A survivor runs a flashlight and draws a Hag or Wraith? You get the idea - a key being a decent counter against end-game builds is just one in a long line of counters in DBD. It's not a reason to change them on its own. This is especially true given how comparatively weak chest keys are and that killers can adjust their loadout for lobby keys.

Sluzzy is on here spitting logic at these super biased players who refuse to see how vastly different keys and moris are. Made an account to give you props for proving these people wrong while not being disrespectful. Anyone who thinks keys have even remotely the same impact as moris has never played both sides of this game